In modern and scientific age, sometime you need new technology and the most importance of all is time. Having 100 nests in a year and two make hell alot of differences. Why if you know your mathematic (I only have std. six mathematic) that if you increase 2 fold each year that 100 nests really is a big factor. So, having the basic in BH ranching is importance before going into this industry and early is always better. Better location also a must......good consultant make the differences, 100 or 200 nests in a year...or two.

Me? I didn't have a consultant now and the first time when I started BH ranching and that was 10 years ago ......it was easy and we are in no hurry as there are no guild line on how many is good. Now, with some many supermen consultants promising 100 or 200 in one years, I also will appoint one if at the end of the year, I got 100 then I pay or nothing......even 50 nests. How successful a BH will depend on location first then other conditions come into play. Having a 6 stars BH in a bad location will not get you any bird. If you are in the middle building in a row of millionaire BH ranchers' BHs and you are not a millionaire, then there is really something serious wrong with your BH or don't ever go to Genting or you know the result.

I do believe that even like me and if I fail to get result, I will seek a second opinion on it as we can't see our own fault, we need another expert to pin point our mistake. Always, two heads is always better than one.

A point to share,
if all the surrounding BHs ranchers are harvesters, then you will find difficulty in getting new birds but if the surrounding BH ranchers are breeders, then you will it very easy to get new birds. A few of investors that I know only go after BHs with alot on nest and they pay well for the BHs. They are harvesters, they only want fast return for their investment..................all within 5 years. So, don't be surprise that you fail to get birds initially few months if your your surrounding are filled with harvesters and you will have to wait slowly for alien birds to come if your BH is not in the swiftlets flying path.

Above, again are my own opinion and may differ from professional SIFUs.

WahLau......Bro,

It maybe not good but certainly not that bad lah. The sound maybe cheap but shouldn't sound like bat, hahahaha. Never know Pasar Malam Selling bird CD, got to go PM to have a look, long time didn't go PM.

You must really hate the guy to be so so F*** with him. Maybe, just ordinary Sound and E book just for the beginer and cannot be useless as the writer must know something about swiftlets ranching to write about the topic; he can't be writing about chicken farming........Ha ha ha


Remember, I am your friend cos' no want you to F*** me lah..................

Realli ah? There is really ISO BH CONsultant? Or ISO stand for "I Say Only" CONsultant. As I believe the ISO standard is for something esle and not for their ablities in BH nor BN!!!!!! Till this date, onbody can claim that he truly understand swiftlets as this is still a relative new developement and not much research has been done on it. The most research has been done on cave swiftlets and that's is also relatively new............less than 10 years intensive study. Swiftlets have been in the front page because there are cash, and plenty of cash, just like a new gold mine...............who have though of white gold in BH long ago. Most of them are just theory and not facts. We believe that because of that or just like that and so is so or what. Just like someone mentioned "king od swiftlet" or "mother of all mother" . Do you really believe that there are such thing. Onve, I read an article about a nest made by swiftlet king because it very long. Since on of my BH ( already sold) has plenty of those, I know that they are because there isn't enough space for them to make nests and their nests join together to form a long nest and some are more than a foot long. Then, I called them "yu tiao" nest cos they really look like yu tiao, those you buy and eat.

And I was paid less than Rm2K per Kg for them so called swiftlet king's nest!!!!!!!!!!

Again, this is again my humble opinion and little knowledge of swiftlets.

ps: If there is really ISO consultant in BH construction, pls pm me......cos I need one.

I with you...................need not be 20 feet wide as you are not building it in town, then it shall only be 20-24 feets at the most. In your AG land, make them wider so that you can renovate easier and more space for the birds to main main lah.

How big it all depend on your budget and as for me, I rather have 2 normal ones than to have a big 60 by 100 BH . A normal 2 floors BH when full can have more than 4000 nests. What's more can you ask for? So, if 2 BHs, the total shall be 8000 nests if both are successful. Two chances is always better than one. Let say, if one 35 by 70, 3 stories BH if full may extend sideway to make it 70 by 70 later and that I would like to see. Wah...over 100 kgs of nest value at Rm4K......what do you get per harvest?

