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 The making of the next auto giant: PSA group

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lowpro
post Mar 27 2017, 11:10 AM

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Anyway, this thread is about PSA. Wonder if anyone has insider info on what's happening. Any idea what's in the bid? Models offered to Proton? What's asked for - apart from the plant? What's available to PSA? All in the dark with just speculation and conjecture for now
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 27 2017, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(lowpro @ Mar 27 2017, 09:42 AM)
But was Suzuki even bidding in the first place?  hmm.gif
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My speculation: Suzuki is the back up plan. They do have a strategic partnership with DRB Hicom and Proton per se earlier with an MOU signed June 2015

If other bidder fails , they can fall back to that albeit on a different terms?

Like I said, my speculation.

Fall back can be a plan if all things fail , perhaps?

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Mar 27 2017, 01:29 PM
lowpro
post Mar 27 2017, 07:02 PM

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Here's some interesting cars that Peugeot has from it's JV in China with Dong Feng:

The 301 which could be a Persona replacement
The 308 sedan which could replace the Preve (Don't think we'll get the 308 hatch or 408 as those are retailed by Peugeot under Nasim)
The China only 3008 (based on the old European 3008) which could be Proton's crossover (they desperately need one now) https://www.peugeot.com.cn/showroom/3008/home.html

And maybe their European cars that are not sold here...

108 anyone? This could be Proton's A-segment challenger. Don't think we'll get the 208 which is the B-segment car from them as it is still sold by Nasim. Besides, the Iriz platform is still pretty new.
Or the European 4008 (which was based on the Mitsubishi ASX but now allowed for sale in Malaysia).

Just speculating for the fun of it.

This post has been edited by lowpro: Mar 27 2017, 07:04 PM
kadajawi
post Mar 28 2017, 01:44 AM

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QUOTE(lowpro @ Mar 27 2017, 07:02 PM)
Here's some interesting cars that Peugeot has from it's JV in China with Dong Feng:

The 301 which could be a Persona replacement
The 308 sedan which could replace the Preve (Don't think we'll get the 308 hatch or 408 as those are retailed by Peugeot under Nasim)
The China only 3008 (based on the old European 3008) which could be Proton's crossover (they desperately need one now) https://www.peugeot.com.cn/showroom/3008/home.html

And maybe their European cars that are not sold here...

108 anyone? This could be Proton's A-segment challenger. Don't think we'll get the 208 which is the B-segment car from them as it is still sold by Nasim. Besides, the Iriz platform is still pretty new.
Or the European 4008 (which was based on the Mitsubishi ASX but now allowed for sale in Malaysia).

Just speculating for the fun of it.
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The 301 is possible I suppose, but I'd highly doubt it since the Persona is really new, and the 301 is significantly older (2012 vs 2016 car). It might make more sense to replace the 301 with the Persona wink.gif

308 sedan... why would they? Competes with the 408. Also, the value in Proton isn't in a badge they can stick on their cars, Peugeot doesn't do that anyway. If anything, Peugeot will be building their cars for sale in Malaysia and ASEAN countries in the Proton factories, but with the Peugeot and Citroen badge. That way they can price them lower thanks to higher local content.

With the 108 Toyota has something to say too, we don't know what their agreements were.

Peugeot wants to move up market, to where VW is. Selling the exactly same supposed to be premium cars under a budget brand at big discount would hurt them, IMHO.

I could possibly see them filling up the Proton line-up with cars like a 2008 based crossover (B segment SUVs being very popular), but I doubt it will be a simple rebadge job. New design, new interior. Similar to the Opel Crossland X. PSA roots, but unique to Opel.

If the PSA deal goes through, I expect to see Proton cars all over the world. The Preve, Iriz, ...
lowpro
post Mar 28 2017, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(kadajawi @ Mar 28 2017, 01:44 AM)
The 301 is possible I suppose, but I'd highly doubt it since the Persona is really new, and the 301 is significantly older (2012 vs 2016 car). It might make more sense to replace the 301 with the Persona wink.gif

308 sedan... why would they? Competes with the 408. Also, the value in Proton isn't in a badge they can stick on their cars, Peugeot doesn't do that anyway. If anything, Peugeot will be building their cars for sale in Malaysia and ASEAN countries in the Proton factories, but with the Peugeot and Citroen badge. That way they can price them lower thanks to higher local content.

With the 108 Toyota has something to say too, we don't know what their agreements were.

Peugeot wants to move up market, to where VW is. Selling the exactly same supposed to be premium cars under a budget brand at big discount would hurt them, IMHO.

I could possibly see them filling up the Proton line-up with cars like a 2008 based crossover (B segment SUVs being very popular), but I doubt it will be a simple rebadge job. New design, new interior. Similar to the Opel Crossland X. PSA roots, but unique to Opel.

