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 LYN Power Tools Discussion V2, Bosch, Makita, Dewalt, Dremel etc

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blanket84
post Mar 2 2021, 08:22 PM

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Hello sifus. I’m planning to buy a power tool mainly for wall drilling to hang frames, mirror, wall clock & etc and to assemble furniture like IKEA’s.

Which brand and model should I go for? Preferably established brands, not China ones. And cordless. Budget probably around RM500.

This post has been edited by blanket84: Mar 2 2021, 08:22 PM
blanket84
post Mar 2 2021, 08:41 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 2 2021, 08:34 PM)
Three questions.
1. What wall material? Concrete/RC/AAC block or just normal red clay bricks (exclude concrete beams)?
2. Wall plug size only?
3. Cordless cannot do with this budget if don't have existing 18V battery and charger system. Tool only (GBH180LI sans battery and charger) is 350-400 for rotary hammer. Full set with 4AH procore battery and fast charger 777.
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1. Clay bricks & sand bricks only. No RC.
2. Only wall plug I could think of at the moment.
3. How much should I allocate to make it doable? RM500 is what I had in mind. I could top up a bit if I must. It must be cordless since I would be using more for furniture assembly than actually drilling into walls.

This post has been edited by blanket84: Mar 2 2021, 08:42 PM
blanket84
post Mar 2 2021, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 2 2021, 08:47 PM)
This makes life easier.  rclxm9.gif

https://shopee.com.my/Bosch-GSB-180-LI-Cord...3852.2681304023
Bosch GSB (B for bang=impact) GSB180LI will suit your needs.

The machine (solo tool only) is about 220-230

About 450 for complete set with briefcase.

About 500 for complete set with the fisherman toolbox and extra drill/screwdriver bits.

I would suggesttake the cheaper one and add the milwaukee impact bits is better idea.

Do not get the GSR (R for reversible, NO impact function) bangwall.gif instead laugh.gif
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Thank you for confirming my choice laugh.gif

I was actually looking at exact model that you proposed, hence how the RM500 budget was set. I just wasn’t sure if it is good enough to drill into bricks as it was advertised to be used on wood & metal only.

This post has been edited by blanket84: Mar 2 2021, 09:00 PM
blanket84
post Mar 2 2021, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 2 2021, 09:03 PM)
It'll work up to 10mm in bricks (masonry) according to spec sheet.
https://www.bosch-pt.com.my/my/en/products/...0-li-06019F83L0

Have the same myself, just on bigger battery shared with cordless rotary hammer (for concrete), but this works well for 6mm wall plugs in brickwalls.
This has also been abused as a "mini grinder" to polish out socket backbox holes in brickwalls.
Usually for me I use it for tile bits around 6mm, it works well (as tile bit cannot use at >500 rpm).
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Owh. I didn't check the page for spec sheet yet. Only saw the advertisement in Youtube. I guess the local page confirmed that it could be use for masonry drilling. I think 10mm should be good enough for my intended application.
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 12:02 PM

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Brushed vs Brushless. Is the brushless motor overhyped?

RM200 difference worth spending for brushless motor? The brush replacement is only RM12 and according to the internet, the brush only required to be replaced after 50-60 hours of usage.

This post has been edited by blanket84: Mar 30 2021, 12:04 PM
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Mar 30 2021, 12:09 PM)
Just because it is quite new in this power tool arena I guess even though brushless motor has been around so long already.

Anyway, the cost of part in brushless is more expensive than brushed type.
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I would understand the advantage of brushless motor in heavily used appliances. But for occasionally used tools especially for DIYers, is the brushless option worth the money?
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 12:23 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Mar 30 2021, 12:18 PM)
In my opinion, not worth to pay for the price now unless you just want to be able to tell you have brushless power tool and don't know where else to spend your money  laugh.gif
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Thanks for you opinion. I am in the same boat as you, in my opinion, looking at the maintenance reason, I couldn't justify me spending extra RM200 especially when the manufacturer even designed the tools easier for owner to access the brush and replace the brush on our own.

