Hi West Wing,

No offence taken. I am merely looking to meet some fresh new faces that is all. Yes, I do deal with wholesalers most of the time but it always pays to widen your network. Nothing to lose, right? I would have to say that I have never seen Cave Nest Dealers having a forum such as what you have here. Plus, our numbers are few and far in between.

I would think that you need to read what I mentioned slowly. I did not mention 1,000KGs at RM4k. I said the caves are harvested at 4 times a year.

In terms of cave nests, we do have the primary colors of white, red and yellow and of course the cheapest of the lot, Black Feathered Nest and Grass Nest. You really don't need to clean them to find out what is the color, right? If you did, then it means the quality of the nests are certainly with more than 40% dirt content. This only happens to nests harvested during dry seasons.

Of course the challenge is to keep the nests as clean as possible. Unlike all of your house nests, we cave dealers have to contend with dirtier natural conditions. So cleaning is a pain with more than just feathers but also dust and dirt. So we do have cleaning sessions held usually about less than a month before harvest. It is the usual things like cleaning out the faeces and putting some sulphur around to make sure the least rodents and predators are around. Not sure about other owners but this is what we practice.

One thing though, I have always wondered what would happen if I installed a generator and have a sound system to call the swiftlets. Would I be able to get more birds to my cave instead? Plus, since the cave is in a remote area, I would get to play it 24 hours a day without disturbing anyone except the animals in the forests but would that be chasing the birds away instead since they can't sleep. Haha. Just thought of sharing that bit.

Anyway, I would love to hear more views of the current market.

Thanks and regards.

Mr.Vowel 228:

Much better but still far off a perfect one.  I will point out couple of things here (doesn't mean the rest is OK).  You don't need 2 small nesting-room entrances on the 3rd floor.  Cut to one large door-like entrance and put it on same side of the staircase (towards the South).

Next close the interfloor entrace from the dog kernel to half, to be located on the North side.  This way sunlight will be diverted away from the nesting room.

That is about as far as I can go.  You know what?  Go in swiftbuild or uncle Westwing in PERSON.  Only those who you see in PERSON may slip out some secrets.  Go in person, ask, beg, cry; I don't know how you do it, as long as it works.  They might sit down one hour with you and that will be good enough.  You must promise to them you will never reveal the design secrets to anybody, especially TO THE NET. 

Better, go to other parts of Malaysia, Thailand or Indo' to see BH owners.  Ask, beg, pay or do whatever to get to SEE INSIDE his BHs.  After many houses (more than 5 preferably) and you will start to get the ideas of a successful design.

About the 10 guidelines I think I might be able to translate cause this is not from my direct Shifu.  However I don't think many here will benefit much, cause the guideline only 2 pages long.

Good luck.

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Added on September 26, 2008, 3:39 pmHere u go, an article from a Thai guy's blog:

Swiftlets Ask Me to Write:

We are the swiftlets and you are the human, the human who always beat little birds like us.   Anyway we are happy that many of you build house for us.  As long as we have places to breed our kind, we don’t mind if you would take our nests away.  However now that you want to build a house for us, we like to give you some guidelines to build a successful birdhouse, so we can benefit from that too.

First of all, the smell.  The first day we see this world, after 22-28 days of hatching period, we can only smell.  And the first thing we smell is bird droppings smell.  Since the day we were born to the day we grow up, this very strong smell is so familiar to us.  So if you want to build a house for us, please make the house smell EXACTLY like the place we came from.  Then we might visit and stay with you, providing that our existing house is kinda full or something happens to our house (because we live in flog and we love to stay close to our parents and our flog).   So if you can make the SMELL right (to smell like swiftlet droppings), you have passed the first test.

