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> T8 Fluorescent LED Tube Light replacement, Retrofitting LED tube to existing casing

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TSmot88
post Jan 18 2017, 09:42 PM, updated 5y ago

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There are lots of question on retro-fitting or modification needed to fit existing T8 tubes that normal household used. I have decided to conduct some research as most electrical or lighting shops unable to explain properly.

The normal fluorescent light fitted in household is T8, also known as "Lampu Kalimantang". The colour is usually white in colour. The colour code is also known as 'cool daylight' or 6500k

Before we start, we need to determine what type of ballast is being used. There are 2 types being magnetic or electronic.

Magnetic ballast
Majority household is using magnetic ballast. It the casing has a starter, then it would be this type. To verify the tube would not instantly start-up but flicker a few moments.

Electronic ballast
Newer type of ballast which uses no starter and the tube will light up almost instantly.


How to replace the existing fluorescent light for magnetic ballast

Type A : Applicable for most Malaysian made and China made LED such as FSL/RealMagic etc.. (exclude Philips or GE). This type of tube rely 1 side to supply Live (L) and the other side Neutral (N) to power the led tube.

Method 1:
• Remove the starter. Yes, you only need to remove the starter and it will work.
Pros: anyone could do it and backward compatible if one decide to use back the standard fluro tube.
Cons: magnetic ballast consume 6-8 watt in additional to led tube wattage. I am not sure if the life of the tube is shorter using this method but the function of ballast is only limiting the current flow. LED need less current than normal tube.

Method 2:
• Remove or bypass the magnetic ballast and remove the starter. Usually the 'Live' wire from ceiling/wall goes into ballast and and wire from ballast into a terminal of the tube pin.
Pros: no wastage of power consumed by ballast.
Cons: need to re-wire and difficult to do if you plan to do it while at the ceiling without taking down the casing.

Refer to diagram below:
user posted image

Type B : Applicable for Philips/ GE type of Led tube . This type of tube rely only 1 side of the tube to supply 'L' and 'N'. The other side of pins (2 in total) is dummy terminal. To clarify, T8 tube has 4 pins, with 2 pins on each side.
user posted image

Method 1 (most popular)
Tube such as Philips Ecofit supplied with EMP starter. This EMP starter is actually a dummy starter. There is no capacitor but just a wire loop to connect 2 side of the starter. A normal starter has capacitor inside it. Without the EMP or dummy starter, the tube will not work.

Pros: same pros as Type A -Method 1
Cons: same cons as Type A- Method 1


How to replace the existing fluorescent light for electronic ballast
Bypass or remove the electronic ballast and there is no other way or short cut.

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 18 2017, 11:29 PM


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Attached File  t8_tube_wiring.pdf ( 190.61k ) Number of downloads: 1722
TSmot88
post Jan 18 2017, 10:14 PM

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In summary for majority of household, one could just remove the starter to fit in a T8 LED tube without additional modification.

A normal fluorescent tube is around RM 6 to RM 8 and a decent quality LED tube is around RM 15 to RM 25. Do look for 2000 lumens type if you having high ceiling. Typical a normal LED tube is only 1600 lumens. 2000 lumens led tube is on par or exceed the brightness of normal T8 Philips Bright boost tube (green end cap model)

It is worthwhile to replace your normal T8 if the tube is blown or you are using it very often. Other than savings money, LED tube is longer lifespan and instant start, without the annoying blinking moment. Also useful if you frequently switch on and off the light, eg in kitchen or bathroom.

TSmot88
post Jan 18 2017, 10:59 PM

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Yes, on par or exceed for the 2000 lumens model. I have a 5 year old Bright boost (BB) and a new 2000 lumens led tube, comparing side by side, led definitely brighter. The comparison conducted on an aged normal tube with new led. If compare new BB to new 2000 led, it would be at least on par or exceed BB.

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 18 2017, 11:01 PM
TSmot88
post Jan 19 2017, 08:43 AM

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2000 lumens led tube typically uses 22 to 23w for Malaysian and China brand. Philips one more efficient using 18w (mid top range) and 20w (mid). However, price for Philips Master series 20w 2100 lumens would be 3x pricier to Malaysian /China brand.

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 19 2017, 09:25 AM
TSmot88
post Jan 20 2017, 02:52 PM

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All Malaysian and China T5 led tube came integrated with base and small clip to install on ceiling or wall. Mr DIY stuff are not bad and easily available.

