haha, it might be true. But an amped M3 is kinda pointless because the extra weight is troublesome for travelling.

Travelling 6 hours from melaka ---> penang = sh*t.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Aug 3 2007, 09:44 PM

bro...hornet is waiting for u...

kapitan here... using my sis account to reply...

After getting my Go-Vibe and new Nano(from RMA), I tried coupling it with M2 and KSC75. It sounds nice with M2 for most of the songs I have. As for KSC75, amping it with Go-Vibe make it so bass-less. So weird. Although after amping it, the highs arent as shrill as b4 and also add a bit of soundstage.

wah....really wan to play the go-vibe...no budget for it ald..jz bought a camera

I'll let you know next week

Dude your go-vibe quotation come liao. USD73 can be paid by cc.

i think i dont wan liao lah, jz get a camera..no budget liao lah. may get HD soon...

as a diy junkie/audio electronics fanatic, i never believed in Ray's amps. They are too expensive IMO.

LISA III from ppl on the other hand.......(yes it's expensive but ppl's contribution to the diy community makes me want to support him)

I'm actually working on two amps at the moment, the first one's a transportable amp with three channel, lisaIII-ish, PPA-ish topology, powered by 2x9V batts while on the other hand i'm working on a very small portable buffer that can be powered with 4x/8x AAA batteries . I don't have much time for huge ass setups these days

i know this not the correct thread to discuss this but IMO there are some conveniently forgotton elements in your assumptions. while it maybe common for diy amps to be cheaper, they also usually look and are built cheaper. taking SQ out of the equation for the time being, i've had nothing but ooohss & aaahhss whenever anyone sees my RSA Tomahawk. its one of the best built (and argueably the best looker too) small porty amp and i'd pit it against anything anyone can diy.

as for value, if u check in headfi's classifieds u'l find that rays (and indeed most other branded too) products are highly sought after and retains a very high resale value. infact if one buys it used (which i did btw), i can almost say for certain that any losses in reselling would be minimal if at all. so in reality if one discounts initial purchase cost, one can actually buy, use and resell at very minimal costs. now if thats not value tell me what is? and then there's Xin amps which can often fetch more than what they retail for!!!

lastly there's SQ and pride of ownership. i dont know whats the best but on synergistic headfons, even yuheng and wala (both of whom auditioned my Tomahawk and my ex. ppav2) cannot proclaim the Tommy loses to the highly rated diy PPAv2. they share a lot of similarities and all 3of us concluded that its a matter of sonic presentations rather than sonic superiorities. indeed i saw more than afew smiling faces (at our recent Bolehtown headfi meet) after listening to my Gmod>Tomahawk>AT W5k combo. and as of yet, i've never had an amp that provided me more pride of ownership than the Tomahawk. plus 2aaa batteries lasts me over 400hrs! talk about true portability !

so if u take all my above points into the SQ/performance/quality/value/pride-of-ownership equation (excepting initial purchase costs), DIY components may or may NOT be the great deal that it seems. perhaps its the other way 'round

This post has been edited by scottiebabie: Aug 5 2007, 07:01 PM

no worries my friend. The only reason why you had to reply to my post is because I was not expecting anyone to take notice of my stripped down statement. I'm not trying to deny what commercial amps have to offer, nor to compare it with DIY Amps in general. The reasons why I don't believe in ray's amp is probably due to: 1) It seriously hurts my wallet. 2) I believe I can do better. 3) I love tuning my own sound. Heck, to be honest when I first saw the Balanced Apache in White chassis I was like "WOAH I WANT ONE BECAUSE IT'S TEH SEXY". But in reality, I felt it was not necessary and I can do better with my own knowledge in building amps. Not everyone can do the same, my statement does not apply to everyone. So I'm pretty safe from flames.

Resale value is irrelevant to my disbelieve in ray's amp, so not going to reply to this one.

Synergy is very important. True. Parts count don't matter. Again true. Yes, as Alamaklor once said in the DIY amp thread, it takes a lot of effort to fine tune and select parts for a particular design. Those two are what makes commercial amps so different and special. Money, time and endless effort are put into selecting proper value and parts for a design. This is what makes them shine. A properly matched, designed cmoy (tomahawk) will always sound better than regular cmoys founds everywhere. I'm not surprised if someone even finds the tomahawk better than some class A discreet output stage amps.

