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> Questions for Christians and Muslims:, How to avoid hell?

Hoka Nobasho
post May 14 2017, 07:45 AM

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QUOTE(mycolumn @ May 14 2017, 01:40 AM)
Hi there, why start with John though?
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Not that I see a difference though.
deeplyheartbroken
post May 14 2017, 10:54 AM

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Actually quite pity those who does not use logics to view their religion where else in day to day living one must use logics to survive

This post has been edited by deeplyheartbroken: May 14 2017, 10:55 AM
Hoka Nobasho
post May 14 2017, 06:59 PM

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QUOTE(deeplyheartbroken @ May 14 2017, 10:54 AM)
Actually quite pity those who does not use logics to view their religion where else in day to day living one must use logics to survive
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it's the greatest double life contradiction that they have to live with, and unfortunately, with most of them who refuse to admit it or refuse to even question it.
ThisWorldisWeird
post May 18 2017, 08:21 AM

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QUOTE(deeplyheartbroken @ May 14 2017, 10:54 AM)
Actually quite pity those who does not use logics to view their religion where else in day to day living one must use logics to survive
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Usually religion comes in when logic fails to explain something, that's all religion started imo. Because not all the time logic can explain stuff, or not yet anyway
puchongite
post May 18 2017, 08:59 AM

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QUOTE(ThisWorldisWeird @ May 18 2017, 08:21 AM)
Usually religion comes in when logic fails to explain something, that's all religion started imo. Because not all the time logic can explain stuff, or not yet anyway
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Why do you have to explain something when it cannot be logically explained ? Why can't you leave it unknown or pending ? blink.gif

This post has been edited by puchongite: May 18 2017, 09:00 AM
BeastX
post May 18 2017, 09:02 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 18 2017, 08:59 AM)
Why do you have to explain something when it cannot be logically explained ? Why can't you leave it unknown or pendingblink.gif
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Perhaps one needs to be trained or achieve the mental maturity to accept unknown... a cultural and even genetic predisposition...

This post has been edited by BeastX: May 18 2017, 09:04 AM
lumixman
post May 18 2017, 09:12 AM

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What manufacturer would sell you an auto-mobile and send you the manual some years later?
And then ask yourself, what Just God would create a planet of intelligent beings and send
them divine instructions thousands of years later?

puchongite
post May 18 2017, 09:16 AM

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QUOTE(lumixman @ May 18 2017, 09:12 AM)
What manufacturer would sell you an auto-mobile and send you the manual some years later?
And then ask yourself, what Just God would create a planet of intelligent beings and send
them divine instructions thousands of years later?
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Here this is where they will be able to accept the unknown, yes, God did it for some unknown reason .... cool2.gif
BeastX
post May 18 2017, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 18 2017, 09:16 AM)
Here this is where they will be able to accept the unknown, yes, God did it for some unknown reason ....  cool2.gif
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Or any anthropomorphic reasoning that's unsubstantiated.
ThisWorldisWeird
post May 18 2017, 09:35 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 18 2017, 08:59 AM)
Why do you have to explain something when it cannot be logically explained ? Why can't you leave it unknown or pending ?  blink.gif
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Human nature. Like how you wanna know what your partner is doing all the time, you wanna know what is happening around you.

puchongite
post May 18 2017, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(ThisWorldisWeird @ May 18 2017, 09:35 AM)
Human nature. Like how you wanna know what your partner is doing all the time, you wanna know what is happening around you.
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But then strange thing is that the curiosity just stopped right after there is preposition of a God. Still not everything is explained, even with religion and God. For example, why the scripture only comes after so many thousands years later ?

Why the curiosity is fully satisfied only after the existence of a being called God ?
ThisWorldisWeird
post May 18 2017, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(puchongite @ May 18 2017, 09:46 AM)
But then strange thing is that the curiosity just stopped right after there is preposition of a God. Still not everything is explained, even with religion and God. For example, why the scripture only comes after so many thousands years later ?

Why the curiosity is fully satisfied only after the existence of a being called God ?
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For the first question, the scripture is actually a compilation, and really went into full berserk mode after the Christians began to have financial power to travel and spread.

2nd q,
Not satisfied, but 'filled'. An empty mind, like an empty stomach, is satisfied when filled. People back then had no explanation for a lot of things, it only takes one person who is an inch smarter than another to fill up that 'blank' and satisfy the curiosity. Like if you have no idea at all about quantum theory, any bullshit that sounds legit will seem right to you.

Difference today is, ppl's minds are no longer 'empty', we have tons of information and opinions filled up, hence we start questioning religion.
SpikeMarlene
post May 18 2017, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(ThisWorldisWeird @ May 18 2017, 09:59 AM)
For the first question, the scripture is actually a compilation, and really went into full berserk mode after the Christians began to have financial power to travel and spread.

