Imho, charging rm 30 for consultation fee is not much, medical doctors worked REALLY REALLY HARD before they could sit on the chair consulting patient. If I couldnt even charge rm 30 in private practice after studying 5 years in med school, work in hosp for 15 years, I dont think I could take it. With my salary I couldnt afford to send my children to med school.


For doctors salary, I think the working hours per week counts as well. And yes I agreeee to the max that medicine is still a profession or industry for whatever you want to call it, and doctors are just normal humans, they need to earn a living too, with such hard work, i think they deserve more, and there's nothing wrong with it.

agree with u 100%

After paying that RM30, the patient expect you to give some medicine regardless of whether it is called for or not.

That is why separation of dispensing right may also be a good thing. At least doctor will no longer be pressured to give medication.

Aussie intern gets around AUD 3k+ to 4k+ per month. Depends on which state you working and hours of OT.

Basic salary per year range from ~50k-70k

not sure bout the news I got off sin chew, and yes there are some false info inside. It's kinda like scaring ppl not to go into med. lol. Um I did apply for aimst, but the letter will be issued only in mid july right? So, not sure whether I can get in or not as priority is given to their foundation students first.

AUD of course.

It's the doctor's job to educate patients about medications. There are still many people who expect antibiotics for viral URTIs. You try to educate them, they will say OK and probably head off to the clinic next door for antis. It's hard to get people into the right mindset, but that doesn't mean we can't try.

Take away the dispensing rights means taking away a source of income for the doctors, so expect the consultation fees to go even higher and this time you won't get medicine at all. A normal GP consultation in Aust probably will cost you 60 bucks and that only comes with a written prescription and you'll have to fork out more to get it at the chemist, i.e. additional travelling/costs/time required. Of course, over here medical cover and bulk billing cover most, if not all, of the costs; but in Malaysia where a majority of people pay out of their own pockets, it's not going to work.

Let's just say approx 50K/year as basic pay... 70K is probably adding up all the OTs and misc allowances. Yeah you get extra cash but less/no time to spend them. And again, when you manage to get 70-80K, the tax rates go even higher and voila, you're not exactly earning as much as laypeople expect you to. Not forgetting the fact that most hospitals now are very anal about claiming OTs - they would rather give you a 1/2 day off during the next day should you do overtime for today.

One won't be rich until >20 years down the road... and even so, "the seriously rich" is probably limited to hardcore specialists who does fancy high-tech procedures (mainly surgeons to be honest).

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Jun 4 2009, 08:02 PM

for oz residents and citizens, the higher taxes translates into better healthcare, education, social services, pensions, parks, good public toilets, good roads and highways and hardly any toll in sight......etc.......

you pay less taxes in msia, but you get practically nothing in return.......unless you belong to the privileged class and ethnicity, you will eventually need to pay for private healthcare, education, pay tolls for your roads, and hardly any social service at all........you tax money goes to bail out crony companies, lost in projects like patrol boats and free trade zones........and collapsing stadiums........

given the choice, i would choose oz over msia........not to mention needing to work less time to pay for almost everything.....(eg, for a basic car like toyota corolla....YES that is a basic car in most parts of the world, except msia where it is a 'luxury' car!!.......you need to work 3 years in msia, but 6 months in oz to get one).........

don't look at taxes in the short term.....but look at it as what you will get in return over your lifetime.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Jun 4 2009, 10:31 PM

Agreed.

Technically you get tax around 30% of your salary. However, if you know how to do good tax return you can get at least 2k back from your annual tax return.

There is also salary packaging which allow hospital to withold your salary for tax exemption. 9k limit for each financial year for thing like rent/morgage/credit card expenses etc. 1/2 your gross salary limit for meal packaging. So essensially all the meals you eat out are tax free *note minimum invoiced amout is AUD20*

There is also continuous medical education claim of AUD1000 a year for intern. You can claim a laptop/sthethoscope/books etc related to your medical training.

OT is usually rostered. You rarely just work basic hours. 38-40 hours is 150% basic pay. 40 hours onwards is 200%. 150% working night, 250% working public holiday, 150% on weekends.

Oh yeah and there is locum jobs once you get fully registered that varies AUD80-100/hr for 2year resident.

*this is for victoria - the worst paid state*

This post has been edited by dunaskwhy: Jun 4 2009, 11:53 PM

a salaried individual in msia gets very little tax allowances.......eg, NO allowance at all for cme/cpd.........no transportation/rent/meal allowance......zilch........

lol...yes coz i think grand mal dated way back...in the 1800? (not too sure) but that time GTC is not around yet...so its imprecise to still use grand mal...

