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Which is a Better Subwoofer combination
 
2 x Klipsch R-115SW [ 2 ] ** [11.76%]
2 x SVS PB2000 [ 8 ] ** [47.06%]
1 x SVS SB16 Ultra [ 7 ] ** [41.18%]
Total Votes: 17
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melvyn
post Feb 27 2017, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(VagueConcerns @ Feb 24 2017, 12:20 PM)
If this is primarily for movies, then we better look at which choices are the closest to meet the THX or Dolby standards. You might as well aim for it, since you would want maximum movie enjoyment for the money. What better way than getting closer to what the movie is supposed to sound like?

They all meet the minimum requirement for the bass extension; -6dB at 20Hz. The Klipsch have been reviewed and there are measured response available by those who have reviewed them. They are actually quite flat to 20Hz. I think both SVS are capable of sub 20Hz at -3dB in room.

Next requirement, the subwoofer must be able to reach peaks of a minimum of 115dB, anywhere between the lowest roll-off point to the THX standard of 80Hz low-pass. This is at a distance of about 3 meters according to the standard. This is to ensure that the subwoofer has enough headroom. Because if you set the HT management to "small" all contents under the specified 80Hz low-pass filtering that are supposed to go to the satellites will be handled by the sub, and those levels are usually louder than the sub-bass contents and occur more often. The more satellites you have, the more bass signal is passed on to the sub. The reference is 105dB peak for the satellites, but the extra 10dB for the subwoofer is made just for this scenario.

Now, the Klipsch is said to be able to do 122dB, which if no distance or reference standard is specified, assumed to be at 1m (as with most measurement standard). At 3m, a single R-115SW juuuuust manages to do so, but it will be at full power. So clearly to come closer to the THX standard more comfortably, you would need more than one. The SB-16 has more than 3 times the continuous power rating (1500W) of the Klipsch, so may have plenty more headroom. So while the SB-16 can reach the 115dB requirement just fine, they come at a cost of dynamics. They are no doubt very capable subwoofers, but if you look at the manual of the SB16 and PB2000, even they have placement guides for dual subwoofers, which is saying something.

It has been a while that I've read up on those standards so some info might be off. But the takeaway lesson is that no 'single' subwoofer available in the market is able to meet the minimum standards with ease. They have to be in multiples regardless of their capabilities. Because when people make movies, they have movie theatres in mind, not home theatres. They don't even water it down for Blu-ray releases. Why would they? In movie theatres there are usually four 18-inch subwoofers, and some can have 8. Some even have horn subwoofers so large, you can stand inside the horn mouth, and they usually don't have just one of those in one viewing hall either.
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this explains even more. thanks bro.
TSKent3888
post Feb 27 2017, 10:45 PM

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From: Denai Alam | Kota Damansara |TTDI


QUOTE(VagueConcerns @ Feb 24 2017, 12:20 PM)
If this is primarily for movies, then we better look at which choices are the closest to meet the THX or Dolby standards. You might as well aim for it, since you would want maximum movie enjoyment for the money. What better way than getting closer to what the movie is supposed to sound like?

They all meet the minimum requirement for the bass extension; -6dB at 20Hz. The Klipsch have been reviewed and there are measured response available by those who have reviewed them. They are actually quite flat to 20Hz. I think both SVS are capable of sub 20Hz at -3dB in room.

Next requirement, the subwoofer must be able to reach peaks of a minimum of 115dB, anywhere between the lowest roll-off point to the THX standard of 80Hz low-pass. This is at a distance of about 3 meters according to the standard. This is to ensure that the subwoofer has enough headroom. Because if you set the HT management to "small" all contents under the specified 80Hz low-pass filtering that are supposed to go to the satellites will be handled by the sub, and those levels are usually louder than the sub-bass contents and occur more often. The more satellites you have, the more bass signal is passed on to the sub. The reference is 105dB peak for the satellites, but the extra 10dB for the subwoofer is made just for this scenario.

Now, the Klipsch is said to be able to do 122dB, which if no distance or reference standard is specified, assumed to be at 1m (as with most measurement standard). At 3m, a single R-115SW juuuuust manages to do so, but it will be at full power. So clearly to come closer to the THX standard more comfortably, you would need more than one. The SB-16 has more than 3 times the continuous power rating (1500W) of the Klipsch, so may have plenty more headroom. So while the SB-16 can reach the 115dB requirement just fine, they come at a cost of dynamics. They are no doubt very capable subwoofers, but if you look at the manual of the SB16 and PB2000, even they have placement guides for dual subwoofers, which is saying something.

