QUOTE(MUM @ Apr 18 2018, 10:19 AM)
As Sir John Templeton aptly says, "History shows that time, not timing, is the key to investment success. Therefore, the best time to buy stocks is when you have money."
FundSuperMart v18 (FSM) MY : Online UT Platform, UT DIY : Babystep to Investing :D
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Apr 21 2018, 08:50 AM
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#1
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165 posts Joined: Jul 2009 |
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Apr 25 2018, 04:17 PM
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#2
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QUOTE(real55555 @ Apr 25 2018, 02:41 PM) I think the purpose of DCA is to invest in a disciplined manner with emphasis on regular investment within a stipulated time frame ie every week/month with less emphasis on market condition. And also in order for DCA to work properly, liquidity is a must. So for you to say stop all dca because you foresee the market is on a downturn in the medium run defeat the purpose of DCA. Maybe you can reduce the amount for now to do your DCA but not totally stop your investment. |
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May 3 2018, 02:47 PM
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#3
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Can I ask a quick question please.
I been buying FSM funds since a year back, the profit fluctuate throughout the year. The funds used to have green profit, and now all red. I thought fund is something we buy and hold and keep on buying and keep on holding? But now it seems like I should sell if when its green to earn profit, and buy again and when it's green sell again? What exactly is the 'correct' way to buy funds? |
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May 3 2018, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ May 3 2018, 02:51 PM) No correct or wrong way... some people "trade" the fund by buying in and out. Others buy and keep long term... Hi Capt,It all depend on which style suits you best. If u plan to buy and sell often, u must be damn sure that your timing of the market is good. I don't want to buy and sell often as I am not really pro in investing. but I am just wondering how the fund works? I remembered seeing the fund will take the profit and re-invest into the fund annually. So my profit won't increase, but the units I hold for that particular fund will increase, is that correct? What I am worrying about is, if i kept on buy, hold, and repeat for 10 years. Would I be seeing what is happening today? all red? my profit fluctuate and in the end, I might even making loses? |
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May 3 2018, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ May 3 2018, 03:17 PM) Good that you know that it is not easy to time the investments like a pro... so we do the next best thing: spread out the investments as long as possible, in as many times as possible. Chances are that 50% will be well timed, 50% not. Duly Noted, thanks Mr.j.passing.by. Say if the total amount to invest or to save is 100k... then spread the 100k into 100 months or many more months with 1k or less every month. Then you will also see the reason to hold and not sell... since you are going to increase the investment every month and will be buying more nest month. It will then be very fickle to sell this month, when there is a plan to buy more next month. Unless of course, you know for sure what will happen next week or month... so you sell first then buy back again. Which bring us back to the start of this post... QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 3 2018, 03:20 PM) Never forget that unit trust is still a basket of stocks. You never know if after 10 years when you need the money, it's a bear market like in 2008. Will you withdraw that time? Wow, thanks for the in-depth explanation and the shared links. Number 2 and 4 seems reasonable, really appreciated it Mr.Ramjade Fund works by collecting a group of people's money and buy stocks or bonds. Imagine trying to buy google yourself. It's expensive on your own but it's cheap for a fund as they have access to millions of RM/dollars. When the fund buy, what the fund buy, when they are sell are decided by a fund manager. The fund manager can be a single person or can be a group of people. Read this for more info http://www.moneysense.gov.sg/understanding...nit-trusts.aspx I don't know what you are talking about "fund will take the profit and re-invest into the fund annually." You can get your profit by selling the funds you own. If you don't sell, it's profit on paper which can be wipe out in the next big bear market. Yes, you can make losses in the future as mentioned if you see in the depths of a bear market, good luck. However, in the long term, market always goes up. The question is how far up? When to sell? 1) you can sell when you need the money - a rather bad thing to do if you ask me (eg selling at the depths of 2008) 2) sell after it reach certain % profit say 18% profit. 