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Which is a Better Subwoofer combination
 
2 x Klipsch R-115SW [ 2 ] ** [11.76%]
2 x SVS PB2000 [ 8 ] ** [47.06%]
1 x SVS SB16 Ultra [ 7 ] ** [41.18%]
Total Votes: 17
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TSKent3888
post Feb 21 2017, 02:44 AM, updated 3y ago

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Area to cover is 580sqft would say around 5,800cubft. Mostly for Movies, Fronts alrdy using Klipsch, not planning to play super loud to wake neighbour or tear down the wall. Considering both sealed and ported sub

Klipsch R-115SW
The Reference R-115SW subwoofer is the perfect combination of power, sophisticated and heart-pounding bass. Packing a serious punch, the R-115SW will not only wake your neighbors, it'll piss them off. The way only Klipsch can.

Features:
15" spun-copper Cerametallic woofer
All-digital amplifier delivers 800 watts of dynamic power
Front-firing slot port with exclusive internal flare technology.
L/R line-level/LFE RCA inputs for compatibility with most receivers
For a simple wireless connection, add an optional Klipsch WA-2 Wireless Subwoofer Kit
Dimensions: 21.5" H x 19.5" W x 22.3" D
Brushed black polymer veneer cabinet with satin painted plinth


SVS PB-16ULTRA

An unrelenting passion for awesome bass performance and engineering perfection guided every aspect of the SB16-Ultra subwoofer’s design. Groundbreaking technology, rigorous design and extreme testing in real world and laboratory environments allowed SVS to achieve massive output levels, extreme low frequency extension, near-perfect frequency response accuracy, and pinpoint transient response. The culmination of all SVS design advancements, SB16-Ultra represents the greatest leap forward in performance and innovation since the inception of subwoofers.

QUICK SPECS
16"DRIVER
1500 watts RMS (5000+ watts peak)AMPLIFIER
16-460Hz ±3 dBFREQ. RESPONSE
20" (H) 19.5" (W) 20.1" (D)DIMENSION
122 lbsWEIGHT
chanhin
post Feb 21 2017, 01:07 PM

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It depends on your taste. Personally I prefer deep bass rather than strong bass.

Btw, SVS is good in many countries but not Malaysia due to overpriced a lot, making it no more value for $$$ (applicable to Malaysia only). This brand is a rare incident of over priced a lot for Malaysia. Anyone any idea?
fx20
post Feb 21 2017, 01:15 PM

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I own an Anthology Gallo CL-12 from USA. It was great for music and movie. Very articulate bass. But can't go as deep as SVS's.

However The bass level is very repsonsive to my friend SVS. You can see how it is looks like here

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spe...fer-review.html

Reason for a keeper: it cost a small fraction of SVS only.
VagueConcerns
post Feb 21 2017, 01:49 PM

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If you have the money, you should get 2 subwoofers.

Multiple subwoofers offer you the flexibility of placement. You can place them wherever that is appropriate to get rid of the null spots in the room. Perfect if your listening spot is at a null, or that you have a larger sitting area for the whole family to sit and watch a movie. You can get a more linear bass response over a broader area in your room, and most probably without having to place the subs at inconvenient places (such as in front of the TV cabinet) to get an optimum power response.

Plus, you get smoother sub bass output and more sensitivity. 2 subs give you +6dB of extra sensitivity (if both are powered separately and not connected in series), so you don't have to turn up the volume of each sub as loud. So each sub is fed less power, but combined outputs almost twice as loud; an easier load for each, and gives a little more headroom before reaching distortion. So you don't have to worry about the occasional 'surprise' extra loud bursts of bass that some movies may have.

IDEALLY you would have 2 of those SVS 16" subs. They have a nice roll off that would usually integrate better in a room. But, given their price, two of the other options would work just fine, and have the advantages I said above.

This post has been edited by VagueConcerns: Feb 21 2017, 02:00 PM
bad2928
post Feb 21 2017, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(chanhin @ Feb 21 2017, 01:07 PM)
It depends on your taste. Personally I prefer deep bass rather than strong bass.

