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 Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies v2

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TSwengherng
post May 19 2017, 06:01 PM

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Hmm......this EMC2 pump is lasting a lot longer than I thought it would......
I wonder if there is some news behind this.
Have to investigate it.
hmm.gif
TSwengherng
post May 20 2017, 04:40 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ May 20 2017, 10:37 AM)
My liking for cryptocurrencies has to be justified it's extra benefits vs fiat, hopefully with your help, this is just the same for general public, one has to access it from ground up and not to be over-hyped.

I believe the other 3 MYR-BTC exchange would inherit the same nature as Luno, i.e.

1. documentation verification requirements, hassle and not private, same as fiat.

2. traceable transaction, lot's of digital footprint. same as fiat.

3. risk of brokers knowing your private keys (you have to change it a few times yourself to make it secure and hence incurring cost of transactions). more risk/hassle than fiat.

4. worries of storage or memory recollection. worse than fiat as fiat provides you peace of mind which is priceless.

5. liquidity/usability issue. Limited choice of payment, withdrawal hassle, low payment acceptance rate, etc.

not against cryptocurrencies, but above challenges if can solved then surely cryptocurrencies will become mainstream.
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1. Yes, this is due to more countries adopting stricter KYC regulations, in order to prevent money laundering and other illegal activities. However, you have to understand that this requirement is coming from the fiat side of the equation, not the cryptocurrency side. All online exchanges that supports fiat/crypto trades will require this. However, there is no such requirement for crypto/crypto exchanges.

2. In terms of traceability, it is even more transparent that fiat. With paper money, you can deal with someone in cash, and there is basically no record of the paper money changing hands. With a distributed ledger, each and every transaction, regardless of amount, all the way from the first transaction in the first block, is fully traceable and cannot be faked. This is the foundation upon which the blockchain technology was designed. The people transacting are anonymous. The transactions themselves are not.

3. No, private keys don't work like that. You don't need to "change it a few times to make it secure". As long as you yourself control the private keys (e.g. do not leave your coins on online exchanges), then your coins are secure. If you don't control your own private keys, then they are not secure no matter how many times you change your address. If you put your coins in a hardware wallet, where the private keys never leave the wallet itself and the wallet is un-hackable because it is not connected to the internet, then your coins are secure. Period. The only "risk" you have is if you are not careful and just leave your hardware wallet lying around everywhere where you can lose it or it can be stolen.

4. True, but that is because cryptocurrency was developed so it can be a trust-less system (i.e. you don't need to trust anyone but yourself). With fiat, you have to either store cold hard cash yourself (essentially the same as having a hardware wallet) or store it in a bank (just like storing a coin on an online exchange) where you have to trust the bank/exchange to give you your money/coin back when you withdraw it. The only difference here is that banks are government-regulated and your savings are insured by PIDM so the risk of default is lower. If (in a hypothetical doomsday extreme example) tomorrow the Malaysian government declared that all banks are to be taken offline immediately and all withdrawals are halted for one month, there is nothing you can do to access your money (I know it's a crazy example) which is what I meant by having to "trust" the bank that stores your money.

5. This is true, at least for the near foreseeable future, until cryptocurrency achieves global adoption into everyday life. Actually now people can already buy food/drinks, buy cars, buy houses, flight tickets, hotel bookings, etc. all using bitcoin, but not yet in Malaysia. Japan for example has just declared bitcoin as legal tender, and hundreds of thousands of merchants are accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment.


QUOTE(lowya @ May 20 2017, 12:23 PM)
again, newbie/noob logical question:

so if a seller wallet = seller private key + seller public key, and buyer wallet = buyer private key + buyer public key

and a buyer can generate private key with private key with some sort of encrypting software (which perhaps also can decode public key backward to private key?!)

and when buyer buy bitcoin, buyer get to know the seller's public key, right? (which means both of them own it same time at the point of transaction?)