3) sell if the fund is under performing it's peers (other fund which invest in same sector) 4) sell and re balance once a year once it goes above your allocation. Say yo u put in 20% into equities but because market is red hot, your allocation becomes 30%. You can sell off your 10% so that your equities portion come back down to 20%. For me, I choose 2). Easier to carry out. For funds like PRS which cannot be sold off, just topup when market is down. You have to know why the market is down. Interest rate going up, chicken headed investors want a bigger margin of safety for stocks. Eg, US 10 years treasury can give 3%, why should they invest in a stock which can give 3% dividend yield? The stock giving 3% dividend yield must be able to give 5% dividend yield for it to be attractive. To get 5% yeld, the price have no choice but to come down. Then there's also increasing rates means business need to fork out more money to pay loans, which means less money available for dividends to shareholders, hence the price comes down. If you have bought on an earlier date, most likely your portfolio will still be in the green (like mine). But if you have been buying last year (quite near the peak/peak), most likely you will be in the red. Your only choice is 1) sit tight, don't do anything 2) average down your buying price and also, I think I should do both (sit tight and put more in, i guess), thanks again! QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ May 3 2018, 04:09 PM) i think what u want to know is dividend distribution.. all dividend is reinvested back into the fund and the NAV will be adjusted accordingly. However dividend in UT doesnt work like stocks so you dont actually gain anything in real life. It just makes the NAV smaller n u get more units to reflect the same value. U can see the 1st page for more info. I also suggest you revisit FSM FAQ Yeah, Dividend Distribution thingy, thanks for the advice Mr Capt, will definitely keep monitoring it from now on. Dont use buy and forget strategy. This is definitely not correct way to invest. If you wan to employ this way, its best to go for FSM managed portfolio or some other UT managers out there. DIY UT should be monitored from time to time and the performance compared to its benchmark and peers. QUOTE(j.passing.by @ May 3 2018, 04:13 PM) "... in the end, I might even making loses?" Very Interesting point of view, Mr j.passing.by. True enough, I guess hence the saying goes 'History shows that Time, not Timing is the key to Investment Success'. Unit trust funds are long term investments... you are investing for the future, the next 10 or 20 or 30 years... if you believe the future is bright and the world is growing and developing at a steady pace, and people and society will be more civilise and richer in life and financially ... it is difficult to imagine that the equities of the best run companies and corporations of the world will not expand, and the value of their stocks will not grow. In the end, chances are very likely that there won't be any losses. The only matter of concern is how profitable is the investment. What will be the effective rate of returns? ================ About effective rate of returns or IRR... most tend to forget that the IRR of any investment begins the moment you received any money and holding it in your hand. If you are holding it in cash for donkey years, the IRR is zero for donkey years... If you put it in FD or an savings account in the bank, the rate of interest you receive is the IRR... for donkey years. Say, you have waited and waited for the right time or year to invest into UT... guess what is the IRR after donkey years in cash or FD, and after transferring the cash or FD to an UT investment in the first year? Not to mention the lost of opportunity in the donkey years of minor growth, although minor but still higher than FD interest... Another thing about IRR is that it gets more and more stable after each passing year... after many, many moons, and if the fund gets hit by a big drop of several percentages... the IRR hardly moves. (And in each dip and crash, the long time investor will be unfazed by the dip when he looks at the overall ROI and its IRR. He might even be thinking of taking advantage of the dip and investing more... ) Point taken, I will keep IRR in mind whenever I receive any money from now on. thanks. |
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May 15 2018, 02:04 PM
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#6
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QUOTE(Drian @ May 15 2018, 10:41 AM) I'e been holding KGF since last year and it is still negative. You bought since last year end?I've really no idea what the fund managers are doing. Mine all other funds red, but KGF is the only one that is green but with low percentage T_T, reason being probably i bought KGF the earliest, back in 2017. |
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May 18 2018, 03:08 PM
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#7
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QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ May 16 2018, 08:14 PM) I don't agree on this opinion. If u invest only in 1 fund n that fund tank. Gone case. Remember eastspring small cap? Affin hwang quantum? IDS? Actually I am curious about these 2 funds you mentioned (eastspring small cap and Affin hwang quantum).Don't play2 with a one fund strategy What Happened to it? Few years back it had a soft-closed and now reopened again. last time was ok, but now is red |
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May 22 2018, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE(MUM @ May 18 2018, 03:19 PM) the index had been flat since April 2017 till Jan 2018 then it dived from early FEB 2018.... see chart as in post 13726 page 687 QUOTE(WhitE LighteR @ May 18 2018, 03:20 PM) true |
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May 23 2018, 04:08 PM
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#9