---

Added on June 5, 2009, 12:48 ampurchasing power!...the value of the currency comes to picture...coz i think the figures are about the same...working i aus / sg / msia....but the things u can buy with that figure is different...but if msia wanted to retain the docs n prevent braindrain, msia hav to raise the income value so that the docs can hav the sorta like smiliar buying power....but then again...it would be disproportionate...as that would make docs uber rich....

hmm....there is a scheme where docs in aus can buy stuffs (cars, houses, even cafeteria food) using pretax money....that's why most of them have beach houses, hobby farms, big cars (and they change cars every 5 years...coz if tak pakai then rugi la)....surgeons lagi best....alot own 911s....once i saw DB9... spoilt brats....

---

Added on June 5, 2009, 12:58 ambig supporter of taking of dispensing right...i think alot of msia docs are just doing it coz they wanted to buy generic stuffs and charge pt's the brand prices....and most of them giv meds in those plastic zipper bag thingy...instead of giving the pt a name of a drug that one can hang on to....one can remember....most (generalizing here) would not want to give away drug names.....coz sked the pt would go to the pharmacy n buy....

it might be a hassle for pts but at least that maintains good practice....and pharmacy can act as another safety net to double check....say some dodgy doc prescribe erm...beta blocker to an asthmatic pt to control bp? then at least the pharmacy can sorta pick that up....if the doc does dispense that.....sei lor....pak Abu sure in deep shit...

apart from the travelling expenses....i think it should come up to about the same....say a doc charges rm30 for consult + meds...tehn if docs no longer prescribing....then maybe can charge the 'actual' consult fee...say sth like rm25 then that rm5 instead of being charged by the doc...its ppaid to the pharma...i mean c'mon...if the doc is prescribing...he gets a cut too right...not like he charge consult fee but charge drugs at cost price? so it should work out to about the same...and 'that MOH excuse - tak cukup pharmacy around...then causes inconvenience" well i would rather be safe....than ending up like Pak Abu...going out to town to see the doc....and usually in the town there will be a pharmacy around....and most klinik kesihatan in small daerah's hav their own pharmacy alrdy...so i dont see why the docs are still dispensing

This post has been edited by bhypp: Jun 5 2009, 12:58 AM

"better healthcare, education, social services, pensions, parks, good public toilets, good roads and highways and hardly any toll in sight......etc......."
True for all, but the reason why there aren't that many tolls is because they are all electronic like S'pore's ERP.

As for what we get, or rather don't get, in M'sia from our tax money, that's due to the government's unfair policies + corruptions which belongs to another thread I suppose.

Salary packaging. To put things in a simpler way, you spend on food/electronics/medical books and equipment/etc instead of paying tax lol.

I'm not a big fan of taking away doctor's prescription rights, but I'm not opposing it big time either. We just need to find a system that works in our country and currently it's still not exactly feasible. On the other hand, having a pharmacist double check the doctor's prescription before dispensing medicine is a benefit as it would reduce mixups. In an ideal world, doctors should be cautious enough to ensure there are no mistakes in medication regimes, but shit happens. Same with pharmacists, they too could make mistakes as well.

Doctors who charge generics at branded prices are unscrupulous... if they have the intention of cheating patient's money then they would probably find other ways to squeeze more profit (eg charge higher consultation fees, pakat with pharmacies etc) should the dispensing rights be taken away.

As for generic medication vs branded ones, generally they should have the same efficacy and act equally good on a patient. Talk to people working in pharmacies - you'll find that most if not all of them would advise patients to buy generics if available as it saves costs and of course yields a better profit margin to the pharmacy.

Small daerah klinik kesihatan's have their own built in pharmacies, hence the doctors working there don't need to dispense, and they usually don't. It's different from private practices where it's not always possible to have a pharmacy nearby.

Isnt' 3k AUD after tax deduction a lot for an intern? What's there to complain about?

---

Added on June 5, 2009, 8:13 amBut the patients will be required to pay more. You think the public want that?

This post has been edited by hypermax: Jun 5 2009, 08:13 AM

If public doesnt want that, go to government hosp. I dont study medicine for not being able to charge even rm30. I'm not so noble.

It's good if you're so noble 10 years down the road, especially when u need a car, a bigger house, and ur children want to go to uk to study med.

jus saw this thread here...all is future doctor to be?

im ur "assistance" onli...