A dream?.. all millionaires all started with a dream and I hope you success.........

Begging your pardon for not agreeing with you. I believe that it all depend on the area whether they are pure harvesters or breeders. If all are harvesters, then 20 years later, there will never be full house. If all are breeders, The Lord will be please and your dream will come true.

In my town, I explain and encourage them to look toward the future and we are proud to say that we have very good result. If 10 BHs in the area have 2000 nests and allow them to multiply, just add 2 and 2, you will see what will be the total birds in the area in 2 years time. It will exceed the number of new BHs in the area many fold. In a few years, many more BHs will have 2000 nests and those having 2000 nest will have 4000 nests in 2 years time. Swiftlets filled the sky and they are happy and so are we.............going to the bank.

I always explain to all my fellow BHs ranchers starting BHs, to invite all their friends and foes into this industry and they see better result with more BHs in your area. That's was 5 years ago and since then, none of those friends that I have spoken to have any regret. They all have over 3000 nest each. Only those far away from the existing BHs see lesser result. Oyes, the onl complaint are those uncooperative ranchers that volume up their sound creating complaint from residents ....all due to advice given by CON sultants that loader is better and one KiSu type having over 3000 nests in 4 years fearing that new BHs will steal his birds. Very stupid, his bird is still in his pant...hahahaha

They must remember to allow the birds to breed as I told them that God will punish them for killing the hand(swiftlet) that feed us. Now, everyone of them are buying more houses and lands to be converted to BHs.

Above are for my believers and if you don't agree, my apologies as I spoke sincerely thru my years of experience and only want to share my little ideas on how to be a successful ranchers.

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Added on August 26, 2008, 9:42 pmAgree, very cheap and can you recommend your contractor to us as we are hit bad by our contractors here charging so high.

Don' tell your contractor that he's cheap so we may get same rate like you do.


This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 26 2008, 09:42 PM

Allow me to expalin to you why? The reasons are because

In town, it is very safe from predators like owl and its gang..........once they enter, you are six months back from when you start. In town, the only predator is man but then they wait until you have hundreds before they start, that will cause you one or two harvest of nests; your birds are still your birds. In estate, my friend start one in his estate and obviously it is stand alone one. Even before completion of the BH, swifltets started to enter and wahlau, after 2 months after completion, there are about 10 nest and plenty of bird shits around. Then, come the trouble, the nests drop to the ground and there are sign of other shits. Tried so hard by putting light at the entrance and other safety features, till now 8 months, onl 6 nests only...so you know why?

I strongly disagree with you as I am in this buz for many years and so have all my closed friends and we all are doing well in this industry and the only worry now is the government and what lie ahead with their policy. I like doing BHs in town as so far I am happy with the result and the returns that I get, the only problem is that I am allergy to tick/mite bites. And it is giving problems and to apply insect repellent is bad for the birds. I wish no harm to them cos they give alot of wealth.

If your location is good and that you have no bird, you can get some consultants who are willing to do your work and only paid by the number of nests you get after a year or two. No sweat for you as they will do all the job and you will pay them after the due date. Win win situation would you think so as it guarantee you success and that you will see result. No sleepless night for you and leave all the problem to the guy as you will have a contract with him to ensure of your success. Also, need not come up with any more money as all will be taken care of.

If your BH in town is for sale and in good location, I will get you buyers for the BH, building and renovation done so no loss to you again.

I have so many friends, BH ranchers here eying for good location or BHs for sale. So, I humbly don't understand you or your worry unless it is because of the govt. policies wich I am worry as my many BHs will be affected as all are in town.