It has been a while that I've read up on those standards so some info might be off. But the takeaway lesson is that no 'single' subwoofer available in the market is able to meet the minimum standards with ease. They have to be in multiples regardless of their capabilities. Because when people make movies, they have movie theatres in mind, not home theatres. They don't even water it down for Blu-ray releases. Why would they? In movie theatres there are usually four 18-inch subwoofers, and some can have 8. Some even have horn subwoofers so large, you can stand inside the horn mouth, and they usually don't have just one of those in one viewing hall either.
*
Thank you very much for your detailed explanation, I need some time to digest these useful info, lol. I get your point of having 2 subs to balance things out. Ideally is to have 2xSB-16 if money is no object, but it is, second option should be 2xSB2000 then. Since Klipsch is struggling to meet THX/Dolby standards from what you mentioned.
VagueConcerns
post Feb 27 2017, 11:21 PM

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QUOTE(Kent3888 @ Feb 27 2017, 10:45 PM)
Thank you very much for your detailed explanation, I need some time to digest these useful info, lol. I get your point of having 2 subs to balance things out. Ideally is to have 2xSB-16 if money is no object, but it is, second option should be 2xSB2000 then. Since Klipsch is struggling to meet THX/Dolby standards from what you mentioned.
*
You are welcome.
That is just a general guideline. To test it out you do need an SPL meter and the right procedure. There are receivers with pink noise test tones to set the reference level. If the SVS SB2000 are still too expensive, and if the Klipsch is considerably more cost friendly, then they are fine. While it is best to aim for THX, if it is too cost prohibitive you can loosen the requirement a bit (perhaps, sit a little closer?). THX reference is just the industry standard so that we can aim for something when setting up for the "best" home theatre audio without the non-scientific-snake-oil-mumbo-jumbo. It is strict and is not in any way consumer friendly in terms of cost. We are not required to follow them, but everyone is encouraged to try and reach them. It's like an open marathon. laugh.gif

BTW just for info, if you see a THX label on a multimedia system for desktop, it means that they meet the THX reference standards only for desktop. Not suitable for a conventional home theater with a big screen. Another one, THX Compact is for rooms that are 1000 cu.ft, where listening distances are under 3m. THX Select is for large-ish rooms (can't remember the room size) where you can sit as far as 3.5m maximum. THX Ultra is for a larger room where you can sit at a minimum distance of 3.5m. And then there is the THX Dominus.

But, all of those follow the exact same basic reference. Only differing in which room they are certified to be used in for optimum performance.

This post has been edited by VagueConcerns: Feb 27 2017, 11:53 PM
TSKent3888
post Mar 13 2017, 04:42 PM

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Thank you guys for the advise, got myself the SB16-ultra. Now considering should get a SB2000 or PB2000 to put in the rear of the room to balance out. Currently using the Ported Klipsch for the rear


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VagueConcerns
post Mar 13 2017, 07:31 PM

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Nice!
Later you can upgrade so both are SB-16. brows.gif

Or not. If their frequency extension is quite close (-3dB within I dunno, 5Hz from each other?), and that the "weaker" sub isn't pushed out of its comfort zone, you should be fine.

This post has been edited by VagueConcerns: Mar 13 2017, 07:32 PM
Calebraj
post Mar 14 2017, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(Kent3888 @ Mar 13 2017, 04:42 PM)
Thank you guys for the advise, got myself the SB16-ultra. Now considering should get a SB2000 or PB2000 to put in the rear of the room to balance out. Currently using the Ported Klipsch for the rear
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good buy!
ascension
post Mar 14 2017, 07:26 PM

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Nice, voted for the Klipsch since you already had one ;p Personally using Rythmik though. Heard the Klipsch before, pretty good actually, so big!

This post has been edited by ascension: Mar 14 2017, 07:27 PM
wgpictures
post Apr 10 2019, 12:40 PM

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Since it's about Subwoofer here, in case anyone is looking for a SB1000, I have one to let go ( want to upgrade ). Text me for details if interested. Thanks.

 

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