The all in one T5 (tube & integrated base) need to be discarded when the led or tube is spoilt.

To clarify on misconception that T5 is shorter than T8, thats not true. The "T" designation is only referring to diameter of the tube.
T8 is 1 inch diameter (standard tube)
T5 is 5/8 inch diameter (slimmer tube)

The normal lenght for Malaysian household used tube is 4 feet and the short one is 2 feet. Both 2 and 4 feet tubes are available in T5 and T8.

TSmot88
post Jan 20 2017, 05:08 PM

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There is no clear advantage between each type as the tube is basically a cover /housing with inbuilt driver. However, some may find t8 is slightly better as with bigger housing, the lesser heat in it. Led will perform poorly if there is too much heat.

On summary, T5 for confined space and T8 for otherwise.
TSmot88
post Jan 21 2017, 09:28 AM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jan 20 2017, 11:28 PM)
Type A, method 1.
Why the ballast still consuming 6 -8 watts after starter removed and lamp replaced to LED ?
*
If you open the fluorescent casing, 'L' wire goes into directly into magnetic ballast (from your main source/ DB) and out of it then to the pin socket under normal fluorescent wiring. Removing the starter is only breaking up the other loop from left side pin to right side.

Function of ballast is limiting the current flow. The current flow after magnetic ballast is more than sufficient for LED. LED could be wired directly to 'L' and 'N'.
Think of magnetic ballast in this case as a 'middleman / agent'. Instead of getting your goods from whole seller, one choose to still continue the tradition to get from agent (which more expensive -lah). With or without magnetic ballast the LED still works but consume more electricity.

I am sharing the knowledge as the info is scattered everywhere in the forum and the lighting shop is not much help either. The purpose of this thread is to consolidate the info and adding my experience in changing the normal fluorescent to LED tubes

For better understanding on the fluorescent light wiring (the foundation), this link with pic is quite good biggrin.gif
http://www.louyeh.com/how-to-wire-up-a-sim...orescent-light/
TSmot88
post Jan 21 2017, 02:03 PM

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Thanks Richard for chipping in. Btw, the starter has no function after the tube is lighted in normal fluorescent tube. One can try and unplug the starter after the fluorescent tube lighted. it will continue to work. Therefore, the myth that once the starter is removed, the function of ballast is not needed is inaccurate. The moment the ballast is functioning, it consume small amount of electricity.

It is good to clear doubt as there is too many misinterpretation especially when seeking clarification from lighting shop.



This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 21 2017, 02:34 PM
TSmot88
post Jan 21 2017, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(Richard @ Jan 21 2017, 01:51 PM)
ahem..  sifu here.. (actually its master sifu since i have technical certificate..)

In a standard fluorescent fitting..

The ballast acts as inductor to limit the current and increases voltage (by the fluctuating magnetic field in its coil) so as to make the tube fluoresce via the starter (bimetallic contact)..

hmm..

anyway because it is an alternating current (sinusoidal voltage) there is a power factor where some heating happens within the inductor (ballast) which is the reason for the reactive power loss..

Hell .. I can't explain technical things in a simple way but if you run an ac current through a coil there will be some heating ..

This heat translates as a loss in efficiency of the load..

Edit * Of course in an LED where the current is in the mA it will be negligible thus you can leave it in circuit and it won't matter..

technically there will be some power loss but not in the magnitude of 6-8 Watts (milliwatts in direct proportional to the current) ..
*
A trivia, if the power consumption of ballast is proportionate to the current of the tube, then logically it would still consume a few watts as LED at its best is consuming slightly less than half of normal fluorescent wattage, lowest being 16 watt (LED) as compare to 36w (normal tube). A normal magnetic ballast fitted with fluorescent tube consume approximately the amount mentioned.

*Edited to share more info as below biggrin.gif

Source 1
Energy efficient magnetic ballasts (required by law since 1988) are 10 to 12 percent more efficient than older- types because of the higher performance materials used in their manufacture. They have lower maintenance costs, longer life (three year warranty) and cooler operation than their predecessors. They operate the lamps at the nominal 430 ma. and allow the lamps to produce greater than 92.5% of rated lumens. They consume eight to 10 watts when operating with the lamp in the circuit. The ballast will consume about four watts when the lamps are removed although the ballast is still energized.