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Added on August 28, 2008, 5:15 pmI love your suggestion but with some reservations

1. What is the correct time as some of my birds returning even after 8.00 pm and shoot out as early as 5 am
2. What if the gate jammed and you are out station or over sea.
3. What if there is no electricity
4. What if the timer's time is off.
5. so many what if, I rather not try if what if.


Just to tell a joke, my house auto gate broke down more than 6 time for the past 4 months and now it again broke down and I have to hand push the gate (no cheap steel gate cos I paid over 10K for it)..........so if this happened to the BH's auto gate, how are you going to hand push the gate open and if you are not careful, you will end up like the guy in KT. Humdy Dumdy has a great fall......................

This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 28 2008, 05:15 PM

First and foremost, I am no consultant or CON sultant, just another human being trying to help fellow human beings to live have a better life; like doing God's Work in a different way....hahahaha. As least, that what I think of myself and need not your yelling on this.

In my BH dictionary, consultant mean
1. A person who knew alot about swftlets and their habit
2. Has alot of experience in renovating BH and have into alot of BHs.
3. Has good track records of successful BHs.

The most importance of all, he must be lucky. Do you remember one of our formal finance minister whom they called the man with golden fingger. Any share that he pointed, up goes the share..................so it the consultant, any BH that he build, swiftlets will enter.

Coming to your second part, I am also successful in BH but then I am not half a consultant as I can't differentiate Meranti from other wood. Just that any wood of no smell is a good wood. Also, I don't even hammer well. So far, I am lucky and my methods work but for how long. I just think in the bird's angle and point of view when I am doing my own BHs. Alot of common sense and sweat and love for the swiftlets and hope for wonder.

In life, there is never easy money..............just much lesser risk and better returns if you are successful. Even prostitution is not easy, my friend.
In this industry, you still have your main capital (BH) and with the appreciation of value of building and land, you still make only lesser. Any failed BH these days still make when they sell.................

Bro,

Next a boring story..........

If you come our town, talk to all those in the buz and you will be see the light and I bet you will become one of us. I am not speaking on other town where the success rate is only 30% ( breeders area). Here, our success rate is over 70%. As I told them and shall repeated said again, this is still the best industry where you make alot if you succeed but if you fail, you still don't lose. If your BH is a failure, there are consultant who are willing to take the risk to correct your mistake......just pay what you gain after two years...but make sure that you read the agreement well; jangan kena tipu, bro....

I have a friend who have a BH 3 years ago and did all the renovation himself. He has been telling all that his BH was OK until a year ago, he came to see me and seek my advice. He requested my help to solve his 0 BH but I told him that I have no time to do consultantion work but will help him. I recommended a consultant to him and we went over to his BH for fault finding...........his BH was beautiful done and the only fault that I can see is the entrance hole. I smiled at the consultant signaling a easy job.

He got slaughter by the consultant paying Rm30K for it but then till this day, he still look up to me for advice and do you know the reason.........he is now the proud owner of a 120 nests BH , just a year. I will expect at least 400 nests next year.

[quote=Ana.kepong,Aug 29 2008, 12:03 PM]

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Added on August 28, 2008, 5:15 pm
I love your suggestion but with some reservations

1. What is the correct time as some of my birds returning even after 8.00 pm and shoot out as early as 5 am
2. What if the gate jammed and you are out station or over sea.
3. What if there is no electricity
4. What if the timer's time is off.
5. so many what if, I rather not try if what if.
Just to tell a joke, my house auto gate broke down more than 6 time for the past 4 months and now it again broke down and I have to hand push the gate (no cheap steel gate cos I paid over 10K for it)..........so if this happened to the BH's auto gate, how are you going to hand push the gate open and if you are not careful, you will end up like the guy in KT. Humdy Dumdy has a great fall......................