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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ May 23 2018, 03:25 PM) I suggest you all stop into MY EQ. Just the other day, came across this article about Investing in Mutual Funds:-the drop just started. and can't see the end yet. I myself already regret for not withdraw myself fully from MYEQ. we better be step aside, watch and see. my thinking is that, now the market will drop for sure. the hole yet to be seen. and you don't know deep you will fall. and how long for you take time to recover from this fall. let say you DCA 6 months in KGF, this 6 month it drop approximately 8%. I doubt it will take longer time to rise than the time of fall. so initially, you already lost 8% and SC charges. and the time to recover? everyday counts. I may sound foolish but. this 6 months teach me a lot. this corrections is not minor correction where you DCA 4 to 6 time then can rebound. thank God my gut feel to withdraw fromKGF fully save my ass. and those who holding, hope the best, KGF is not the next IDS. now for bond. rating confirm drop. debt Gdp 65% is deadly. and 1 trillion debt is hilarious. fed rate hike. even our local bond also will kena. I don't know what to do anymore. I just feel that DCA during time like this just so wrong. and just hope I am wrong. the market is so so so volatile now. yesterday SGX even stop halfway. Ever ride on Roller Coasters? "If you hold on and stay seated, you’ll have a wild ride, but you’ll end up safely where you want to be. If you hold on and see the ride through to the end, you come out just fine. But if you try to jump off early, well, you’re going to get hurt." The same is true of the market. When you start investing, you have to be emotionally prepared for it to go up and down. If you’re not prepared for that, you’ll make one of the biggest mistakes when it comes to investing: jumping out at the wrong time. Long-term investing only does its magic if you leave your money untouched over a long period of time. Trying to “time the market” is a fool’s game. This post has been edited by ViNC3: May 23 2018, 04:18 PM |
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May 23 2018, 04:18 PM
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Jun 21 2018, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Jun 20 2018, 11:45 PM) The better method, if not the best, is using a bit of common sense. DCA all the waaaaaaay.If don't know how to time the market, then don't time the market. Spread out the purchase over the entire investment period, purchase bit by bit, 1% at a time.... As Warren Buffett would say, buy equities. Not bonds, not reits... stocks. Instead of dabbling directly in the stock market, buy equity fund. The pros and cons of equity fund is well discussed in this forum. In this case, RCA I guess |
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Jun 21 2018, 10:11 AM
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#12
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165 posts Joined: Jul 2009 |
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Jun 22 2018, 09:28 AM
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Jun 22 2018, 09:35 AM
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Jun 22 2018, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE(ChessRook @ Jun 21 2018, 11:38 AM) DCA = dollar cost averaging. Lets take the example of purchasing UT. The idea is that because one doesn't know whether the price of funds will go even lower, it is more prudent to spread ot your purchases so that you don't buy at a higher price. This is not DCA, your explanation is misleading. Suppose you have rm30,000 that you want to buy UT. Instead of investing all 30,000 now when the UT funds might go down further (eg Trump carzy policies, more bad things discovered in GLCs, US interest rates increase etc). You park say rm20,000 at money market funds earning about 3.5% interest, and invest 10,000 at equity funds. In the next month, you invest another 10,000 in UT while leaving 10k at the money market. In the following month you invest the last 10k. The converse also applies to selling. Modified for adding explanation:- If you have RM30K, you don't buy RM30k into on Fund, and not even RM10K in one go. By using DCA method, you spread out, (buy RM500 every week, or RM1K every week, or RM3k every month for the duration of 10 months etc.) The more your investment spread with smaller amount by different timing, the better. This post has been edited by ViNC3: Jun 22 2018, 09:45 AM |
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Jun 25 2018, 09:04 AM
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QUOTE(ChessRook @ Jun 22 2018, 11:40 PM) Where does any source tells you the exactly that you must spread out weekly to do DCA or for that matter monthly to reduce the chances of us buying at the peak. DCA just tells us to spread our investments, no? Ofc the more spread out the purcahse of UT the better but investors have to weigh practicality vs the benefits of DCA. Another thing is that if the period is too short, the price differences may not be significant enough. When did I say 'MUST'?https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp It also doesn't mean DCA must be RSP. Read the message thoroughly before start flaming dude. We are all here to discuss, not to argue. DCA means instead of investing in a lumpsum, try spread it out, that's it. What is there to even argue about? |
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Jul 10 2018, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(ROSS_Solar @ Jul 9 2018, 07:03 PM) lots of funds, will just list major holdings: Impressive Profit, unlike mine, all red ---- Affin Hwang Select Bond Fund 9.38 % AmDynamic Bond 14.64 % CIMB-Principal Global Titans Fund 6.47 % Eastspring Investments Dinasti Equity Fund 5.82 % Kenanga Growth Fund 18.71 % RHB Asian Income Fund 7.47 % RHB China-India Dynamic Growth Fund 6.02 % RHB Emerging Markets Bond Fund 5.23 % RHB KidSave Trust 3.16 % ==== |
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Jul 10 2018, 11:08 AM
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Jul 11 2018, 09:24 AM
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tbh, you guys made DCA sounded like a cult
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Jul 12 2018, 10:54 AM
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QUOTE(Ramjade @ Jul 11 2018, 06:38 PM) Awaiting to pump my PRS. For regular UT I can pump anytime I want as I always have access to zero percent service charge. So no hurry. For regular UT I would like it to fall a bit more for it to hit that sweet spot. Woah, how to attain 0% service charge at all time? even Platinum level only have 1% off Planning to. Not yet hit the target price for my fund yet. |
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