Btw, SVS is good in many countries but not Malaysia due to overpriced a lot, making it no more value for $$$ (applicable to Malaysia only). This brand is a rare incident of over priced a lot for Malaysia. Anyone any idea?
*
performance over price icon_idea.gif ,selling likes hot cake here even used sub brows.gif

This post has been edited by bad2928: Feb 21 2017, 08:15 PM
melvyn
post Feb 22 2017, 07:52 PM

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QUOTE(bad2928 @ Feb 21 2017, 08:11 PM)
performance over price  icon_idea.gif ,selling likes hot cake here even used sub  brows.gif
*
partly true but still a very good sub tho.
melvyn
post Feb 22 2017, 07:57 PM

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QUOTE(Kent3888 @ Feb 21 2017, 02:44 AM)
Area to cover is 580sqft would say around 5,800cubft. Mostly for Movies, Fronts alrdy using Klipsch, not planning to play super loud to wake neighbour or tear down the wall. Considering both sealed and ported sub

Klipsch R-115SW
The Reference R-115SW subwoofer is the perfect combination of power, sophisticated and heart-pounding bass. Packing a serious punch, the R-115SW will not only wake your neighbors, it'll piss them off. The way only Klipsch can.

Features:
15" spun-copper Cerametallic woofer
All-digital amplifier delivers 800 watts of dynamic power
Front-firing slot port with exclusive internal flare technology.
L/R line-level/LFE RCA inputs for compatibility with most receivers
For a simple wireless connection, add an optional Klipsch WA-2 Wireless Subwoofer Kit
Dimensions: 21.5" H x 19.5" W x 22.3" D
Brushed black polymer veneer cabinet with satin painted plinth
SVS PB-16ULTRA

An unrelenting passion for awesome bass performance and engineering perfection guided every aspect of the SB16-Ultra subwoofer’s design. Groundbreaking technology, rigorous design and extreme testing in real world and laboratory environments allowed SVS to achieve massive output levels, extreme low frequency extension, near-perfect frequency response accuracy, and pinpoint transient response. The culmination of all SVS design advancements, SB16-Ultra represents the greatest leap forward in performance and innovation since the inception of subwoofers.

QUICK SPECS
16"DRIVER
1500 watts RMS (5000+ watts peak)AMPLIFIER
16-460Hz ±3 dBFREQ. RESPONSE
20" (H) 19.5" (W) 20.1" (D)DIMENSION
122 lbsWEIGHT
*
Do you really need 2 units of Klipsch R-115SW for a 580sqf room? it's going to be earthshaking bro.

VagueConcerns
post Feb 23 2017, 01:43 AM

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QUOTE(melvyn @ Feb 22 2017, 07:57 PM)
Do you really need 2 units of Klipsch R-115SW for a 580sqf room? it's going to be earthshaking bro.
*
He can dial each of them down. So for the equivalent volume of a single sub, the 2 subwoofer cones don't have to travel as much.

This post has been edited by VagueConcerns: Feb 23 2017, 01:43 AM
fx20
post Feb 23 2017, 07:54 AM

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QUOTE(melvyn @ Feb 22 2017, 07:57 PM)
Do you really need 2 units of Klipsch R-115SW for a 580sqf room? it's going to be earthshaking bro.
*
Dual sub ensure even low freqy distribution you the room. Sub are not meant to be louad and earthshaking but to complement the ultra low frequency ambient.
fx20
post Feb 23 2017, 07:55 AM

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QUOTE(VagueConcerns @ Feb 23 2017, 01:43 AM)
He can dial each of them down. So for the equivalent volume of a single sub, the 2 subwoofer cones don't have to travel as much.
*
Then if not tuned probably, they are subjected to harmonic distortion.
TSKent3888
post Feb 23 2017, 08:34 AM

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From: Denai Alam | Kota Damansara |TTDI


Seems like all strongly support SVS, none for Klipsch here. Lol.... think I gotta get rid of my R115 and work my way towards SVS. Mayb I will try to audition single SB16U vs dual PB2000. Think it's a matter of going deeeeep with the SB16U or even bass thru the floor with 2xPB2000
dirtrun
post Feb 23 2017, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(chanhin @ Feb 21 2017, 01:07 PM)
It depends on your taste. Personally I prefer deep bass rather than strong bass.

Btw, SVS is good in many countries but not Malaysia due to overpriced a lot, making it no more value for $$$ (applicable to Malaysia only). This brand is a rare incident of over priced a lot for Malaysia. Anyone any idea?
*
Tats becos its a B&M shop brand here in Bolehland wif appointed distros.. In USA, its Internet Sales - definitely cheaper there..
Same as Sgp, once got appointed Distro, prices went north.. Nonetheless, its a decent sub..
In defence, our RM is not favorable to any outside brands.. So any made in Malaysia decent sub?

