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 Ultimate Discussion of ASNB (47457-V)发 8ight 发, Wholly owned subsidary of PNB (38218-X)

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plumberly
post Aug 4 2017, 09:45 AM

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Saw this in The Star.

Attached Image

I am OK with no passbook (though I still prefer a passbook as it is a hard evidence while computer numbers can be manipulated, depending on the IT hacking skill of the guy, no system is 100% secure). I can keep the transaction slips for record but everything in the book is so much better and easier.

AA
Will having a 12 digits account number really ensure safety?

BB
Note that they will only print the last 5 transactions on request.

CC
If there is an error (staff error, computer error, hacking, etc), will ASNB compensate? Anything written in their clauses on this?

Don't mean to cause any concern, just speaking my mind.
plumberly
post Aug 23 2017, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(theevilman1909 @ Aug 16 2017, 06:34 PM)
maybe 6.20%
*
6.2% was my earlier estimate few months ago.

Now with the higher than expected GDP (5.7% which Ah Jib is very happy with, don't know whether the figure is with lots of smart accounting or not for the coming GE14), my revised estimate is 6.5% (assuming the GDP growth is real).

Less than 10 days to go for ASW $$$!

Hope AS1M will be even higher!
plumberly
post Aug 23 2017, 06:33 PM

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QUOTE(Ancient-XinG- @ Aug 23 2017, 05:20 PM)
not fair leh. asm only 6.0.
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Different financial year timing for ASM and ASW/AS1M. As per GDP and KLCI, things are picking up. So ...

This post has been edited by plumberly: Aug 23 2017, 06:38 PM
plumberly
post Aug 28 2017, 11:57 AM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Aug 28 2017, 10:54 AM)
Really?
Insider info huh??

Good.. I'm waiting.. Normally after 2pm, we would know the rate already rclxms.gif
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Please, please, please 6.5%

If kena, you all can have a long break this week! rclxm9.gif thumbup.gif devil.gif biggrin.gif whistling.gif
plumberly
post Aug 30 2017, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Aug 30 2017, 10:27 AM)
Today is last day for dividend announcement..
If still not out.. Don't know that to say to PNB doh.gif
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Looks like it is BAD news.

Good news, they will announce it early. Bad news, they will delay it till the last minute.

But still hope it is 6.5% as my good news is over 7%. Ha. Just kidding.


plumberly
post Aug 30 2017, 06:27 PM

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I know, I know, I know ...

It will be announced tomorrow by you know who.

If it is from him, then it must be very good %. Ha.

Sorry for my speculations here and there, just can't help in speaking my mind. Ha.
plumberly
post Aug 30 2017, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(nexona88 @ Aug 30 2017, 06:57 PM)
hahah.. u seriously called them  laugh.gif  laugh.gif

yup. kinda disappointed...

so can expect AS1M @ 6% too  blush.gif
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AS1M ASM ASW
2016.....6.1 ....6.3.....6.3
2017......? ..... 6.0.....6.0

Looking at the above pattern, can expect 0.2% lower for AS1M.

5.9 % ?!

Bye bye Ah Jib.

This post has been edited by plumberly: Aug 30 2017, 07:40 PM
plumberly
post Aug 31 2017, 09:01 AM

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QUOTE(kart @ Aug 30 2017, 10:19 PM)
Referring to the article:

Total investment amount held by ASW unit holders = RM 18.8 billion

Total dividend given by ASNB = RM 18.8 billion x 6 % = RM 1.128 billion (as stated in the article)

Gross profit made by ASW = RM 1.38 billion (as stated in the article)

Percentage of the profit for ASW = (RM 1.38 billion / RM 18.8 billion) x 100 % = 7.34 %

If ASNB is indeed very generous, ASNB could have given us 6.5%, since they made 7.34 % of profit.

Yes, we should be grateful of what we have now. But, it is just something worth thinking about.  hmm.gif
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Thanks.

Wanted to do this analysis too. I have not liked this Wahid guy when he was in MB. Now this is adding further salt to injury.

Those who withdraw will lose out on the retained dividend. I will do an analysis to compare the pay all out and retain for later years to see if it is still the same for those who don't withdraw.


plumberly
post Aug 31 2017, 10:46 AM

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Need help from accountants or those in the know.

For part of ASNB's retained earning where they don't declared it as dividend (to keep for bad years ahead), do they use this retained earning as :

AA
working capital in the following years

BB
safe deposit like FD and use it as dividend in subsequent years when needed

CC
?

Need to know the above so that I can do my analysis.

Thanks.