If the PSA deal goes through, I expect to see Proton cars all over the world. The Preve, Iriz, ...
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I hope to see them exported too. Sadly the only thing holding them back today is their engines that don't comply with Euro6 regulations thus, attracting heavy taxes wherever they are sold and making those cars not viable against more established brands what might be sold at even lower prices overseas. The cause of not being able to have such engines is the cost to develop those engines. Too much for a small manufacturer. Hopefully with Peugeot engines (and hopefully those Peugeot engineers have solved their infamous de-pollution problem), the brand can go much further than where they've been all this time. Body structure wise, those Proton cars are sound already and proven with the NCAP crash assessment tests.

Ah yes, I remember that bit about the 108 and Toyota. Toyota might want to protect Perodua's interests here. So, yeah, that might be a no-no but then, it's hard to tell if that would really be an issue today in view of Perodua's number 1 status here.

This post has been edited by lowpro: Mar 28 2017, 10:44 AM
wkc5657
post Mar 28 2017, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 27 2017, 01:28 PM)
My speculation: Suzuki is the back up plan. They do have a strategic partnership with DRB Hicom and Proton per se earlier with an MOU signed June 2015

If other bidder fails , they can fall back to that albeit on a different terms?

Like I said, my speculation.

Fall back can be a plan if all things fail , perhaps?
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huh??? Rebadging again meh....wakau....

But i don't mind the new swift with the 1L turbo booster jet engine thumbup.gif
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 28 2017, 05:18 PM

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http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...tnership-najib/

This time MO1 turn to speak
lowpro
post Mar 29 2017, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 28 2017, 05:18 PM)
Sort of just confirms that the two parties are in talks. Nothing indicative of the bias at the moment. Plus, the bid was just a few lines in the whole article. Still, it is interesting to see if Peugeot gets to further their intention for greater visibility in this region through Proton.

"PUTRAJAYA: French carmaker, Peugeot, is in serious talks with Malaysia's Proton Holdings Bhd on possible partnership, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

"It is not concluded yet but that's something which could be a possibility," Najib said at a joint press conference with visiting French President Francois Hollande at Perdana Putra here today."


TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 29 2017, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(lowpro @ Mar 29 2017, 07:50 AM)
Sort of just confirms that the two parties are in talks. Nothing indicative of the bias at the moment. Plus, the bid was just a few lines in the whole article. Still, it is interesting to see if Peugeot gets to further their intention for greater visibility in this region through Proton.

"PUTRAJAYA: French carmaker, Peugeot, is in serious talks with Malaysia's Proton Holdings Bhd on possible partnership, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

"It is not concluded yet but that's something which could be a possibility," Najib said at a joint press conference with visiting French President Francois Hollande at Perdana Putra here today."
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I wonder if he will confirm the same for Geeky, since he went all the way to China to talk to Mr comfortable Li Shu Fu

Here is the latest news


http://www.theedgemarkets.com/my/article/w...-says-drb-hicom


QUOTE
We need more time, says DRB-Hicom
By Adela Megan Willy / The Edge Financial Daily  | March 29, 2017 : 8:00 AM MYT 
This article first appeared in The Edge Financial Daily, on March 29, 2017.


KUALA LUMPUR: As market speculation gathers steam that DRB-Hicom Bhd’s talks with prospective foreign strategic partners (FSP) to buy an equity stake in ailing Proton Holdings Bhd have collapsed, the conglomerate is quick to refute the rumours.

DRB-Hicom issued a statement yesterday stressing that all bidders are still in the running to be selected as Proton’s FSP, and the group hopes to complete the search for its foreign partner by the first half of the year.

“There have been news reports stating that we are left with only one bidder. I can confirm that all parties that submitted bids for Proton are still in the running and DRB-Hicom is still evaluating these bids,” said managing director Datuk Seri Syed Faisal Albar in the statement.

However, the statement did not reveal the bidders’ names. It is understood that the bidders include China’s Geely Automobile Holdings and Europe’s second-largest carmaker Groupe PSA, which owns the Citroen, Peugeot, and DS brands.

DRB-Hicom, which wholly owns Proton Holdings, explained that its evaluation of the bidders vying to be the national carmarker’s FSP has to be a “detailed” one to turn the company around and make it competitive.

“Our intent is to turn around the fortunes of Proton. There are strengths and capabilities of the carmaker that, given a new proven partner that can offer technology, capabilities and new markets, will push Proton as a brand to be reckoned with,” said Syed Faisal.

“This is why our evaluation of the bidders needs to be a detailed one. Proton and the incoming foreign strategic partner must be able to create synergies that will ensure the success of this venture,” he said in a statement yesterday.

“We are going through the tail-end of this meticulous process, and we are looking forward to completing this search by the end of the first half of this year,” he added.

Talk that DRB-Hicom has stumbled into difficulty in concluding an agreement with PSA, which is said to be the only one left in the bid, has heightened as there was no announcement made on the deal following French President Francois Hollande’s meeting with Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Razak.

The state visit of Hollande is part of the president’s first visit to Asean which would include Singapore and Indonesia.

Nonetheless, Najib said French carmaker, PSA, is in serious talks with Malaysia’s Proton Holdings on a possible partnership.