Just looking at other opinion from people experiencing using both brushed and brushless tools in real life. Probably they can give input from different angle than people promoting brushless motor in the internet.
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 30 2021, 12:21 PM)
It depends on usage pattern. For commercial use or home use biggrin.gif actually some EC brushless like the GBH180LI cordless i remember getting it (EC brushless solo) for approx 350 to 360 bucks as sifu ijan recommended laugh.gif so it didn't really cost more than the outgoing brushed model i would say?
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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 30 2021, 12:22 PM)
In your case since the differential in price 200 bucks..not worth lor.
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My option would be GSB 180-li vs GSB 18v-50.

Maybe you can take a look at the spec sheets and advise me the advantage of the later over the former from your experience handling tools.

The thing about me, I tend to buy overspec stuff, and sometimes I don't really use the specs that I paid extra for. Probably I should start buying according to my own usage pattern rather than buying overspec stuff thinking that I would use them one day:sweat:
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 01:25 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 30 2021, 12:49 PM)
Between the two
I believe the higher priced tool has a metal chuck, TBH for fixing screws like wall plug size, drilling tile bits, mixing paint, the GSB180 is already more than enough..I usually run at 1-5 lowest setting to avoid overtorquing the screws too deep in the material (kitcab), driving into 1.75/2" wall plug maybe around setting no.5 (highest is 20) on low speed gear. The price diff is almost enough to buy another GSB180 solo unit  laugh.gif

If you run this in screwdriver mode most of the time it is plentiful enough. Important to get impact rated screwdriver bit like the milwaukee shockwave 10 bucks per pc, less prone to snapping the screwdriver head off. Comes in shorty 65mm or 110mm length. For fixing shelves 110 easier. For tight spot 65mm minus off the 1in in chuck it makes for a shorter tool but its not very flexible for non head on (as in not aligned 90deg perfect angle) application.

The only time where the plastic chuck (still can buy replacement chuck head) may fail earlier when it is abused as a wannabe grinder (sideways movement polishing of the wall for socket backbox); or if you have hard concrete wall (brickwall is easier to go thru) and abuse this for weeks as an impact drill whereby a rotary hammer will do the job easier.
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Thanks for you input. The chuck part is something that I have no idea in what circumstances it would fail. I guess you're giving a perfect example that it could fail one day if I abuse the tools. Something that I should consider, metal chuck.

QUOTE(Zot @ Mar 30 2021, 12:51 PM)
Normally the the with metal chuck has higher torque. If the price is not much different, then I'd go for higher torque.

I also tend to buy higher spec tool if I think the price difference is worth the the additional feature or spec which I may not need to use now. I bought lower power drill thinking I may not need higher power, but in the end I end up buying another one with higher power with hammer function. Then I bought a rotary hammer with ability to chisel as well. Then I bought cordless  laugh.gif

I still found each one of them has own use for different situation and requirement.

In thins case I'd say I'd go for the GSB 18V-50 even if Rm100 extra.
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QUOTE(Zot @ Mar 30 2021, 12:55 PM)
I have no idea the price difference here but most of the time the price difference due to what the package provided like casing additional accessories. Need to ask the seller. The picture is just trick in business  laugh.gif
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I think the price difference probably not as much as I mentioned earlier. Probably was looking at different packages from different shop. I just found a shop that sells solo unit for both model, and the price difference is RM149. I guess I have to read more before I make my final decision. Have been thinking about buying a drill for almost 2 months already and end up buying Bosch Go 2 as for temporary usage.

Talking about my recent purchase Bosch Go 2 screw driver, Bosch sent me 20 x 25pcs screw bits as free gifts. I was having the shock of my life to see so much free gifts. I end up PMing them telling about their mistake and they sent someone to collect the extras. Could have bought a unit of GSB18v-50 + all accessories if I sell all the extras laugh.gif
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 30 2021, 12:57 PM)
Sikit sikit jadi bukit they said  laugh.gif
All the ones below in my collection come with the briefcase looking case, except circular saw and grinder papeŕ box only.
There are some variants coming with fisherman box.