---

Added on June 5, 2009, 11:41 amAre you a doctor?Disappointed to hear this. From the time you enter medical school,you should know this is the life of doctor in malaysia isnt it?This is what you choose.Doctor=sacrifice! Maybe,you will say "naive" but that is truth.

---

Added on June 5, 2009, 11:44 amAre you a nurse? Hey,dont belittle yourself.Healthcare is a "Teamwork".You are not assistant of doctor but an important role in healthcare.Without you a healthcare system can not function well.

This post has been edited by MBBS siang: Jun 5 2009, 11:44 AM

Assistant? Regardless of whether you're a nurse or any other allied health worker, you're important to doctors. Doctors don't run wards, nurses do. Surgeons don't run theatres, the scrub nurse does.

Without you, we fall. Patients die. Hospitals close. We all get screwed.

3K enough? Well you get pretty much 3-4K in Malaysia anyway. Don't convert AUD into RM, it doesn't work that way.

No one is complaining too much, I'm just pointing out the fact that working overseas doesn't necessarily mean you'll earn much more than working in Malaysia or even Singapore. Note that I did mention that internship pay is similar no matter where you go - It's enough to survive, but it's hardly what the layperson would expect.

Medical school makes you a cynic.

Some doctors treat patients as cashcows (unfortunately), but at the same time some patients treat doctors like thrash or servants.

I admire your noble thoughts, but come talk 5 years down the road and I guarantee you'll have different views. Again, compassion and emphathy are values which any doctor (in fact every profession, not just medicine) should have; but like I mentioned before every layperson out there should ditch the mindset of "oh, but you're a doctor and you should sacrifice everything you have for medicine."

Doctors are people providing healthcare service in order to feed their own families, they're not gods nor saints.

This post has been edited by StarGhazzer: Jun 5 2009, 12:17 PM

erm i got a question for those who are full fledged doctors in msia....i think limeuu is one of them.....just wanna know if there's palliative care in msia....my contact with hosp in msia was very minimal so i dunno....but i got a tutor who bashed msia's healthcare system saying her dying aunt (metastatic colon cancer) has recurrent asacites and was placed in a surgical ward, and the docs are trying to 'cure' her, when she said it would be alot better if her aunt was put under palliative care and and that would reduce her suffering...coz she said there isnt much docs can do for her....be it surgical / onco / or palliative....but at least palliative can make her final leg of life more comfortable.....

well my tutor was originally msian....judging from her masked msian accent i guess she was trained in msia and migrated over...she's a GP atm....

---

Added on June 5, 2009, 2:05 pmyea scrub nurse the boss but then again...i think there are some who hav some complex and gav med students like me very hard times in my surge rotation....i mean we do work in teams...so we all hav our own roles...theoretically speaking...no one's a boss of another....but by saying just an assistant...sorta shows there are some degree of 'whos the boss' so i think that's the kinda attitude that would go on to develop those complexes.... not good...we are all a team.... should be nice to each other...

yes.....accomodation in Aus is definitely more exp than msia....and its figure comparison....not converted value...3-4k in msia u can get by pretty ok....so is 3-4k post tax in Aus...definitely no luxury but its good...better than being brokeded med student... .....yes the pay is not as much as ppl thought...my frens doing econs was laughing at the pay that i will get in 1st year post grad....saying "study so hard n so long for wat...come out pay still like mine"

yes...med skool makes u doubt ppl, a naive all believing person would be a cynic...coz ppl will try to get u to sign MCs...give drugs for their addiction.....abuse you for not being competent....etc etc...thats why my idol is still Dr Cox from scrubs....he still has it....after so many years of being a doc....the episode where he lost that patient and became depressed for 1 wk or so....classic dr Cox...

This post has been edited by bhypp: Jun 5 2009, 02:05 PM

Not sure about palliative care, but allied health services are not given the appropriate emphasis that they deserve. No one arranged for followup physio and occupational therapy for my friend who severed his left extensor pollicis tendons during a work accident. They did the surgical repair well, but the follow up left much room for improvement.

Dr Cox kicks ass. Seriously.

Read my post properly. I was answering optiplex's post regarding separation of dispensing right. What i meant was if there's separation of dispensing right, patient will be required to pay more for the medicine.

USA: Nearly 62% middle-class bankruptcies driven by medical expenses

http://topnews.us/content/25481-nearly-62-...edical-expenses

In the richest country in the world. What a joke.