Secondly, the In and Out holes.  Entrances and exits are not the matter of sizes; they can be small or large don’t matter much, as long as we can comfortably go in and come back out.  Some of you try to cut the light to the nesting room by putting a partition in the roving area, and some of your partition is too close to the entrance and thus make us difficult to maneuver .  Some of you use the dog kernel type and hack a hole for us to go down.  This type will be acceptable only if the dive down hole is big enough.  We like you to try to become swiftlets like us for a day, and try to maneuver down the hole yourselves.  Some of us got knocked in the heads or the wings with this dive-down entrance edges, as we have no disc brakes to slam on.  Therefore, in and out hole’s size must be enough for us to turn in with ease.  If you can do this you have passed the 2nd test.

3. The bird call sounds.
We live in flogs as we do feel safe with many of us around.  Therefore the bird call sound you use must have clear sound representing many of us in the house (do not use the “solo” sound).  We know you trick us, but we don’t mind as long as the sounds make us feel comfortable and safe.   That’s why we make nests close to the tweeters in the house.  So install many internal tweeters is preferable to us.   We are telling you the truth about sounds here, while many of you still trick your own kind, saying my external sound is better than your external sounds, whatever.  The truth is, the external sound is merely a tool to advertise to us that “Hey, there is a BH here”.   We only wish those sounds coming out to our ears replicate EXACT sound made by our kind.  No jazz, no rock, no echo, just pure, natural sounds.

4. The planks.
We like medium hardness, no odor planks to cling on.  Many grooves type is better.  We prefer 6-8inches width with 1 inch thick.  Do not worry about merranti if you couldn’t find it, since we were in the cave before and there were absolutely no merranti in the cave.  Make them sealed tight to the ceiling the better as we feel safer and more secured.  Lot of spaces to cling for my friend would be perfect.  If you can do this, you pass the exam no.4.

5. The Temp.
Do you know that we also feel hot and exhausted during hot days in the sky?  Was it not for our feathers we would have become toasted swiftlet in mid-air.  Therefore pleasssse try to make your house cool, so we can come back in to REST comfortably.  You know? Not like toasted in mid-air and come back to oven at home!  27-29 degree is preferable.  With this temp, our feather won’t fall down when we make nest and the nests shape, size and softness will be good too.  This is the 5th test.

6.  Humidity
Humidity of 80-85% is ideal.  With this humidity our kids in the nest feel comfortable as their skins won’t be too dry, and they won’t feel too thirsty very often.  That allows us to stay longer off the house looking for food; don’t need to come back every 3-4 hours.  The humidity still keeps our nest from becoming too dry and crispy.   Adequate humidity also helps reducing temp.  That’s the 6th test.

7.  Darkness.
Darkness makes us feel safe.  We recommend you to make it as dark as possible.  Light in the in-out hole is all right, as long as it’s dark where we stay.  This is very important and we hope you pass this 7th test.

8.  Predators
We are small birds and we don’t like to be hunted.  We love our babies and we will go crazy if something were to happen to our babies.  If your house has predators and those hurt our kids, we will turn our back to your house FOREVER.   Therefore if you help us by getting rid of all predators in the house, you will pass the 8th test.

9. The Location
We love houses that are close to the vegetation area.  Forests, , plants, woods or canal or river area are all good.  The water area for us to wash, drink and play should not be too far away from your house.  If you build a house in these area, chances are many of us will visit you.

10. The size of the house
The size don’t matter much because the more important is the design and the above tests.  You must meet the above 9 criteria in order for us to stay in your house.   Small house is not a disadvantage as long as inside you make it roomy enough for us to fly with ease.  Circle left of right freely, dive-down or fly up with ease.  If you can do this you pass the 10th test.

We have told you what we have in mind.  If you pass all 10 tests you will be in good shape.  The day you start calling us you must feel totally anxious, extremely happy when many of us come close to your inlet hole, and extremely miserable when not one of us play close to your hole.  Don’t worry.  Just check if you have passed all the test and you must give us sometimes to visit you and check the conditions in your house.  If the conditions are good and we decide to stay, we will see our nest base in no time, and you will smile at last. 

That's it, the article.  Hope this benefits some.

Now... good luck to you, the human.

Hi Everyone !