Power Tools
Bosch GBH 2-24 DRE rotary hammer 490
Bosch GBH180Li cordless rotary hammer(solo tool,4AH procore,fast charger) 777
Bosch GKS7000 circular saw 335
Bosch GSB180-Li 229
Bosch GWS060 angle grinder (with grinding discs) 115
Bosch grinding discs 10
SDS Drill bits for rotary hammer 28
SDS 22mm bit 44.8

Depends also if there's a bigger toy for more heavy duty work as well. In its class as a 18V drill driver I would say it works very well (GSB180). Most contractor video also get by with the GSB120 (those china amoi electrician) https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=211347934082616

@blanket84 , torque is 28/50 Nm in the 18V 50 vs 21/54 in brushed GSB180.
Not much diff in actual usage, but you will get metal chuck (which I believe can be replaced) and brushless motor only.
Torque almost similar but the low torque is higher by 30pc in low gear.
If usage more as screwdriver I think GSB180 is plentiful already, use the money for bigger battery if needed.
Coz based on experience driving 2" screw I didn't need to max out the torque even on low gear  rclxm9.gif
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Brush - RM12
Plastic Chuck - RM42

=RM54

Need to find extra RM95 reason to buy GSB 18v-50.

So far the type of work I will be using would be drilling and furniture assembly (which I already bought a Bosch Go 2), and probably carpet cleaning and car upholstery cleaning. What else can I use with the drill? sweat.gif

And talking about battery, how much do I need?

This post has been edited by blanket84: Mar 30 2021, 01:33 PM
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 01:47 PM

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Actually my cheapest option is to pick up the phone and ring up my brother in law. He got all the Bosch, DeWalt, Milwaukee and pakai buang china brand drill in the world in his store.

But then I have been depending on him for 10 years already, and since I finally own a house, I think I should buy my own power tools as well.
blanket84
post Mar 30 2021, 02:24 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Mar 30 2021, 02:01 PM)
It also depends on your strategic planning. If power hungry stuff e.g. lawn mower/cordless grinder/cordless rotary hammer are not in the collection master plan anytime soon, then any 1.5AH also will work fine.
Just for reference - Cordless rotary hammer need min 3AH. Drilling about 20 holes 2" 5.5mm in RC wall already took up 1 bar from 5 bar of the 4AH procore.

If you don't have concrete wall to worry about - Drill driver should be perfectly fine with the 1.5AH or 2AH (lighter battery).
3 and 4AH weight similar but weight is more than the 1.5-2AH sizes.

Per https://www.cnet.com/home/kitchen-and-house...cordless-drill/
It appears that for 1.0AH alone you should be able to do these for sure. The 0.5AH not included as "reserve capacity"  laugh.gif

Number of 3-inch screws screws driven into hardwood ("balau" or similar) per amp hour for 18-volt brushed drills. ~ 125x

High torque Number of 1-inch wood spade bit holes bored per amp hour for 18-volt brushed drills. ~ 20x

For my GSB180Li on a 4AH procore (my only battery laugh.gif) it hardly deplete the battery at all in screwdriving use. Drilling 20-30 wall plug 6mm holes in brickwall should be easily doable on a 1.5/2.0AH.
Would be fun to see a pic of his tools collection  rclxms.gif if its convenient lah, no worries. Just my curiosity.
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I guess that pretty much answered my question. I don't need so much battery. Probably drilling 15-20 holes in one weekend only.

Haha. I don't want to upset my sister by asking my BIL to take out his collection even though she knew that he got plenty. Everytime he came to my house for drilling something, he brought a new set of power tool. And you must be wondering why I didn't ask him all this about power tools. I just don't want him to kill the conversation by saying, no need to buy lah, just take his, all problem settle sweat.gif
blanket84
post Apr 4 2021, 11:24 PM

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ceo684

GSB-180li @ RM475 including 2x 2.0Ah battery + charger + fisherman’s box case + 41 drill bits, okay price?
blanket84
post Apr 5 2021, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 5 2021, 12:02 AM)
Bought online. Should be brushless based on the sticker tongue.gif

[attachmentid=10830662]
[attachmentid=10830663]

Ahh my apologies I messed up the pricing abit, should be RM395 c/w a set of free Makita bits and the briefcase.
Coz that time they had a promo for Grabpay I got to claim the RM80 grabpay credit for GBH180LI back then
Idk why in my mind it was ~350-360 worth (I think I must have discounted away the briefcase and set of free Makita bits) notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif apologies!

[attachmentid=10830664]
[attachmentid=10830665]

All in all gross 768 after some free shipping etc. Actual value undiscounted should be around 777.

