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 bad programmers use IDEs

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TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 10:59 AM, updated 7y ago

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i just came back from a lecture and today he said that "companies will never employ someone who use IDEs. when you code on command line, you know exactly what's going on in your code instead of pressing F6 and the IDE does everything for you"

i kind of disagree since if i know the gist of what's happening and can overcome a problem and get the desired outcome, doesn't that make me as good of a programmer compared to someone who uses the command line interface?
buzzfizz
post Mar 20 2017, 11:07 AM

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Phpstorm ftw
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(buzzfizz @ Mar 20 2017, 11:07 AM)
Phpstorm ftw
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trying to get into php as im leaning more in the web dev route. have you tried Atom? its a pretty versatile IDE.
cubiclecarbonate
post Mar 20 2017, 11:36 AM

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lecturer? try to get his/her hands dirty on real dev projects on daily basis where dateline is deathly important

you can write your own code, your own functions, your own calculations. does it justified with the timeline? unless you working with R&D dept.
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(cubiclecarbonate @ Mar 20 2017, 11:36 AM)
lecturer? try to get his/her hands dirty on real dev projects on daily basis where dateline is deathly important

you can write your own code, your own functions, your own calculations. does it justified with the timeline? unless you working with R&D dept.
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i think he's a phd student but the professor was supervising his lecture.
i think that it doesnt matter what programming environment you use if you end up making the desired product and solve problems.
saying that literally no one will employ you because you use an IDE is a little exaggerating.
buzzfizz
post Mar 20 2017, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 11:12 AM)
trying to get into php as im leaning more in the web dev route. have you tried Atom? its a pretty versatile IDE.
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well atom is not cosidered an ide, its in the same class as sublime

but yeah i tried atom before, very nice. still prefer sublime tho icon_rolleyes.gif
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(buzzfizz @ Mar 20 2017, 11:47 AM)
well atom is not cosidered an ide, its in the same class as sublime

but yeah i tried atom before, very nice. still prefer sublime tho  icon_rolleyes.gif
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whoops my bad, i meant text editor! i tried sublime 3 when i was starting off but i changed to Atom. i cant seem to remember why i did though hmm.gif
cubiclecarbonate
post Mar 20 2017, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 11:45 AM)
i think he's a phd student but the professor was supervising his lecture.
i think that it doesnt matter what programming environment you use if you end up making the desired product and solve problems.
saying that literally no one will employ you because you use an IDE is a little exaggerating.
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i only use 2 for web dev

netbeans, sublime

netbeans for its auto format coding laugh.gif laugh.gif
alien3d
post Mar 20 2017, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 10:59 AM)
i just came back from a lecture and today he said that "companies will never employ someone who use IDEs. when you code on command line, you know exactly what's going on in your code instead of pressing F6 and the IDE does everything for you"

i kind of disagree since if i know the gist of what's happening and can overcome a problem and get the desired outcome, doesn't that make me as good of a programmer compared to someone who uses the command line interface?
*
F6 doing what ?
Whos your lecturer by da way ?

If you project is OOP project, you want to create interface each object because need to knew what is method/function information ? I know lot of people prefer vi,vim ,notepad++,Atom,Visual Studio Code..


But still, a good ide can detect method and you can jump to it and see how it work aka like object browser Visual Studio ..

To me , a bad IDE is like XCODE. Interface to clunky and i keep forgetting what,where did i changed. Sorry ya apple folks

** i think a lot of people want to lecture him back.. I would like to see 1 simple thing. Can he compile c hello world using vi,vim ? or notepad using windows. If he can okay little respect but if
big system ? doh.gif

This post has been edited by alien3d: Mar 20 2017, 12:23 PM
alien3d
post Mar 20 2017, 12:24 PM

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QUOTE(buzzfizz @ Mar 20 2017, 11:07 AM)
Phpstorm ftw
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you paid it ? or cheapskate like me .. using EAP version. whistling.gif
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 12:30 PM

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QUOTE(alien3d @ Mar 20 2017, 12:04 PM)
F6  doing what ?
Whos your lecturer by da way ?

If you project is OOP project, you want to create interface each object because need to knew what is method/function information ? I know lot of people prefer vi,vim ,notepad++,Atom,Visual Studio Code..
But still, a good ide can detect method and you can jump to it and see how it work aka like object browser Visual Studio ..

To me , a bad IDE is like XCODE. Interface to clunky and i keep forgetting what,where did i changed. Sorry ya  apple folks

** i think a lot of people want to lecture him back.. I would like to see 1 simple thing. Can he compile c hello world using vi,vim ? or notepad using windows. If he can okay little respect but if
big system ? doh.gif
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its to compile and run the program. basically a-click-process compared to needing -gcc -o etc on a command line for C. his lecture wasnt completely about this. he was just lecturing us and giving some C programs as examples and while he was moving on, he just dropped this tip.

yeah i cant imagine coding for a long period of time using a command line interface. i feel like the learning curve is pretty high for something that's not necessarily needed these days as you can get a lot more done much more efficiently.
alien3d
post Mar 20 2017, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 12:30 PM)
its to compile and run the program. basically a-click-process compared to needing -gcc -o etc on a command line for C. his lecture wasnt completely about this. he was just lecturing us and giving some C programs as examples and while he was moving on, he just dropped this tip.