I got a house far from river 2kms & the the size is 4metre x 12 metre, can I build BH with this size & how many kgs can I get for harvesting time ? Can anyone tell me please, thanks

Hi swiftbuild ! what is your blog please, thanks

My next door shop house with human stay inside also kena summon le ......... seem like Segamat Majlis too hungry for money la i think ........... Check other neighbours they only disturb by cricket sound only........... Why cricket never get summon le.......... 
Two years ago, sometime in mid 2007, when everybody was guessing when Barisan Nasional would declare the General Election, all of the sudden; Pak Lah declared an immediate hike of 30% in salary across the board for all the Govt and civil servants without any request from related parties. It was speculated that the GE was nearing as this was the usual gimmick of BN with hidden intention to bride over the votes of the Govt servants.

In Malaysia, there are no less than 140s Majlis. Prior to the hike in salary, most of the time, many of these Majlis were already in deficits due to poor management, inefficiency, corruptions and all sorts of malpractices which all Malaysians know. These Majlis were practically survived on borrowed loans from the Federal Govt. The salary portion alone ate up sometimes more than half of the revenue yielded in. With the sudden 30% increase in the salary, the financial situation of those badly managed Majlis became worse. It was like snow added onto ice.

In order to increase the revenue, one of the fastest ways is to increase the numbers of summonses. Some of the Yang Di Pertua of the Majlis even gave summon quota to the enforcement officers to be met every week. They even openly discussed and approved in the Majlis meetings. This caused a limbo in many townships with complaints from all businesses and public as summonses were issued discriminatingly. All the YBs and Ahli Majlis faced bombardments from the public. An example is a hawker’s license fee is only RM 100 to 200 per year, but the amount of summonses he received in a year cost him a few thousand. This is also one of the main reasons that invited dissatisfaction and fury from the people on the Barisan Nasional regime that caused the famous 308 GE tsunami against them.

In fact, till today, not only Segamat BHs facing the half yearly summons, but practically, most other Majlis especially those still under BN with BH license not issued yet are practising it. This could be the main reason why most Majlis are still reluctant to agree to issue BH license. Just imagine, a normal BH license causes averagely RM200 to 300 per year. If they don’t or purposely delay to issue license to legalise your BH, they can simply give you a few summonses a year cost you more than a thousand even your BH does not cause any nuisance or complaint. They just tell you that you operate BH “tanpa kebenaran or lesen” and that is enough to squeeze your balls. To us, our BH is the Golden Goose. But in the eyes of these Majlis, we, the owners are their Golden Geese or their walking ATMs.

Dear Brother Tong:

With the present gloom & doom over the severe economic downturn, I personally don’t feel that there is much hope for obtaining license to operate BH soon in Johor particularly.

Presently, it remains unclear which department should be giving out the approval of BH, local council? They are only in charge of building & renovation plan approval & business operation licensing & assessment collection. The good farming practice of protected animal like swiftlet & harvesting of BN are not come under their purview. All this involve other departments like Perhilitan, kesihatan, perhutanan,….etc etc etc.

The official involved will highly likely capitalize on these guidelines ambiguities and take opportunity to enrich their coffers by issuing summons or requesting for vitamin M injection for settlement. Ang pow during CNY is a good way to foster business rapport ma!

So my friend, as they are freezing the BH license application in Johor, why should we put up the application to them? By submitting the application to them, we are informing them that we have a BH in pipeline and by doing so also inviting them come to trouble us, right?

Don’t put hope on whatever association, if they are capable, they should have outperformed other states’ association. Don’t hope also for the license from the authority, as they can always take it back when the new rang undang-undang come out, also the point is as far Johor state is concerned, it is given only to some selected few, period.

We have no choice but to face this uncertain time independently and “berdikari : berdiri di atas kaki sendiri”. This happens in Bolehland! Banzai!

I would be most happy to stay low, low, low, so that they won’t be able to catch me.

I have created a discussion group to discuss the guidelines. It can be viewed here :

http://groups.google.com.au/group/SwiftletHouseGuideline/

I have kept it private for now so that only interested parties could join. I hope to have a few managers who can approve requests for membership. As I can't be online the whole day different people can come in at different time of the day and make the approval. 