Again, I would like to stress that I am not being biased towards commercial amps. It's kinda a personal thing. LOL

EDIT: In case someone thinks I was being too arrogant and cocky for thinking I can do "better" than Ray Samuels, it's not like that at all. It is not easy to explain but I believe if you have experience and knowledge in DIY, you would "feel" the same way too. It is entirely objective and has got nothing to do with arrogance.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Aug 5 2007, 09:46 PM

Hey no offence taken. Whether u are arrogant or a loudmouth or an intellectual giant for that matter, is interpretory. All I'm doing is making an attempt to provide some balance to the commercial vs diy argument that u began. I do believe the best way to provide that balance is to stick to facts and figures.

Whether Ray Samuels makes good amps or not can be argued but whether RSA products sell and whether they are highly desired or not, cannot. A search on Headfi will provide all the data to verify that RSA (and a lot of other Brands) are highly prized. While I respect diy'ers, the sales figures will attest to the fact that 99% of the population purchase commercial products. Perhaps even diy'er would buy commercial too if they can afford it. Again its my opinion that value is of prime importance in any purchase and taking the points elaborated in my last post, it is shown that commercial branded products can be not only very economically viable but great value as well.

Now I do tip my hat off to people who believe that they can build a better mouse trap and perhaps in their own minds, they can. However where I come from we have an old saying - "the proof the pie is in the eating". Just as accusations and claims are NOT considered evidence nor proof, true respect is gained by "making the pie, putting it out there and let the public tasteand decide". Else what respect one believes one can garner by assumptions, suppositions and claims will start to smell like what pops out of the rear-end after a heavy meal of beans (or in our case, durian and petai).

While Team NATO members might disagree, it is my humble opinion that true respect comes from physically DOING what is claimed rather than performing gigantus feats of oratory poop. But that's just my opinion of'coz. Everyone else is entitled to theirs.

Malaysia Boleh!

This post has been edited by scottiebabie: Aug 5 2007, 11:04 PM

Some true, some not.
First of all, I have to say that I DO NOT have any knowledge in the DIY area, just that I know the time and cost they are build. So then I am neutral in the debate.
Before that, honestly I am having a same opinion as Littleghost, "nah, tomahawk is so overpriced (even I am selling them/I dont open customer's package)", "so small, need 1.5k meh?". But then you have to try it, try with various setups, with rigs you are familiar with.
In fact, it definitely sounds better than my PPAv2 (DIY) I have, or I would say it has the sonic presentation that I prefer. Detailed, transparent, and layered. No problem in amping the big size can, the W5k, with amazing hours. Big shock to us! So ya, you gotta try everything and compare it side by side. But when it come to purchasing, it comes to your wallet fat-ness la...

This post has been edited by walabies: Aug 5 2007, 11:53 PM

I do not want to begin any kinds of pointless arguments at the first place. It was merely how I felt. The RSAs are too expensive for my wallet.




I'll take this post as a general information for everyone else but not directed at me. Again, DIY/audio electronics is not for everyone. 99% of the population that purchase commercial products is just a prove that not many people would take the DIY route which costs much much more effort and money than buying commercial products. However, the value of anything depends greatly on the person's personality and point of view. To me, although DIY route costs a lot more money, but i am actually gaining lots of knowledge at the same time.

To be honest, I really don't care how well RSA's business is. Though, as a amp builder myself, I do admire his work especially on aesthetics and parts selection.



I'd like to add if you don't mind, it also depends on how the so called "TEAM NATOs" express their opinions and the way other people take it. If the "TEAM NATOs" expressed their views and opinions in an objective manner, yet while sending the clear message that they are not interested in putting the effort to share it with others, it's perfectly fine to me. Again, it boils down to how you view it. There is nothing to be pissed off at IMO.


It's different. It was not about size. The only thing that matters are the parts used, topologies implemented.

What I'm trying to say is, electronics is not subjective. It's entirely objective. Physics does not change just because you are a different person. 1+1 does not equal to 2 just because you think it should be. Sound on the other hand is subjective. All amps have their own distortion and figures, so in the end, just stick to whatever kinds of "distortions" you like.