so, at what point the technology assure the buyer that seller will not reuse the public key? (seller can use decoding software to get it's private key decode from public key in reverse?)
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Public keys (addresses) can be shown to anyone at all times, there is no risk in that. In fact, it is a must for merchants (e.g. Starbucks will have to let every customer know their address in order to receive the payments in bitcoin).
With SHA-256 hashing and elliptic curve cryptography (a bit too long and mundane to explain here), it's pretty safe to say that it is practically impossible to derive your private keys just from knowing your public keys.
It's just your private keys that need to be kept secure. Although the public and private keys are mathematically linked, they cannot be backwards-decrypted.
Well OK, if you want to get down to the details of it, technically speaking even elliptic curve cryptography is vulnerable toa brute-force attack using quantum computing technology, but that's a different topic.
And if you are really paranoid, just spread your stash into various different addresses within the same hardware wallet, or even get multiple hardware wallets (just like putting your gold bars into many different vaults in different locations, each with a different lock combination).

This post has been edited by wengherng: May 20 2017, 04:45 PM
TSwengherng
post May 20 2017, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(lowya @ May 20 2017, 06:44 PM)
This thread should be voted as one of the best thread in LYN. (what a shame this forum design doesn't include thread/poster ratings)

Reason because not only the contributors here are very savvy, you know who you are =), the most remarkable thing about you guys here are the willingness to share.

Thanks to all who help replying to me earlier.
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QUOTE(soonming @ May 20 2017, 07:35 PM)
Totally agree with this sentiment. I am newbie. But under their guidance I managed to dab my feet into this world of crypto. I got no background in tech but I can see where it's headed.

Still small fry and just getting started  but I hope to make it big like the big boys in this forum and return the favour of sharing my knowledge with others.

Thank you. All of you.
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Well, I'm definitely not one of the savvy or knowledgeable ones here, but I heartily agree that the willingness to share and learn from each other, is one of the best attributes of this thread.
We're all small fries here (except for one certain individual here who shall not be named... wink.gif ) just starting out and learning.
The main objective, along the way to earning riches for ourselves, is to also enrich the lives of others, and to pay it forward.

TSwengherng
post May 21 2017, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(lowya @ May 21 2017, 09:46 AM)
technically is it correct to say that should you have transferred your private key from cloud (exchange) to your hardware wallet, you would not need permission to withdrawal/transfer your coin?
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QUOTE(lowya @ May 21 2017, 09:59 AM)
Doesn't it sound like the ownership of the ether you bought is tided to exchange you bought it from, that you even need approval by them?
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QUOTE(lowya @ May 21 2017, 10:10 AM)
If that's the analogy, then the online exchange is the bank then?

and the new bank is your hardware wallet when you 'transfer' it to hardware wallet?
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Yes, you are getting the concept now. smile.gif
If you keep your coins on the online exchange, they are your bank. They can get hacked, go bust or otherwise deny your withdrawal.
In your hardware wallet, the coins are in your own vault, you are your own bank. You don't need approval from anyone to manage your wealth.

Online exchanges are necessary because they serve as a platform for everyone to trade, but because of this inherent function, they are also the first target for hackers since everyone knows they hold millions of dollars worth of various coins.
They are also prone to congestion and downtime and other undesirable situations, especially in times of euphoria or panic, which then leads to them taking emergency drastic measures like halting withdrawals and such.

Hence the importance of a trust-less system.
Be your own bank, control your own wealth.
Trust no one.

TSwengherng
post May 21 2017, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(kmarc @ May 21 2017, 05:17 PM)
Unbelievable. Siacoin shooting again and already at 300M market cap.

Guys, I am happy for siacoin as it is my dark horse coin but this is getting ridiculous. If you're thinking about buying siacoin, only buy the money you're willing to lose and probably when things settle down. For me, I will just enjoy the charts at the sideline.

Siacoin is a long-term investment and their products are still in development. I'm rooting for their products to be successful but that would be at least another 1-2 years I think.

More links in front if you want to learn more.
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Probably should have bought it when you recommended it while it was still around 65 satoshi. Hehe.
This is crazy shit. blink.gif

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(WooTz @ May 22 2017, 06:35 AM)
Please stay glued to the EEA announcement and prepare to liquidate if there isn't Amazon, Facebook, Google, Tesla scale of companies joining.