P/S Which firm is doing audits for ASNB?
plumberly
post Aug 31 2017, 10:47 AM

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deleted

This post has been edited by plumberly: Aug 31 2017, 10:47 AM
plumberly
post Aug 31 2017, 03:11 PM

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A friend shared that AS1M can be higher than 6%. Why? Ah Jib started that fund! Good for the coming GE.

Pleasing the big boss? Let see where is W's integrity. See how much is the carried forward earning for AS1M.
plumberly
post Sep 29 2017, 08:54 AM

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QUOTE(life27 @ Sep 28 2017, 09:47 PM)
Thank you for your feedback .

But I am still confusing , I shall focus on one UNIT trust only or I shall open one more account to invest a bit ..

From your point of view, so open one account or open 3 account is eventually same ?
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Seeing many similar questions on which of the ASX is the best, etc. My view as below.

Attached Image

AA
The best one based on past returns is ASW. Very good returns in the early days. ASM and AS1M were not yet "born" then. So cannot use this to compare all 3 as you are not comparing apple with apple.

BB
Over the past 7 years, all 3 have been returning at about the same rates. Difference of only 0.03% with ASW at the top. How does this impact RM 1 million over the 7 yrs?
Difference of RM3000. So ... ?

CC
In volatility (fluctuations in returns), AS1M is the "safest" while ASW is the "worst".

DD
Get 1 only or 2 or 3?

Repeating what others have advised here ..

* the returns are so far about the same
* using 1 only will limit your chance in topping up
* one gets dividends 3 times a year if you have 3
* no real additional cost in having more than 1 beside the initial hassle in account opening
* ???


How many do I have? Only 2. Using my wife's ASW for the 3rd.

Best is to do your own analysis to convince yourself and not just take what others are saying and follow them. Furthermore, with your analysis, you may find things which others have not considered.

Cheerio.
plumberly
post Sep 29 2017, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(johnkoh2290 @ Sep 29 2017, 04:11 PM)
"AS1M recorded a net income of RM600.47 million, a 16 per cent growth from RM517.28 million in 2016...."

"This involved a total payout of RN724.10 million which would benefit more than 390,000 account holders ..."
Net income RM600m but payout RM720m. Drawing from reserves?

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia...GzXmBFjvEI54.97
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BAGUS! You have an eye for numbers. I did not pick that up.

But the numbers do not look right. 16% growth compared to last year and yet they need to top up?

Working backwards, without the top up, then the dividend will be 5% only!?

Something is not right here.

Wahid, if you are reading this, please check and revert please.
plumberly
post Sep 30 2017, 10:39 AM

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Trying to find some data eg net profit to make some sense of the returns, carryover, reserves, etc.

Looked up the annual booklets. But can only find those before 2015. Maybe I have misplaced those 2015 and after.

Do you have 2015 and later annual report booklets?

If they have stopped issuing the hardcopy, where can I get the electronic version? Tried the web site, cannot find them there.

Thanks.

P/S Found the previous yr electronic annual report for AS1M. They only show one yr there. Where can I get the rest?

This post has been edited by plumberly: Sep 30 2017, 10:44 AM
plumberly
post Sep 30 2017, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(Hansel @ Sep 30 2017, 11:28 AM)
thumbsup.gif

Actually,... IS it time-justifiable to do all these researching and studying ? I noticed a lot of details missing in the disclosures, and things seldom happen according to projections,.. though some err on the upside too,...

There is no certainty,... no ?
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My simple man's view is like this, though I am already riding this vehicle, if I found something seriously wrong, I will get out of the vehicle.

Eg, say they have been using carryovers to get a nicer % and the reserve is now actually negative, you know what I will do lah.

PLEASE don't go round saying their reserve is negative. I just want to find out more. Minor smart accounting tricks, I don't mind. Major ones, I do mind. Ha.
plumberly
post Sep 30 2017, 08:49 PM

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Attached Image

Hope some sifus can help me.

AA

My calculated div % based on earnings/no of units are not the same as AS1M annual report. See the table on the right.

Why?

P/S Trying to use net earning for the calcs but still trying to get the data. But with net earnings, then the calculated div % will be even LOWER!

PP/S One possibility is, A sells his units and B buys the units. For both of them, they do not get their dividend for that month as dividend is based on minimum month balance. So, it is not really 100% earnings/no of units. Say they have RM100,000 sales/purchases per day, then about 2.4*12 = 29 million of units will not earn dividend for that year. But 29 million units is small compared to the total of 11,000 million!


BB

AS1M total no of units will increase every year after the dividend. Increase in the new units will be same as the dividend rate, I assume.