Further reading http://www.naturallighting.com

Source 2
Magnetic ballasts are "older" fluorescent technology. The electronic ballast was introduced in 1981 and produces significant energy and dollar savings over magnetic ballasts in nearly every application for full-sized fluorescent lamps. The electronic ballast is flicker-free and produces virtually no noise or hum. Electronic ballasts will generally reduce the overall load on a circuit by reducing energy demand; magnetic ballasts by comparison consume on the average 2-6 watts more energy that their electronic replacements.

Further reading http://www.ultraluxlight.com/fluorescent tube

This post has been edited by mot88: Jan 21 2017, 05:56 PM
TSmot88
post Feb 9 2017, 03:19 PM

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Let me share some info on T8 Fluro tube

Philips Ecofit 16w, 1600 lumens, 4 ft
Price: about RM 27- RM 32
Availability: Most lighting shop, Aeon Big

This is the only branded retrofit led t8 tube available locally. The brightness is average and nothing to shout about. I would rate around 75% to 80% brightness of normal aged t8 tube. Didn't have new normal t8 tube to compare with. Ecofit is supplied with EMP starter (actually just a dummy starter). Installation: just remove the existing starter and put in the supplied starter. I don't think it worth the money as currently there is no promo. Last time promo, price is RM 23.90 at Aeon Big.

Hope to hear from you if you would you have other t8 led tube experience.


TSmot88
post Apr 22 2017, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(burn368 @ Apr 16 2017, 10:09 PM)
If we buy those china LED fixture lamp, (like Mr. DIY) , can I just simply change the led tube with the phillips ecofit LED tube ?
*
If you are using the old type fluorescent bracket, just remove the normal starter and install the EMP starter a.k.a dummy starter that supplied with the Ecofit LEd tube.


If your existing bracket is new type (without the place to install starter), you can't change the China LED T8 to Ecofit without modifying the wiring inside the bracket.
TSmot88
post May 6 2017, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(rietz @ May 6 2017, 11:08 PM)
Just buy 4ft T8 led from philips warehouse sale. RM12.50 per unit. Not yet test the brightness..
*
Ecofit series?

Update - 7 May
Just went to the warehouse, it is the Phlips 'FeiFan' series which is Chinese market version of Ecofit. The rating and output is 16w 1600 lumens. For the price (RM 12.50) it is cheap for branded t8. Seemed tht not many ppl buying the t8. Only the led bulb e27 is having good sale.

This post has been edited by mot88: May 7 2017, 05:27 PM
TSmot88
post May 20 2017, 12:37 AM

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QUOTE(knog33 @ May 20 2017, 12:22 AM)
Ecofit LEDtube provide starter?
*
Yes

TSmot88
post Aug 23 2017, 11:58 PM

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QUOTE(nuke13 @ Aug 23 2017, 11:10 AM)
How about converting MR16 50w spotlight with normal LED spotlight?
*
I have changed normal halogen mr16 25w with Philips led mr16 5w. No issue just plug and play.As long as the wattage is not higher than the halogen transformer can support. Normal transformer (aka driver) for halogen supports till 60w.


TSmot88
post Aug 24 2017, 12:10 AM

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QUOTE(xjia @ Aug 13 2017, 11:53 PM)
Guys, where can i get two tubes LED T8 bracket? most of the shops only have bracket for one LED tube.
Or can i just buy normal florescent 2 tube bracket and fix my LED T8 tube into it ? rclxub.gif

And i cant find LED T8 tubes with 2000lumens, most of them selling T8 16W with 1600Lumens.  sad.gif

Thanks
*
You can use the normal fluro bracket to fit the led if cant find the t8 led bracket. The different of normal bracket with led bracket is the size is slimmer and no starter hole. Other than that everything is the same. If ballast is pre installed, just screw/slide it out.

There is a local made t8 tube with output 2000 lumens but higher wattage. I think someone is selling it in garage sale thread in lowyat .

The output for 16w 1600 lumens is low by today standard, just like Philips Ecofit. FSL brand (China made) 18w with 1600 lumens is brighter than ecofit although same lumen quoted.
TSmot88
post Oct 6 2017, 11:21 PM

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Philips T8 Led has gone down in price in 2017. There is a higher lumen of 2100 for RM 17.50 that is coming soon. Noted most shop has not reduce the price following Philips recommended price. This includes big hypermarket.