I don't think Bitstamp adding ETH will be sufficient to stem the tide of a coming correction.
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QUOTE(kmarc @ May 22 2017, 06:52 AM)
thumbup.gif ETH has gain 2nd spot in market cap!  smile.gif
Again, for me, will HODL! Waiting for USD 500.......  bruce.gif
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Yeah but what kind of correction would we be seeing in that scenario?
50% dip?
90% crash?
Based on my naive thinking and short experience in cryptocurrency, recent corrections usually halt around the 30 - 50% range, which theoretically could mean around USD 70 for ETH, or thereabouts.
I think I can live with that.
I think I'll hodl out this wave, just like kmarc said.
TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(WooTz @ May 22 2017, 10:46 AM)
I just got reported twice, for trying to make them rich.

lol whatever man, the train is leaving.

US Banks will resume tonight, I dunno which part of moon are we headed from here

Strap in
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What do you mean you got reported?
Reported where and by whom?

Anyway, I see the date of the article is 22nd May 2017. How do they have an article for 22nd May if we just started the day and New York hasn't even reached 22nd May yet?
Or is it a pre-written unreleased article that someone managed to get and leak out?
confused.gif

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(WooTz @ May 22 2017, 11:11 AM)
Kopitiam for "spam"

They (EEA) released it themselves, that's a fraction of the 250 members hinted by Andrew Keys, DTCC and State Street is who's who enough, this will send shockwaves.

Take note it took 20 days for me to get verified on Gemini, now imagine the average folks who got wind of this news.

Bull trend of 2017 confirmed. Now let's hope there isn't bugs and black swans toward the moon.
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Hahaha......
Well, look at it this way, one year ago, if someone were to have told me that there is this "investment vehicle" that I put money into in order to buy some "digital money" that I will not get anything physically to hold, just some strings of numbers and alphabets, and will get 500 - 1000% profit in two months...... dude I would have reported that lunatic too.
biggrin.gif

Oh well, at least you tried to spread the word.
That's all we can do.

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(Balok @ May 22 2017, 12:27 PM)
I feel like dumping all my life savings onto these coins laugh.gif

YOLO
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We all feel the same, mate.
And I suspect that some of us might really have done that even. Looking at the recent prices, they made the right decision!

QUOTE(killerpigglet @ May 22 2017, 12:41 PM)
Do you guys need VPN to buy any bitcoins? I headache trying to buy any... So confusing...
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VPN not required.
If you are a Malaysian, all you need is a Malaysian bank account, and a computer with an internet connection.
And money.......you need money.

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(shahrul09 @ May 22 2017, 01:43 PM)
Why would 6 years old kiddo need to know bout smart contract? -.-
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Uh......I don't think that's what he meant.
He's just asking for a simple and easy-to-understand explanation to smart contracts.

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(hjffgjng @ May 22 2017, 03:13 PM)
thank you for explainin

i dont understand this particular

the price of the currency to rise to a dollar? then sell to me for a dollar when i pay it for 30 cents

why is this stealing???
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For example, you see the price is 30 cents, and you clicked buy, assuming that you will be paying 30 cents for the coin.
However, due to internal controls, the transaction was put on hold and did not complete, and was only completed later when the price had increased to 1 dollar.
So, effectively, you thought you were buying the coin at 30 cents, but finally had to pay 1 dollar for it.
And the online exchange gets a percentage of your transaction based on the amount, meaning the higher the transacted amount, the higher their profits.

QUOTE(roy_zu @ May 22 2017, 03:15 PM)
Dear sifu2, please enlighthen me.. hehe
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Both ETH and BTC are at their All Time Highs, both are possible to face corrections.
If you are thinking of converting to some other altcoin, then maybe it is worth considering since you can get some on the cheap.
But if only between BTC and ETH, then looking at the scenario, I personally would not recommend switching one for the other.
Just my personal opinion.
TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(blueblueoutofblue @ May 22 2017, 03:51 PM)

this 2 days whatever fund i touch, it will sure drop like hell, it was like idle for same price around 2 to 3 days, then i just click buy, suddenly, within 1m, the price start to go down very faast
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You should talk to kmarc.
He claimed to have that "superpower" as well. biggrin.gif

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(archangel22 @ May 22 2017, 03:53 PM)
Oh I get that idea. Thanks.
But more importantly, I think understand why it's hard to grasp.