When A sells his units, B buys that units. So the total number is constant during the year.

The calculated increases do not tally with the actual.

Why?

This post has been edited by plumberly: Sep 30 2017, 09:15 PM
plumberly
post Oct 8 2017, 10:56 AM

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My apology to those who find me stupidly persistent in pursuing this issue. Please then stop reading this and related threads. Thanks. Ha.

Went to a car service center yesterday to replace a relay. Brought the ASM 2016 annual report to read to pass the time. Saw this and like to know why the different values for 3a and 3b for the SAME parameter. If they are different things, then please use different terms.

Attached Image

Went through a few past annual reports, similar observation, same parameter but different values during the respective years.

Appreciate some clarification if you have the answer.

Thanks.
plumberly
post Oct 9 2017, 02:34 PM

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QUOTE(raptar_eric @ Oct 9 2017, 02:15 PM)
ya i understand and agree with diversification. but for now, my risk appetite is almost nil, therefore just remain with asx for the time being.... wanna have some spare cash since im getting married in 2 mths, and hse ready now, so alot of $ needs to be used.. so wanna have some spare cash for cashflow, parking in asx first....

well, if there are any other suggestions that have super low risk, i wouldnt mind.. but as of now, from what i read from all the sifus comments, high risk = high return lol.. so i prefer to stay low for the time being...

just withdrawn 20k from asm today at maybank sad.gif
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CONGRATULATIONS on getting married soon! rclxm9.gif

Welcome to the Married Club! thumbup.gif

Lots of fun, challenges, discoveries, compromises, sacrifices, thrills, delights, etc etc waiting for you two! brows.gif

And not forgetting ASX to help you on the wealth building journey! devil.gif

Cheerio!
plumberly
post Nov 9 2017, 06:30 PM

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QUOTE(veera77 @ Nov 7 2017, 03:18 PM)
Guys, i received all quotation and indicative bank loan interest, for study option of re-finance property to invest in ASBN.

Below is the details Excel spreadsheet, for "300k re-finance loan @ 10 years repayment" vs "force saving the same amount of loan installment without re-finance"

I did not see much difference in earning...and the risk factors is higher...

i have cancel my re-finance application today, and decided to do force saving every month.

hope this could gives us some idea about "investing in ASBN by property re-financing"  icon_rolleyes.gif
if anyone could not understand the table below, feel free to ask  thumbsup.gif
*
Interesting comparison.

But ....

if the purpose is to decide which option to go for, then I feel that the comparison is not comparing apple with apple.

Why? Different basis for the 2 options, both should have the same amount of money at the start.

Say DTrump has RM30k in hand. Should he go for the:

a. ASX loan and keep the RM30k in FD or ASX or
b. invest that RM30K with monthly contributions?

This to me is a fair comparison, I think.

My 1.5 cents.

plumberly
post Nov 10 2017, 09:11 AM

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QUOTE(veera77 @ Nov 9 2017, 11:06 PM)
Hi bro...u hv very valid question..let me try to explain smile.gif

In the comparison, the basis is not 300k, but the basis is paying RM3,080 monthly for next 10yrs...which is RM370k.
So, to answer your question, the actual basis is paying RM370k over 10 yrs, with “loan and invest” compared to “no loan, but invest by force-saving, by assuming u have taken the loan”
Option 1

Eventhough i could get 300k loan, but there is upfront fees  i have to pay...one-time cost abt 12k to obtain this 300k.

300k-12k = 288k, which is the actual amount which i can invest in ASNB. Thats why on Day 1, my loan value is 300k but ASNB investment value is 288k. Then i work out the spreadsheet assuming mortgage interest 4.3% and ASBN dividend 6% (assume both constant over 10 years)

Option 2

I don’t take loan, instead invest every month RM3,080, which is the same amount i pay to bank if i took the loan. Which is forced-saving method. In this option, i not need to worry about BLR movement and ASBN dividend trend. Risk free option.

Conclusion
“Taking loan, invest, pay refinance installment of RM3,080” could gives almost same return after 10 yrs, compared to “No loan, invest RM3,080 monthly in ASBN”.

By the way, i might miss some important variable as i only did quick spreadsheet by considering basic variable only.
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Sorry, my 1.6 cents ...

There is a difference between the monthly RM3080 for option 1 and RM3080 for option 2.

In option 2, one will have to work to earn that RM3080.

In option 1, it is self generating.

Suggest to close here, agree to disagree. Otherwise we will replying till the cow comes home. Ha.

All the best!

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