[/quote]
Hi West Wing,

I agreed with you and indeed i asked him also the same concerns but anyhow this is what he feedback and I guess it is still the best solution for those BHs at plantation or suffer with OWL issue
1. What is the correct time as some of my birds returning even after 8.00 pm and shoot out as early as 5 am

******The small gate must design with a small hole which fit the size of swiftlet at the central of the gate to allow swiftlet fly in and out in case the auto-gate is faulty or for those birds returning late after 8pm*****

2. What if the gate jammed and you are out station or over sea.


****** Same as above and he told me once he was oversea for holiday and the gate was faulty. But when he came back to observe and he found those birds already adapt to the close gate situation and fly in and out smoothly via the small hole at the central of the small gate. Of course the hole is a bit small and the new birds may not like it or enter your BH but this is only happen once in the blue moon (according to him only one time faulty in 3 years time). Please note this is to prevent the owl to enter during night time and therefore certain level of sacrificaton must be considered la******
3. What if there is no electricity.

****** Good question and the small auto-gate motor is also come with backup battery which can be last for 2 years (depend how frequent of the black out of course). So this is not an issue la ******
4. What if the timer's time is off.

****** Same as above Item 1, birds can still enter via the small hole******

5. so many what if, I rather not try if what if.

Just to tell a joke, my house auto gate broke down more than 6 time for the past 4 months and now it again broke down and I have to hand push the gate (no cheap steel gate cos I paid over 10K for it)..........so if this happened to the BH's auto gate, how are you going to hand push the gate open and if you are not careful, you will end up like the guy in KT. Humdy Dumdy has a great fall......................

****** This auto-gate is customize and just a small motor with small grill to close the DK hole. It can be easily push using your hand or design with kind of connected string to pull when it is faulty. With this will help to improve the safety concern******
Lastly....."what if this, what if that" ..........Well, i just want to share my experience which i know here and hope it can help lor. I always believe all kind of problems must have a solution and Don't simply give up so easily when you face the problem

[/quote]


Thanks for the answer.....my apology if offended but just that some of my friends having BHs far away from town and some are successful and not having the problems but a few do. I am no owl expert but I think if the hole big enough for the swiftlet to fly in is big enough for the owl too. Can you enlighten me if I am wrong. I would like to expand my BHs out of town because out of town mean out of trouble....... just hire some guns when I do nests collection as it is not safe even in town..

You must inslalled the auto gate at your BH and I may like to see how well it works if OK...........

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Added on August 29, 2008, 10:18 pm[quote=kseng_99,Aug 29 2008, 09:15 AM]
I can tell you one of my relatives own 6 unit of bird house , 5 of them already operate
almost 10 years and each of them can be harvesting average 700-800 pieces of nest per monthand he started the no 6 bird house 4 years ago now only maintain at 100++ nest ,various of technique had been house but still same .Luckily he is wealthy still can tahan but how about newbie . The story seem boring but need to inform the people don’t every day just said this business is how good and ask people to put in their money it will make the newbie suffer only.

You mentioned your town where is it ,I just wish to have a look, how good is there but truly I can tell even how good is your place I also won’t start my bird house now especially at this moment..

[/quote]


I may know you relative and maybe you, too. kseng_99, PM me if you wish to share anything or discuss anything or any thing friend to friend with no hard feelings..................love to speak out and express my views without any ill feelings or intentionally offending anyone. Please remember everything that I wrote are what I believe to be the truth and not bu the truth so help me God. Make me happy just talking about the birds and the nests.............. not selling anything or selfish recommendations. We are friends sharing our views and experiences ........so, pls no hard feeling and are we still pal? Will be at Genting Convention on 31/12/2008 and are you there?

This post has been edited by West Wing: Aug 29 2008, 10:18 PM

I just attended the Genting Swiftlet Conference (Wholeseller, I think) and it's boring. There suppose to be a question and answer session in the afternoon and it was missing maybe because after lunch, everyone gone to casino. Me and my friends were waiting there like stupid.

Huge attendance but poor presentation and nothing new............I should have gone to the casino but then, Rm600 paid....must try to get money worth.

Anyone there? What your opinion?

