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> Engaging a lawyer to advise on tenancy agreement

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TSMrsticker251
post Mar 8 2017, 12:54 PM, updated 7y ago

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Anyone has experience engaging a lawyer to vet and advise on tenancy agreement ? How much it will cost ? Any lawyer to recommend ?
shaniandras2787
post Mar 8 2017, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(Mrsticker251 @ Mar 8 2017, 12:54 PM)
Anyone has experience engaging a lawyer to vet and advise on tenancy agreement ? How much it will cost ? Any lawyer to recommend ?
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the prescribed rate for legal fees to prepare a tenancy agreement is 1/4 of the monthly rental, disbursements should be around RM300 - RM400... stamp duty excluded.
TSMrsticker251
post Mar 8 2017, 01:36 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Mar 8 2017, 01:33 PM)
the prescribed rate for legal fees to prepare a tenancy agreement is 1/4 of the monthly rental, disbursements should be around RM300 - RM400... stamp duty excluded.
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Thanks for that. Mine is mainly for the lawyer to advise on the agreement drafted by the tenant. Does the same charge applies ?
nookie188
post Mar 8 2017, 01:41 PM

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QUOTE(Mrsticker251 @ Mar 8 2017, 01:36 PM)
Thanks for that. Mine is mainly for the lawyer to advise on the agreement drafted by the tenant. Does the same charge applies ?
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usually tenancy legal fee is paid by the tenant..
- make sure you communicate this to your tenant before running off to hire a lawyer
TSMrsticker251
post Mar 8 2017, 07:50 PM

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QUOTE(nookie188 @ Mar 8 2017, 01:41 PM)
usually tenancy legal fee is  paid by the tenant..
- make sure you communicate this to your tenant  before running off to hire a lawyer
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Yup. But the tenant actually prepare the agreement. It is just that I would like a lawyer to look at it so that my rights are protected. Don't think the tenant will want to pay for this
nookie188
post Mar 8 2017, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(Mrsticker251 @ Mar 8 2017, 07:50 PM)
Yup. But the tenant actually prepare the agreement.  It is just that  I would like a lawyer to look at it so that my rights are protected. Don't think the tenant will want to pay for this
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am talking about industry practice here - usually its the owner that either prepares the TA with or without a lawyer and if legal fees is involved, this is chargeable to the tenant..

- at the end of the day, there has to be a mutual agreement as to who pays so talk to your tenant..


oxm8
post Mar 8 2017, 10:58 PM

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Agree with nookie188.

You want lawyer service, you have to pay...
hardly get lawyer that can give cheap <RM50 or free service for this esp if u deal with commercial rental...


hanhanhan
post Mar 15 2017, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(Mrsticker251 @ Mar 8 2017, 07:50 PM)
Yup. But the tenant actually prepare the agreement.  It is just that  I would like a lawyer to look at it so that my rights are protected. Don't think the tenant will want to pay for this
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same fees still apply (25% of monthly rental) if u want lawyer to vet through the agreement.
TSMrsticker251
post Mar 23 2017, 08:51 PM

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Just to update everyone. I did engage a lawyer to vet my ageeement. In the end didn't go ahead with the tenancy. But I thought getting the legal advice is worth it. A peace of mind
hanhanhan
post Mar 24 2017, 02:53 PM

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QUOTE(Mrsticker251 @ Mar 23 2017, 08:51 PM)
Just to update everyone. I did engage a lawyer to vet my ageeement. In the end didn't go ahead with the tenancy. But I thought getting the legal advice is worth it. A peace of mind
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i assume it's a commercial tenancy?

for house tenancy usually its pretty straightforward. but be careful on commercial / mall tenancies - usually the clauses cannot be changed so u will need to be aware of your obligations under the agreement.
TSMrsticker251
post Mar 28 2017, 08:19 PM

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QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Mar 24 2017, 02:53 PM)
i assume it's a commercial tenancy?

for house tenancy usually its pretty straightforward. but be careful on commercial / mall tenancies - usually the clauses cannot be changed so u will need to be aware of your obligations under the agreement.
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It is actually house tenancy. This company want to rent my place for short term accommodation to their guests visiting Malaysia. I went to check out the company and noted that it is newly set up. Plus they are asking me to replace a lot of furnitures. So I'm worried that things might go wrong and want to protect myself by having a lawyer to vet through the agreement.

Strangely in the end we cant agree on the T&C, so i asked them to look for another unit. Now my agent just replied that they agree to my T&C. I thought it's rather fishy since they should be able to find an unit fairly quick in this market. So I'm not sure if I want to go with them too



hanhanhan
post Mar 29 2017, 12:11 PM

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I'm guessing that it should be fairly simple on the terms:-

1. if u want, u can get new furniture, but insert a clause that they have to replace if spoil (fair wear and tear excepted) upon expiry of the term;
2. no sublet (but in reality it's difficult to enforce) - many companies use this to do airbnb business
3. payment of utilities bill every month and show evidence upon payment of rental

I dont think there's much to be disputed on in house tenancies, whether dealing with a company or individual.
ZZR-Pilot
post Mar 29 2017, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Mar 8 2017, 02:33 PM)
the prescribed rate for legal fees to prepare a tenancy agreement is 1/4 of the monthly rental, disbursements should be around RM300 - RM400... stamp duty excluded.
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Fook me... that's expensive!!