“It is not concluded yet, but that’s something which could be a possibility,” Najib said at a joint press conference with visiting Hollande here yesterday.

Time does not seem to be on DRB-Hicom’s side considering Proton is bleeding badly amid the declining car sales coupled with its shrinking market share.

In February, it was reported that PSA had submitted a bid to buy a stake in Proton.

Meanwhile, Geely president An Conghui was quoted by the South China Morning Post confirming that the China-based automaker had decided to withdraw from the bid for Proton last week.

In an interview with Bloomberg earlier this month Geely founder and chairman Li Shufu said DRB-Hicom had kept changing its mind. “They keep changing, today it’s this, tomorrow it’s that. They haven’t decided what they want,” said Li.

In a new twist to the event, Reuters reported quoting sources that Geely is expected to bid as early as this week for a strategic partnership with Proton.


This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Mar 29 2017, 09:48 AM
wkc5657
post Mar 29 2017, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 29 2017, 08:45 AM)
I wonder if he will confirm the same for Geeky, since he went all the way to China to talk to Mr comfortable Li Shu Fu

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Meaning the earlier statement that Geely steps out of the game is a majorly distorted form of saying that their offer is the last offer and don't want to negotiate anymore? Take it or leave it?
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 29 2017, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Mar 29 2017, 01:38 PM)
Meaning the earlier statement that Geely steps out of the game is a majorly distorted form of saying that their offer is the last offer and don't want to negotiate anymore? Take it or leave it?
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Could be . Not sure. Dunno


What if the bidder namely Geely pull out and enter new bidder Volvo Malaysia?

Let's face it, associating with latter than the former in name has a better wow factor....Again my dumb speculation

This post has been edited by EnergyAnalyst: Mar 29 2017, 03:05 PM
tat3406
post Mar 29 2017, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 29 2017, 02:50 PM)
Could be . Not sure. Dunno
What if the bidder namely Geely pull out and enter new bidder Volvo Malaysia?

Let's face it, associating with latter than the former in name has a better wow factor....Again my dumb speculation
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wow, very bold speculation.
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 29 2017, 04:36 PM

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QUOTE(tat3406 @ Mar 29 2017, 03:37 PM)
wow, very bold speculation.
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I warn you though... I am shooting blanks
wkc5657
post Mar 29 2017, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 29 2017, 02:50 PM)
Could be . Not sure. Dunno
What if the bidder namely Geely pull out and enter new bidder Volvo Malaysia?

Let's face it, associating with latter than the former in name has a better wow factor....Again my dumb speculation
*
Wa...then Swedish Automobile Assembly plant will become redundant if that's the case....what a sad predicament for the 1st car assembler in Malaysia automotive history....

Keep in mind that this is the ONLY plant outside Volvo's HQ that can put together of their prized T8 hybrid drivetrain and also the very advanced laser welding line. The plant is also some sort of regional hub for the region if i'm not mistaken.
zaman_chem
post Mar 29 2017, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(lowpro @ Mar 29 2017, 07:50 AM)
Sort of just confirms that the two parties are in talks. Nothing indicative of the bias at the moment. Plus, the bid was just a few lines in the whole article. Still, it is interesting to see if Peugeot gets to further their intention for greater visibility in this region through Proton.

"PUTRAJAYA: French carmaker, Peugeot, is in serious talks with Malaysia's Proton Holdings Bhd on possible partnership, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

"It is not concluded yet but that's something which could be a possibility," Najib said at a joint press conference with visiting French President Francois Hollande at Perdana Putra here today."
*
high possibility since French govt is one of PSA major shareholder
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 29 2017, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(wkc5657 @ Mar 29 2017, 05:06 PM)
Wa...then Swedish Automobile Assembly plant will become redundant if that's the case....what a sad predicament for the 1st car assembler in Malaysia automotive history....

Keep in mind that this is the ONLY plant outside Volvo's HQ that can put together of their prized T8 hybrid drivetrain and also the very advanced laser welding line. The plant is also some sort of regional hub for the region if i'm not mistaken.
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Not if Proton plants will be used a s RHD hub for sister company Lynk & Co.
lowpro
post Mar 29 2017, 06:38 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 29 2017, 05:32 PM)
Not if Proton plants will be used a s RHD hub for sister company Lynk & Co.
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Yup, was reported that Geely wanted to use the plant for RHD versions of Lynk & Co
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 29 2017, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(zaman_chem @ Mar 29 2017, 05:11 PM)
high possibility since French govt is one of PSA major shareholder
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http://www.swfinstitute.org/swf-article/bp...e-in-psa-group/

The French government stake has been sold to a French sovereign wealth fund

http://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.com/n...n-fund/57861001
zaman_chem
post Mar 29 2017, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 29 2017, 11:04 PM)
Bpifrance still own by govt though more like Khazanah
TSEnergyAnalyst
post Mar 29 2017, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(zaman_chem @ Mar 29 2017, 11:13 PM)
Bpifrance still own by govt though more like Khazanah
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You have a point.

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