yeah i cant imagine coding for a long period of time using a command line interface. i feel like the learning curve is pretty high for something that's not necessarily needed these days as you can get a lot more done much more efficiently.
*
Ohh just ignore what he said, vim got color code also .. So long time code also no stress eye.I also use https://justgetflux.com/

https://github.com/NLKNguyen/papercolor-theme



TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(alien3d @ Mar 20 2017, 12:38 PM)
Ohh just ignore what he said, vim got color code  also .. So long time code also no stress eye.I also use https://justgetflux.com/

https://github.com/NLKNguyen/papercolor-theme
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oh shit, very cool! i'll definitely give it a go. thanks!
abubin
post Mar 20 2017, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 10:59 AM)
i just came back from a lecture and today he said that "companies will never employ someone who use IDEs. when you code on command line, you know exactly what's going on in your code instead of pressing F6 and the IDE does everything for you"

i kind of disagree since if i know the gist of what's happening and can overcome a problem and get the desired outcome, doesn't that make me as good of a programmer compared to someone who uses the command line interface?
*
can the lecturer back those claims with actual proof? I find it ridiculous. IDE get the work done much faster. I think what the lecturer is trying to say it that IDE make the programmer less versatile on actual coding. But if the programmer is well verse enough in the codes, it's does help when IDE can make things go faster.
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(abubin @ Mar 20 2017, 12:52 PM)
can the lecturer back those claims with actual proof? I find it ridiculous. IDE get the work done much faster. I think what the lecturer is trying to say it that IDE make the programmer less versatile on actual coding. But if the programmer is well verse enough in the codes, it's does help when IDE can make things go faster.
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yeah i think that's what he meant as well; or atleast i hope so. its been said that IDEs make coding simple to the point where people dont really know whats happening under the hood.
SUSlibidocllab
post Mar 20 2017, 02:38 PM

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Clearly he has never written software that spanned more than a few files, or has quality built into it. You should drop us the name of this guy so none of us here will accidentally hire him or refer him anywhere.
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(libidocllab @ Mar 20 2017, 02:38 PM)
Clearly he has never written software that spanned more than a few files, or has quality built into it. You should drop us the name of this guy so none of us here will accidentally hire him or refer him anywhere.
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well the projects he was showing were just exercises which extend to maybe 20+ lines. but yeah, i get your point.

doubt youll cross paths with him so allg, besides i respect the man's privacy + opinion.
otakotak
post Mar 20 2017, 07:04 PM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 12:30 PM)
its to compile and run the program. basically a-click-process compared to needing -gcc -o etc on a command line for C. his lecture wasnt completely about this. he was just lecturing us and giving some C programs as examples and while he was moving on, he just dropped this tip.

yeah i cant imagine coding for a long period of time using a command line interface. i feel like the learning curve is pretty high for something that's not necessarily needed these days as you can get a lot more done much more efficiently.
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tell your lecturer don't be bodo. real programmer use makefile and type make instead of manually type gcc/g++ ...etc

depend on context, i may be disagree with your lecturer too. ppl use ide to ease their life.
but some people are religious about their ide. to eclipse or to intellij. to sublime or to atom.. ultraedit or notepad++ and list goes on.
to use ide or not use ide shouldn't be an issue too. it's all a matter of preference. what important is how u write your code. overall design and data flow matter.
if ide can help u archive that, so be it. tell your lecturer stop preaching hispter/geek wannabe into student's mind, this is 2017.

tell him a decade+ programmer that use vim most of his life tell this.
kingkingyyk
post Mar 20 2017, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(Ludwig. @ Mar 20 2017, 10:59 AM)
i just came back from a lecture and today he said that "companies will never employ someone who use IDEs. when you code on command line, you know exactly what's going on in your code instead of pressing F6 and the IDE does everything for you"

i kind of disagree since if i know the gist of what's happening and can overcome a problem and get the desired outcome, doesn't that make me as good of a programmer compared to someone who uses the command line interface?
*
When you can't code, neither notepad nor IDE will make your code run. If you know how to code, coding in notepad or IDE doesn't matter.

But IDE makes coding faster via autocomplete, syntax highlighting and syntax error spotting. When doing real large project, using text editor will not be conducive for the development. You will find yourself often looking back to other source files created earlier.

I'm a full time Eclipse user, and I got employed. rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by kingkingyyk: Mar 20 2017, 10:36 PM
TSLudwig.
post Mar 20 2017, 10:39 PM

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QUOTE(kingkingyyk @ Mar 20 2017, 10:35 PM)
When you can't code, neither notepad nor IDE will make your code run. If you know how to code, coding in notepad or IDE doesn't matter.

But IDE makes coding faster via autocomplete, syntax highlighting and syntax error spotting. When doing real large project, using text editor will not be conducive for the development. You will find yourself often looking back to other source files created earlier.

I'm a full time Eclipse user, and I got employed. rolleyes.gif
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yeah, again, i think its heavily exaggerated. with any industry, if you can do the job better and more efficient than someone else despite their 'unique talents' youll shine brighter.

ive been told that people who code on the command line are very '>all' because they feel superior knowing that they dont need to be holding hands with an IDE to get their program to work.

eh, whatever floats your boat.

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