Id like to add Rhythmik to the brands of decent [but-not-cheap-in-Malaysia] subs..

sad.gif

fx20
post Feb 23 2017, 09:18 AM

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QUOTE(dirtrun @ Feb 23 2017, 09:03 AM)
Tats becos its a B&M shop brand here in Bolehland wif appointed distros.. In USA, its Internet Sales - definitely cheaper there..
Same as Sgp, once got appointed Distro, prices went north.. Nonetheless, its a decent sub..
In defence, our RM is not favorable to any outside brands.. So any made in Malaysia decent sub?

Id like to add Rhythmik to the brands of decent [but-not-cheap-in-Malaysia] subs..

sad.gif
*
I guess yamaha and pioneer sub are made in malaysia.

I have learned from a forumer there is a ELAC sub at style laser with app eq.
VagueConcerns
post Feb 23 2017, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(fx20 @ Feb 23 2017, 07:55 AM)
Then if not tuned probably, they are subjected to harmonic distortion.
*
I'm sure all those sub choices are fine.
melvyn
post Feb 23 2017, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(VagueConcerns @ Feb 23 2017, 01:43 AM)
He can dial each of them down. So for the equivalent volume of a single sub, the 2 subwoofer cones don't have to travel as much.
*
what do u mean by "2 subwoofer cones don't have to travel as much"...i don't get it. confused.gif
melvyn
post Feb 23 2017, 01:00 PM

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QUOTE(fx20 @ Feb 23 2017, 07:54 AM)
Dual sub ensure even low freqy distribution you the room. Sub are not meant to be louad and earthshaking but to complement the ultra low frequency ambient.
*
I understand the low frequency distribution and of course 2 is definitely better than 1 sub in terms to complement the low frequencey but in this case, TS is comparing it between 2 x 15" klipcsh / 1 x SVS SB16 Ultra and 2 x SVS PB2000

Frequency response:
SVS SB16 16-460Hz
SVS PB2000 17-260 Hz
Klipcsh 18-125Hz

On paper obviously SB16 has the lowest Freq response, how will 2 units of klipcsh or PB2000 get any lower than that? i do agree that when i comes to sound pressure level, two units of sub is definitely better than one. Please help me out...i really don't get it, fine tuning or calibration can lower down the frequency even more confused.gif
sonerin
post Feb 23 2017, 01:35 PM

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Think of sound is like water. How you want to fill example 500cc of space with the water. The sub think of it like water source. Pouring from 2 source of course will fill the space better than one. 😂
VagueConcerns
post Feb 23 2017, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(melvyn @ Feb 23 2017, 12:43 PM)
what do u mean by "2 subwoofer cones don't have to travel as much"...i don't get it. confused.gif
*
Because 2 subwoofers in parallel (or in this case an equivalent of parallel connected as they are both individually powered) are louder than one, each subwoofer would only need to be "half" (it is only loosely used here) as loud.

To get volumes to be louder, the amplitude of the waves would need to be higher. So, the farther the subwoofer pushes the air, the higher the amplitude of the wave, therefore the louder the sound gets. Of course there is a limit to how low a frequency it can produce until it is no longer able to pressurise the air in the room to make audible bass no matter how far the speaker cone travels.

Below is a comparison picture of predicted excursions of a dual woofer setup I am planing on building, both graphs showing excursion levels at 90dB at 1m. The one that has TWO of the bass units playing in parallel would need to be dialled down to match the volume of a single unit. If I kept the amount of power, the volume would be 96dB. The excursion would drop as the result of the drop in power requirement.

user posted image

EDIT: For extra clarity, the one on the left (single bass unit, one channel) require 0.3W at a 4 Ohm load to reach 90dB. The one on the right (TWO bass units, one in each channel) require only about 0.1W to reach 90dB. To those working with voltage, it is around 1.1V and 0.6V respectively. So the reduced power results in reduced excursion.

I forgot to mention another advantage of reduced excursion; better transient response and quicker response to changes in bass. The woofer diapragm would be able to stop quicker (they don't linger after bass has stopped), and react quicker to changes if it hadn't travelled at a further distance. It's logical isn't it? A woofer that has travelled 3mm forward would require less time (and therefore the less acceleration) to travel backwards, than one that has travelled 6mm. Remember, a subwoofer diaphragm is MUCH heavier than a regular full-range speaker diaphragm. A 15-inch subwoofer cone can easily weigh over 150g. Starting and stopping that amount of mass at such long distances is difficult and is always a compromise if you only have one to cover all the bass.