But it should only be a one-time thing, right? It only happens when the new tenant moves in, subsequent renewals you don't hv to re-engage a lawyer, instead just pay the stamp duty plus some running-around cost.

Been renting for a few years, my landlord charges me RM200 every time for the rental contract. My rent is RM1600, so that's way below 1/4 of the rental.
shaniandras2787
post Mar 29 2017, 02:04 PM

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QUOTE(ZZR-Pilot @ Mar 29 2017, 12:52 PM)
Fook me... that's expensive!!

But it should only be a one-time thing, right? It only happens when the new tenant moves in, subsequent renewals you don't hv to re-engage a lawyer, instead just pay the stamp duty plus some running-around cost.

Been renting for a few years, my landlord charges me RM200 every time for the rental contract. My rent is RM1600, so that's way below 1/4 of the rental.
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Well, professional services don't come cheap. If you want legal advise then you have to pay. I don't see people complaining to doctors when they are charged laugh.gif I think society's view on legal services have to change. Besides, i think vetting through legal documents are at least 10x more difficult and time consuming compared to what doctors do.

What doctors do nowadays are so repetitive that I think a 3 year old could recite and replay what doctors do.

Think of it this way, you are actually paying to ensure that your rights as an individual is protected. Just shake off that impression that "it's a standard document", it won't be standard when you are asked to vet through them.

Tenancy agreements are usually for two (2) or three (3) years and no more but of course with the option to renew and yes, if there are no change in terms to the tenancy then don't need to pay for the vetting fees again, just the upstamping with the relevant authorities.

Your landlord probably took a general "everything-goes" template and have you signed. The RM200.00 probably goes into his own pocket or something. Another scenario is where real estate agent also take care of the drafting... well, not "drafting" per se. Some real estate agents go around legal firms under the false pretense that they have a client and wants to see the draft first. Once the draft is forwarded, these unscrupulous real estate agents just disappeared and then use the draft as a template for future usage but little that they know, not everything general can be applicable.

Also, agreements get updated but stupid real estates like these don't know so when an old template is used and dispute arises, again, these real estate agent disappears.
ZZR-Pilot
post Mar 29 2017, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(shaniandras2787 @ Mar 29 2017, 03:04 PM)
Well, professional services don't come cheap. If you want legal advise then you have to pay. I don't see people complaining to doctors when they are charged laugh.gif

What doctors do nowadays are so repetitive that I think a 3 year old could recite and replay what doctors do.
Eh? Why are you whacking the medical profession?

Tsk... tsk... tsk....

And yet you're lamenting home buyers don't view paperwork lawyers positively.

This post has been edited by ZZR-Pilot: Mar 29 2017, 02:36 PM
shaniandras2787
post Mar 29 2017, 03:17 PM

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QUOTE(ZZR-Pilot @ Mar 29 2017, 02:34 PM)
Eh? Why are you whacking the medical profession?

Tsk... tsk... tsk....

And yet you're lamenting home buyers don't view paperwork lawyers positively.
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:haha: not whacking the medical profession la... just a general observation of the Malaysian public as a whole, which is at a very unhealthy level already. I viewed that doctors are given more credit than they should deserve which is why nowadays, quality of service provided by them is reaaaaaaallly bad and they charge super expensive because they are "doctors" -.-

Just want to rant abit because most doctors (even general practitioners) in clinics act like as if they are descended directly from God -.-

What connection are you trying to make by making your last statement?
TSMrsticker251
post Mar 29 2017, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Mar 29 2017, 12:11 PM)
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I'm guessing that it should be fairly simple on the terms:-

1. if u want, u can get new furniture, but insert a clause that they have to replace if spoil (fair wear and tear excepted) upon expiry of the term;
2. no sublet (but in reality it's difficult to enforce) - many companies use this to do airbnb business
3. payment of utilities bill every month and show evidence upon payment of rental

I dont think there's much to be disputed on in house tenancies, whether dealing with a company or individual.
*
You are right. I think the company is using it to do some airbnb thingy. That's why I think I probably won't proceed.
hanhanhan
post Mar 30 2017, 10:50 AM

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on a side note, why wouldn't you rent it to a company to do airbnb? I would think that they would take care and maintain the place even better than a normal tenant would, as their ratings and reviews will depend on the cleanliness of the place.
TSMrsticker251
post Mar 31 2017, 11:48 PM

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QUOTE(hanhanhan @ Mar 30 2017, 10:50 AM)
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on a side note, why wouldn't you rent it to a company to do airbnb? I would think that they would take care and maintain the place even better than a normal tenant would, as their ratings and reviews will depend on the cleanliness of the place.
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Yup. I did think of that. My main concern is that I don't know if airbnb is considered to be legal
hanhanhan
post Apr 3 2017, 03:59 PM

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it's a grey area for now. even if they decide to create new law to govern airbnb, i think it cannot be enforced fully and should be very easy to bypass it.

 

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