[attachmentid=10830667]
from the 475
GSB180LI w/ fisherman box solo is 229
balance 246
for one piece 2AH its already 207
for set of 2pc 2AH and one charger its 379 https://shopee.com.my/BOSCH-18V-2AH-STARTER...00441.289836963
so for your case looks good thumbup.gif
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Thanks. Placed order already laugh.gif Would cancel if you said can get cheaper laugh.gif

Now to the next question. Which drill bit(brand/model) recommended for tile drilling? Need them for towel rail and mirror in bathroom.
blanket84
post Apr 5 2021, 11:07 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 5 2021, 12:44 AM)
I think this is quite a good deal, there may be some TnG credit promo to claim (current ongoing) IIRC.
For the solo unit nowadays very expensive already. So it may not be so worth to buy piecemeal like my rotary hammer, 2021 combo meal cheaper laugh.gif

Seems like everything went up RM50..
GBH180 rotary hammer solo also around 450 nowadays..
GSB180 impact drill solo was 219/229 (briefcase/fisherman) last year.. was 180 but earlier seller I ordered from didn't want to ship out from March till May

Fisherman box itself also worth RM50 on its own coz its a very nice toolbox for the price laugh.gif

For your question..
usually I use CYL-9 for tiles https://shopee.com.my/MAJU-Quality-CYL-9-Ce...37111.192248145
You can also use Makita glass bits but cost a bit more https://shopee.com.my/MAKITA-GLASS-DRILL-BI...6835.9004738524

It will need 5 min, use slow mode (gear 1) on your GSB180 on drill mode only (without the hammer!)
Slower you go the longer the bits last. They wear out crazy fast /break easily if you rempit them.
After the hole passed the tile already, change to the cheaper masonry bit, and impact mode the mortar behind the tile.
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Thanks. I saw people selling two models of bosch tiles drill bits, CYL-9 and HEX-9.

Then I found this video.



What do you think. It looks fast but what are the disadvantages?
blanket84
post Apr 5 2021, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 5 2021, 12:20 PM)
It looks like an improvement over the old CYL 9 ceramic, seems to have more than one cutting edge so its like a mini TBM (tunnel boring machine).
Shank wise being hex shank can go into any drill or impact driver which kinda makes good sense in terms of maximising tool compatibility since to work this tile bit you just need something that rotates (NO impact).

The only potential caveat I see in HEX-9 is the tip is not as sharp pointed as the previous CYL 9, so care need to be taken to hold the drill precisely otherwise it might skitter horizontally, you can solve this easily with masking tape and drawing a dot for the hole.

For all tile bits the heat kills the bit so although they say cooling not required, you can make a single bit last longer if you constantly cool it with a trickle of water (if it doesn't make a mess such as in bathroom, no issue with wetting the place). Bits can be used dry mode also but don't rempit them until smoke come out. My POV is either run it pure wet all the time or just pure dry mode as frequent hot cold hot cold stress the bit tip and more prone to cracking in the case of CYL-9.
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Thanks. I'm worried about the drill skidding in the beginning of the job looking at the shape of the drill bit, but then probably masking tape would solve the problem.

I think I would buy HEX-9 first and try in places where I only need one hole. If it skid so badly, then probably I would buy CYL-9 for multiple holes job (to make sure everything is perfectly level)

QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 5 2021, 12:31 PM)
Hahaha it does "save money" especially for smaller jobs like install shelves and curtain rails. I think I made enough from a few small paid jobs (neighbours and friends) to pay for the rotary hammer itself tongue.gif as compared to calling contractors which naturally won't be too inclined to show up for minor minor jobs.

For Ikea kitcab as I did need to invest in additional tool i.e. circular saw to chop the countertop and cut out the sink hole it was just over half of what the usual installation fee circa RM600 would cost.
Ignoring the cost of the rotary hammer since other jobs already paid for it biggrin.gif
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How much do you normally charge for drilling a hole? I need to justify my purchase by calculating holes x price per hole laugh.gif
blanket84
post Apr 5 2021, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(Zot @ Apr 5 2021, 02:28 PM)
Whatever ceo684 is charging, I offering 50% less  :thumbsup:
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Whatever ceo684 is charging, I am charging 50% more to myself to justify my purchase laugh.gif

 

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