The guideline uploaded by ChanK can also be found in the file section. What I had done was to upload page by page and it is easier to download page by page.

I will be starting 1 thread for each guideline and anyone can contribute the appropriate input to each of the guideline.

Government officials, interested parties, YBs etc. can all be invited to join the discussion. It would be useful dialogue if the relevant government officers are encouraged to join.

I hope harry can also contribute. He has a lot to offer and contribute. Let us not because of our narrow interests become blinded to what is right and decent.  Let him have his say and perhaps then we chould understand the man a lot better.

The group is not mine....it belongs to all of us and this is why I hope to have as many managers as possible.

Hope you folks will make use of it.

Swifbuilt says.
"I suggest the discussion should be here so that more will know about it rather on a specific group that not known to many. Furthermore it seemed like it is specially created for few to thrash their ideas that is what the Garis paduan has been doing all this while without letting or inviting any related associated and planning it quietly.

It is time to create publicity. We want everybody to know that what the gov is doing doesn't benefit all and what they are doing is blind leading the blind.

A discussion should be transparent and easy excess to all!We shall all share out views and comments @ public forum as personal discussion groups or blogs"..
Agreed 100% as someone once told me that if one want to post negative comments in his blog, go and open your own discussion blog!!!!!
So, you see that there are only one sided comments on personal blog or so called discussion forum is only one sided story.....you only see what he want you to see.

Feel free to visit other sites on swiftlets but post your comments here as we all share and nobody can edit your comments except you. Once reaching 250...open another one, shouldn't be a problem with us, can't we?? So, remember before the golden 250, Create a new discussion forum and we all migrate there........All for one and one for all.

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Added on February 14, 2009, 3:28 pmchiongguo,

Chank said  you are H or H is you so what is the matter actually...this is a public forum and everyone has the right to post his view but wrong posting get afew shot in his ass....sorry for bad manner.

Even if H is to post some good news here, aren't we happy that he posted?
Chank is not wrong to advice us to be wary of H and Chiongguo may have his reason to be offended....stay focus on  our problem and this is not the right time to fight between ourself as we have to prepare for the battle ahead.

As for Sarawah, Sabah need to help in the coming massacre cos the next state will be Sabah if Sarawak is easily defeated. Need not LauTze to teach us that. If the country Association doesn't come out with a workable and friendly formula, then form your own working committee to prepare for war........Arrows, tanks and fund and  most importance of all, legal opinions from Lawyers and Professionals. If one BH come out with Rm1000, then we may even be able to engage a Queen lawyer; chicken feed compare to the amount of money  we spend building BHs not to mention our sweat and blood.

Above my personal opinion only.

Greetings, I've not been posting for quite a while but still actively following every posts here. Giving my opinions and 2 cents through PMs and emails to members. Still active "behind the scenes" lah. 

It has been 2 years since I first started the thread. A lot of things happened. Many many people come and go. Many old timers turned behind the scenes. Although one of these days these old time people not so active in posting but they are the people who keep this thread alive in the early days when the post frequency was less than 5 posts a week. Hardly get any feedback in short time.  Today our thread gets over 500 viewers daily and even got name in Penang SMI report as one of the most popular swiftlet discussion forum.

How this thread become popular among ranchers maybe because of 1 word. Freedom of speech. Any member can voice out their opinion freely. No need to post own personal photo in order to be a member. I'm still blur of the purpose of some forum need members to use their own photo as avatar.

It been 2 years now the V1 topic almost come to the end of its lifespan here. V2 thread will be started soon and I will personally do the closing ceremony for V1 before it reaches 2500 posts. A closed thread will normally remain for 2-3 months before the admin remove it. Any important point can be brought up at V2 even it's already discussed in V1.  Engineer Lee has saved all the important posts in V1 total up to 300mb. My 2 cents - compile into Adobe PDF format will save a lot of size.

Be nice to the birds they will be nice to you too.