I am hunting for good external and internal birds sound........any recommendation? Yes, Mr Phang was still doing his job there and by the way, where is Indo do you get good CDs (birds call). I haven't been to Indo, safe, eh? Most of my birds sounds all outdated and new birds like new G. guys go for those new sound, maybe hip hop or I don't know? Me, the most I know are the a go go or cha cha even the off beat, too. hahahahaha

My old birds make their own version now and I don't even put on the amp, they create their own music and it's loud. This give me another question, any electronics expert around can provide me with some sort of information on what good recorder and mic. for recording swiftlets sound.....not too expesive but must be clear and nice. I believe alot of readers would also like the informations.

Lastly, I heard some friends told me that they buy CDs from Indo as little as Rm25, is it true?

Good day to you, too but with your problem, your day isn't good,,hahahaha just joking, my friend

Book is only good when you are newbie but then as you progress, you don't go to the book for advice, you seek out friends from this industry. If you have fellow ranchers near your area, have a discussion with them on your BH's problem and more heads is better than one.

Books are only good if you don't understand the ABC of swiftlets after that, they are useless....otherwise, the writer need not write books, they are't bother to sell their book for profit, they got plenty of cash, if their methods work so well. It's not that their methods doesn't work because different places, the swiftlets respond differently. So, the best advice are from your nearby BHs owners if they are not selfish.

Are you a fisherman, and if you do, you will understand that different places, you use different bites to catch fish and so are the BHs. One sound can't be apply to everywhere and one perfume also the same. So sad to hear that your BH fail, and sometime it maybe you, keeping and disturbing the birds.
Once done, leave the place and observe from far as you don have smell that they don't like and are afraid of. So, take everything into consideration and another friend around maybe able to pin point your mistake.

You didn't give any of us case history.....like the area and surrounding, plans and bld structure, conditions like tem. and light and hum. and others.
That's why it is difficult to help you to solve unless the guy is there to have a close examination of the BH. If your surrounding are good area, no reason for failure cos it's sooner or later and when, it depend on you....again.

BH success doesn't come easy but it is not difficult if you hit the right tune and bang, you are on the way to the bank. One of my friends, I have presuaded him aver two years to build a BH and only recently, he did build on and now he is talking of building another one less than 3 months. Why, his BH has over 20 nests already....and he is a happy father.

Last advice from a humble guy and that's me, think like a swiftlet and see from the bird's point of view and you shall see birds. Above are my personal point of views and lf any experts here don't agreed, it's OK and I am only half can full rancher only.................but if your BH later became successful, a cup of good coffee that what I need to Yam Seng with you.

"Getting birds to stay are never easy, once they have a family, kepping them out will be more difficult.

Tell your wife that you will be true just like the swiftlet...............if she understand, till death will keep you away from your home".

Answer your questions


1. So far, all of my BHs is build around other BHs or my own. Do you know that if your next door is having 4000 nests, the total of YB flying out every years from this BH is 24,000 NBs and if you fail to draw any, you must be very unlucky. If the location having 10 of these successful BHs, then 1+1=2, comes to 240K birds, then how do not get any bird unless some thing's wrong with the BH?

Successful one are not perfect one, do you know that one of my successful BHs don't even have bird sound nor perfume nor anything to draw them in....and they still keep increasing and increasing and one day it will get too uncomfortable and all the young one will move to the neighbouring BHs but the old birds will remain.

Not really but then if no increase in birds will require a change of sound, prefume or modification if required. I strongly disagree with any changes of sound when the birds still increase. Those old birds will be yours forever even if you try to chase them away. There are some reasons if they should go away and sound and smell are not the reasons at all.

Why, there are many reasons behind them and I will not discuss them here as they offended alot of consultants and BHs owners. Rather, we do what we preach and since we are successful, we knew that we are right no matter what experts think otherwise. Polutions, noices and environments are only few of the reasons. Then, when once they are there, nothing will stop them from returning even after the BH has burnt down.