This post has been edited by VagueConcerns: Feb 23 2017, 05:18 PM
melvyn
post Feb 23 2017, 06:36 PM

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QUOTE(VagueConcerns @ Feb 23 2017, 01:44 PM)
Because 2 subwoofers in parallel (or in this case an equivalent of parallel connected as they are both individually powered) are louder than one, each subwoofer would only need to be "half" (it is only loosely used here) as loud.

To get volumes to be louder, the amplitude of the waves would need to be higher. So, the farther the subwoofer pushes the air, the higher the amplitude of the wave, therefore the louder the sound gets. Of course there is a limit to how low a frequency it can produce until it is no longer able to pressurise the air in the room to make audible bass no matter how far the speaker cone travels.

Below is a comparison picture of predicted excursions of a dual woofer setup I am planing on building, both graphs showing excursion levels at 90dB at 1m. The one that has TWO of the bass units playing in parallel would need to be dialled down to match the volume of a single unit. If I kept the amount of power, the volume would be 96dB. The excursion would drop as the result of the drop in power requirement.

user posted image

EDIT: For extra clarity, the one on the left (single bass unit, one channel) require 0.3W at a 4 Ohm load to reach 90dB. The one on the right (TWO bass units, one in each channel) require only about 0.1W to reach 90dB. To those working with voltage, it is around 1.1V and 0.6V respectively. So the reduced power results in reduced excursion.

I forgot to mention another advantage of reduced excursion; better transient response and quicker response to changes in bass. The woofer diapragm would be able to stop quicker (they don't linger after bass has stopped), and react quicker to changes if it hadn't travelled at a further distance. It's logical isn't it? A woofer that has travelled 3mm forward would require less time (and therefore the less acceleration) to travel backwards, than one that has travelled 6mm. Remember, a subwoofer diaphragm is MUCH heavier than a regular full-range speaker diaphragm. A 15-inch subwoofer cone can easily weigh over 150g. Starting and stopping that amount of mass at such long distances is difficult and is always a compromise if you only have one to cover all the bass.
*
thanks for the explaination, it is a bit technical but i get the idea.
VagueConcerns
post Feb 24 2017, 12:20 PM

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If this is primarily for movies, then we better look at which choices are the closest to meet the THX or Dolby standards. You might as well aim for it, since you would want maximum movie enjoyment for the money. What better way than getting closer to what the movie is supposed to sound like?

They all meet the minimum requirement for the bass extension; -6dB at 20Hz. The Klipsch have been reviewed and there are measured response available by those who have reviewed them. They are actually quite flat to 20Hz. I think both SVS are capable of sub 20Hz at -3dB in room.

Next requirement, the subwoofer must be able to reach peaks of a minimum of 115dB, anywhere between the lowest roll-off point to the THX standard of 80Hz low-pass. This is at a distance of about 3 meters according to the standard. This is to ensure that the subwoofer has enough headroom. Because if you set the HT management to "small" all contents under the specified 80Hz low-pass filtering that are supposed to go to the satellites will be handled by the sub, and those levels are usually louder than the sub-bass contents and occur more often. The more satellites you have, the more bass signal is passed on to the sub. The reference is 105dB peak for the satellites, but the extra 10dB for the subwoofer is made just for this scenario.

Now, the Klipsch is said to be able to do 122dB, which if no distance or reference standard is specified, assumed to be at 1m (as with most measurement standard). At 3m, a single R-115SW juuuuust manages to do so, but it will be at full power. So clearly to come closer to the THX standard more comfortably, you would need more than one. The SB-16 has more than 3 times the continuous power rating (1500W) of the Klipsch, so may have plenty more headroom. So while the SB-16 can reach the 115dB requirement just fine, they come at a cost of dynamics. They are no doubt very capable subwoofers, but if you look at the manual of the SB16 and PB2000, even they have placement guides for dual subwoofers, which is saying something.

It has been a while that I've read up on those standards so some info might be off. But the takeaway lesson is that no 'single' subwoofer available in the market is able to meet the minimum standards with ease. They have to be in multiples regardless of their capabilities. Because when people make movies, they have movie theatres in mind, not home theatres. They don't even water it down for Blu-ray releases. Why would they? In movie theatres there are usually four 18-inch subwoofers, and some can have 8. Some even have horn subwoofers so large, you can stand inside the horn mouth, and they usually don't have just one of those in one viewing hall either.

This post has been edited by VagueConcerns: Feb 24 2017, 12:26 PM

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