Pple are willing to invest in Eth bcse theyre confident that the proposed tech and commitment from devs. Im not saying it's bad per se. But it's just like investing in Microsoft, Apple, or Google stocks.
Bitcoiners, on the other hand, confident the technology you mentioned can still be implemented by using fiat or Bitcoin (once it is widely adopted currency)

I think it's just harder for ETH side. They need to stabilize the platform and also the currency.
ETH now pushing for tech proposition and platform capabilities, and then deal with currency/scalability later on. Bitcoin simply the other way around.
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With so many big conglomerates jumping onto the Ethereum bandwagon, I think it is getting too big to fail.
They will make it work somehow.

I'm betting big on both BTC and ETH.
I'm greedy that way.
whistling.gif
TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(Enigmatic @ May 22 2017, 04:00 PM)
And I'm not a millionaire yet.

Sigh. sad.gif
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Since Japan is one of the biggest adopters of bitcoin as legal tender, try thinking of your holdings in terms of Japanese yen.
You'll feel much better. thumbsup.gif

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(blueblueoutofblue @ May 22 2017, 04:02 PM)
weird, already 1hour, i trf 1 btc to polo from my wallet... still not yet in
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The last time I transferred from my hardware wallet to Poloniex, it only arrived after 9 days.
I hope you have better luck than I did.

QUOTE(lowya @ May 22 2017, 04:06 PM)
like a mugshot ah?

so is it possible to buy and transfer coins from one exchange to any type of wallet(s) without going through these verification processes?
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Yes, exactly like a mugshot.
This is now becoming an industry-wide practice among all large online exchanges, in an effort to weed out money laundering (or the large scale ones, anyway).
You guys are really big players.
USD 2k *per day* is plenty enough for small ikan bilis like me...... sad.gif
TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 04:52 PM

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Wishing I had a Korean bank account right now...... ETH is trading above USD 240 on Korean exchanges.

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 05:04 PM

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Aaaannndddd......here comes the panic sellers on ETH trying to cash in their profits.
Look at that bright red candle...! cool2.gif whistling.gif

TSwengherng
post May 22 2017, 10:58 PM

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QUOTE(b0rhui @ May 22 2017, 07:49 PM)
I'm starting off by buying BTC first. So on first page I'm seeing 4 options for us. Checked the rate and their rate is so high. On the other hand coinbox is rather low. I used to use it alot couple years back.

Can I check with anyone here if the site is still running good (trustable?)

EDIT: logged in my old account but couldnt top up anyway
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In many countries, bitcoin and other altcoins usually sell at a premium.
I have found that Malaysia is usually about 3 - 5% higher than the global average, sometimes even up to 8%.
Countries like Japan and Korea can go even higher than that.

TSwengherng
post May 23 2017, 01:27 AM

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QUOTE(b0rhui @ May 23 2017, 12:34 AM)
I think localbitcoin has a premium of around 10%, with each BTC sold at as low as 10.5k. Thoughts? Its normal or we've got better sites?
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Don't go for localbitcoins.
Go for either Xbit Asia or Luno, usually better rates.
Otherwise you can also ask jack2 here on this thread.
He sells direct to the buyer, if you are comfortable with that.
TSwengherng
post May 23 2017, 06:26 AM

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QUOTE(hjffgjng @ May 23 2017, 04:05 AM)
but luno prices that they selling is not the luno.com prices shown??

someone here(backpages) commenting the differences is like rm 500 a robbing???
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Your actual buy price will be different from the Luno website price because the website only quotes the average buy/sell price.
Since Malaysia always has a premium price over the global average, I'm not totally surprised that it'd be around RM500 more expensive.
With the global average over RM9500 now, RM500 is just a little over 5% premium, which is not too bad, I think.
Try Xbit Asia also.


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