The next question is where to get? There is one Philips authorised reseller in Kuchai Lama (opposite of De Tropicana condo, also nearby NSK), which item can be order if not in stock. Heads up they normally serves more to contractor, so don't expect very good service from them, i.e tell them what you want, pay and leave the store.

Philips Led 2017 catalogue

This post has been edited by mot88: Oct 7 2017, 12:03 AM


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TSmot88
post Oct 7 2017, 12:17 AM

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QUOTE(b0rhui @ Oct 3 2017, 11:13 PM)
Dear all sifus here  notworthy.gif

I'd love to retrofit t8 led tubes into my existing magnetic ballast housing (with starter).

From my understanding above, if I choose to go with philips ecofit 16w, the only option is method 1 removing the starter. But it has cons such as ballast going failure, ballast consuming more wattage. So if I wanna remove the ballast and rewire I have to get type A LED tubes, right?
*
All Philips LED using 'B' type of connection (ie "1 sided connection" as per video in page 2 of this thread).

To retrofit existing bracket,
Option (i) simplest, replace the normal starter to the EMP starter supplied by Philips.
Option (ii) more economical, take out the 'L' wire 'to' and 'from' ballast and join the wire together (ie bypassing the ballast)

However, if EMP or LED starter (not to be confused with the normal starter) missing or not supplied for whatever reason, do supply the 'N' to the same side as the 'L'.

Left Side
Pin 1: Live
Pin 2: Neutral
or
Pin 1: Neutral
Pin 2: Live

Right Side
Pin 3: Dummy (no need power supply)
Pin 4: Dummy (no need power supply)

This post has been edited by mot88: Oct 7 2017, 12:20 AM
TSmot88
post Dec 28 2017, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(janson_kaniaz @ Dec 25 2017, 10:34 PM)
Where to get such price? I see supermarkets are still selling the old model for ~RM20.
*
The new 20w Brightboost T8 Led is available on lazada. It is priced RM80 for 5 pc (RM17/pc) which is lower than Philips recommended price of RM 17.50/ pc.
This 20w version output is 2100lm compared to 16w of only 1600lm. It also comes with LED starter or EMP. Avoid the 16w as it is dimmer than standard fluorescent.

Lazada T8 20w Philips T8

This post has been edited by mot88: Dec 28 2017, 09:12 PM
TSmot88
post Dec 28 2017, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(sgpdsmss @ Dec 28 2017, 10:29 PM)
if current already using T8 LED tube ...so this Philip can directly plug and light up ?

thanks ...
*
Yes, plug & play if you are currently using Type B T8 led (refer to my 1st post of what is Type B).

Yes, plug and play also if you have maintain the wiring of previous Fluro tube with magnetic ballast.

However, you need to modify the wiring in the bracket if both above scenarios do not apply to you.

Mind sharing what T8 led tube you are using now?



QUOTE(janson_kaniaz @ Dec 28 2017, 09:45 PM)
Thanks. I found the same seller before but due to its location (not in Klang Valley) I'm hesitant to pull the trigger as shipping something so fragile from another state might be too risky. Too bad the new 20w is yet to be sold by Philips official seller on Lazada. I just bought a bunch of 16w ones but didn't know it's not that bright but will probably place it at areas where it's not necessary to be that bright  biggrin.gif
*
There is an authorised Philips lighting store whom you could contact if you need it in Klang Valley. The shop is at Kuchai Lama. If you need the contact,do PM me. You could order if they don't carry it. For Philips Lighting HQ in PJ, they usually don't keep a lot of stock and hot item such as this, usually will be out of stock

This post has been edited by mot88: Dec 29 2017, 12:04 AM
TSmot88
post Dec 29 2017, 08:08 PM

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QUOTE(sgpdsmss @ Dec 29 2017, 01:17 PM)
IM using China no brand T8 LED tube daylight now ..not sure how many lm
the cover was plastic ...as Attached the light ...like not bright enough..

so its worth to buy the Philip 20w T8 tube ?
can be brightness than my current tube ?

thanks
*
Plastic T8 cover is earlier generation led. Now, most if not all T8 is sold in glass tube. Since you are not sure brand and the wattage led, hard to advice.

China T8 led is usually Type A. If your lamp holder does not has a hole to put in starter or the wiring has been disconnected from the starter hole, you need to open and modify the wiring, i.e not plug & play for Philips T8 led.

This post has been edited by mot88: Dec 29 2017, 08:14 PM

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