2nd q,
Not satisfied, but 'filled'. An empty mind, like an empty stomach, is satisfied when filled. People back then had no explanation for a lot of things, it only takes one person who is an inch smarter than another to fill up that 'blank' and satisfy the curiosity. Like if you have no idea at all about quantum theory, any bullshit that sounds legit will seem right to you.

Difference today is, ppl's minds are no longer 'empty', we have tons of information and opinions filled up, hence we start questioning religion.
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Here is a nice quote, about the value of a curious mind,

“The value the world sets upon motives is often grossly unjust and inaccurate. Consider, for example, two of them: mere insatiable curiosity and the desire to do good. The latter is put high above the former, and yet it is the former that moves one of the most useful men the human race has yet produced: the scientific investigator. What actually urges him on is not some brummagem idea of Service, but a boundless, almost pathological thirst to penetrate the unknown, to uncover the secret, to find out what has not been found out before. His prototype is not the liberator releasing slaves, the good Samaritan lifting up the fallen, but a dog sniffing tremendously at an infinite series of rat-holes.”

― H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
wodenus
post May 18 2017, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(Hoka Nobasho @ Mar 20 2017, 12:48 PM)
To the Christians and Muslims, how to avoid hell?

Christians say: "Believe in Jesus and go heaven! Or you there's only one place for you, hell."
Muslims say: "Believe in Allah and go heaven! Or you there's only one place for you, hell."

Further questions for Christians and Muslims:

1) So which religion we can be certain that after one joins, they can go heaven, and not to hell instead?
2) And is it right to send a Christian or a Muslim to hell for believing in the wrong one, even when they are sincere and faithful believers of their faith?
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Perhaps all of them are multiple paths to the same God.
Hoka Nobasho
post May 18 2017, 11:17 AM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ May 18 2017, 11:15 AM)
Perhaps all of them are multiple paths to the same God.
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I don't think it's rational to bank on the notion on "perhaps" with the risk of...ahem, going into an eternal place of suffering.


This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: May 18 2017, 11:18 AM
wodenus
post May 18 2017, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(Hoka Nobasho @ May 18 2017, 11:17 AM)
I don't think it's rational to bank on the notion on "perhaps" with the risk of...ahem, going into an eternal place of suffering.
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How is it more rational to assume there isn't?
Hoka Nobasho
post May 18 2017, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ May 18 2017, 11:23 AM)
How is it more rational to assume there isn't?
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Assume there isn't what exactly? That there's no hell to go, or that there isn't a god that somehow allow both religions to avoid hell without an actual reference (religious or otherwise) that explicitly tells as such?

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: May 18 2017, 11:26 AM
SpikeMarlene
post May 18 2017, 11:26 AM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ May 18 2017, 11:15 AM)
Perhaps all of them are multiple paths to the same God.
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They are of exclusive membership, you cannot join all the clubs and expect the same treatment as members who only joined one club. How do we know this? It is explicitly written in the membership rules ...
wodenus
post May 18 2017, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(Hoka Nobasho @ May 18 2017, 11:26 AM)
Assume there isn't what exactly? That there's no hell to go, or that there isn't a god that somehow allow both religions to avoid hell without an actual reference (religious or otherwise) that explicitly tells as such?
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How is it more rational to believe what you believe? and what do you believe actually? how is any one belief or position more rational than another?
Hoka Nobasho
post May 18 2017, 11:35 AM

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QUOTE(wodenus @ May 18 2017, 11:27 AM)
How is it more rational to believe what you believe? and what do you believe actually? how is any one belief or position more rational than another?
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In case you haven't read the first post carefully, allow me to clarify my position clearly.

With both Christianity and Islam that explicitly said that their god is the correct one to follow in order to have eternal life, hence avoiding eternal suffering, the chances of getting to hell is as shown below:

Chances to enter heaven (and avoid hell):

Christianity: 50%
Islam: 50%

=========

Now let's consider your proposed position, when you have claimed that "PERHAPS" both religions could possibly lead to the same god.

Therein lies the question, what are my chances, the percentage of that possibility as expressed with the word "perhaps"? What is the risk of me ending up in hell if I were to take up your position?

And if you don't actually know the actual percentage of the risk involve, why would it be considered to be rational for me to place my bet on you, with my eternal life at stake of suffering eternal damnation?

Is it not irrational to place your wager on uncertainties, especially an uncertainty without any objective reference that will provide better chances to reduce those uncertainties?

Conclusion: I therefore think it's nor rational to bank on the notion of "perhaps", especially it's about a wager of not ended up in eternal suffering.

This post has been edited by Hoka Nobasho: May 18 2017, 11:59 AM

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