Above are my true observations from years of ranching and again they are my humble opinion and experiences to share without any obligation nor gain. Anyone may object and comment on my little long observation and little understanding of swiftlets.

Dear All,

someone just PM me a long F*** message about my opinions and remarks over this forum and maybe I will forward the message to all to see. What I wrote are my opinion and no offend to any Datos or anyone. I don't even care if they don't allow BHs as my own opinion, most of them only care about their interest first; I make my money already but I am only here to help if I am needed. Not stepping on any Nests buyers toes or any consultants pant.

So, I don't care whether you like me or not for I just want to be helpful and I speak the truth....no point lying. What is good is good and bad is bad, so be it. The writer know me and tell me so and so what, anyone want to know me personally may PM me and be my personal friends. I just don't use my real name, not because I am afraid but because everyone do it and use it.

I don't even fear God for I did no wrong and God be my witness

Here, we have no problems getting S-66 for repair but if you need address, pls. PM me if you still haven't got anyone to help and I will forward the address and details to you to contact them on how to repair your S-66. Problem with all Amps is that in most cases, you have the short circuit the tweeters wire and it will destroy the I/C and the coil. Smoke residue smell and before connecting the amp again, make sure that none of your tweeters is short circuited and rectified before connecting them back.

Anyway, will only be back by Saturday as I will be away for a holiday.

Just back and glad to know that you have a repairman. He should be able if he has the parts.........

Anyway, just let us here know, a few brothers here do sell the S-66 and may even offer to help to repair it and obviously with service charges lah.

S-66 is quite reliable if you do not short circuited it. I am not in the BH buz but just a fellow rancher; so what suggested are my basic common senses and believe.

From my humble opinion, the middle is the best location but it is the most dangerous of all. You may fall over therefore, other choice will be prefer.

Too end of either corner is not idea but then you need to allow a certain length for runaway into and after ...........this is necessary for new bird to have easy escape in case of danger therefore giving the birds some assurance and confident to enter. Where, you decide but make sure that something is done to prevent you from falling into the hole. Never put the hole too close to the wall as it obstruct the flight of the bird and also the heat generated from the wall. All aspects must be consider like the light, wind and the heat and also the bird's flying pattern.

The birds will normally stay in the upper floor cos it is safer but as time goes by, more birds will stay at the lower floor as the temperature is much constant and humidity remain too.

However, the above are my own suggestions thru my little experience and little knowledge of swiftlets which are for you to consider if it works for you.


Meanwhile, happy ranching and good luck cos' you need plenty of it in swiftlet ranching..........

Feasible.......OK, as where there are birds, there shall be nests but personally, I never like near the sea, it's too windy and salty to be successful for BH but then near padi field, that's a good location. Problems are how to pest control and worse human control and I mean thief lah. Near the sea may take some long long time to generate good income but then once there, nothing can stop your BH from expanding as the sea is your playground and the sky is the limit. And the padi field your backyard........Ayoi!!!! good fong Sui.......from Foong Sui Li, your's truly.

If the land is free and it a bird area.......can try but need to buy, for me, I rather not invest and will find a better location such as near river instead of sea and near town instead of kampong unless you are staying there..........again, that's my own view for there are many great SIFUs around and I am only a talkative .......know little but talk aloooooot type. I give my comment as since no one did so so I hope you can finalise and conclude it yourself.

I KM away and that's far ......no problem already and I was thinking near the sea and that mean by the beachlah.

So, best of luck to you new undertaking and will your sky be all black (with swiftlets of course) and your BH be white (Nests of course) in a few years time. Costing and it all depend on location and the price defer by alot at different place. The best way is to get afew quotations and you decide later. You may want to try the LCM type of bird house cos it's cheaper, faster and strong. Also cooler but I haven't try it, just heard from others on the way of building BH. LCM was introduce at this forum by one SIFU and I forget who lah?

"Protection against tigers and elephants are more easier than Human kind".