EDIT: have not been sleeping much, some errors.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Aug 6 2007, 08:31 AM

to be honest, i prefer W5000 on Tomahawk more than the PPAv2 of buddy scottie..
=)
and it's hell sexy and portable..

to be very honest, I can't afford neither the PPAv2 nor the Tomahawk, let alone the W5000. So I can only say that the Mylar X3 is the best value for money purchase that I've ever made

before more folks go over board on OT, let me remind everyone that this is a Mylarone appreciation thread. i wont say anymore more as my views are clearly expressed by my last 2posts. i'll end by saying that although everyone is entitled to their opinions, making false bravado claims is akin to sniffing glue IMO unless of coz one belongs to the glue sniffing Team NATO. best way for real leadership and respect is through substantiating all claims with facts and figures (again unless one is just out to blow smoke and sniff glue ofcoz )

scottiebabie,

I really don't find the need for you to be so sarcastic. Why are you so worked up because I do not believe in Ray Samuels amps? Do you have to write long, unnecessary, irrelevant post just to fire it at me because you don't like the fact that I do not like RSA's amps? Since when sound is not subjective? Since when popularity of something equals to quality? I don't even understand why you stated I started the DIY Amp vs Commercial Amp debate when it's clear that I did not do it and did not intend to.]

Most importantly, why do you have to bring in NATO issues to the topic when it's clearly irrelevant?

EDIT: Just purely for everyone's information, although I don't find RSA's amp a necessity and a must have in my list, I do really admire and respect his work especially in PCB trace designing, features, and case work. Again, I have nothing against RSA, it is just that I don't really think the amp would suit me.

EDIT2: Scottie, no offense, please view my above post in a non offensive manner. I'm not sure if you are directing that at me because it's too ambiguous and vague. I personally don't understand why you had to bring in irrelevant NATO issues to the topic.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Aug 6 2007, 01:19 PM

Errm I know I said I wont go off topic in this Mylarone LoveFest thread again but in the interest of justice and fairplay, I'll make this exception. Do pardon me MylarDudes and bro Yuheng, please don't hurt me ya. If u sit on me, I'll prolly suffocate just from the odor alone!

1stly let me make it clear that anything and everything I write isn't personal and directed against anyone at LYN. Its only my personal attempt at providing balance to arguments and a semblance of justice and fairplay. What does any of that crap have to do with posting in forums? Well IMO there are codes of conduct for civilized behavior even in something as anonymous as a forum. There's Honor even Amongst Thieves.

While its perfectly within everyone's right to post their "opinions and views", its (atleast I do) considered most uncivilized behavior to post an "opinion", a "claim" or worse an "accusation" without any proof, substantiation or even logic with only the words "its my opinion" to stand behind. To me that's akin to sniffing glue, licking a**sss, spewing verbal diarrhea on top of being a full card bearing member of Team NATO (No Action Talk Only - not a compliment btw and a major reason why M'sia's still close to 3rd World status). And in the same vein, so can someone else post a similarly critically opposing "opinion" and "accusation" claiming no other basis except the above "its my opinion what!". Motto here being When One Gives Be Prepared To Receive".

So what's considered civilized? I cant speak for anyone else but in my books, qualifying and substantiating our opinions, claims and accusations with proof, facts, figures and (esp. baring the prior 3) as much reason and logic as possible would be IMHO, a giant step towards civilized behavior and civilization. When one does the above, one not only gains respect and stature in the community but it is my humble opinion that one also contributes to the sharing and dissemination of knowledge that's absolutely vital in the advancement of civilized society.

So to littleghosts question of why am I being so sarcastic and offensive, perhaps the better question would be ask our own selves "why am I being sarcastic and offensive?". Remember What's Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander. At the very least, I make every attempt to infuse my statements with facts, figures and logic as much as possible but that's just me. So do verify my statements for authenticity as much as possible as I will take my "medicine" (and crucification too if need be) in the interest of justice and fairplay. After all what's fair's fair!

Perhaps the (forgotton) practice of thinking 1st before spewing any "opinions" that may hurt and damage lest we too get hurt and damaged is something we should start remembering. And yes I will admit that the Asian mentality of putting others down to make our own selves look and feel good, to be totally and absolutely abhorrent. But that's just me so feel free to have your own "views&opinions" but beware of equal payback as others too have their right to their "views&opinions" however unfounded, unsubstantiated and unfair.

That's it for scottie's position on Civilized Behavior 101. Mylarone fanz u have the floor with my deepest apologies for hijacking your thread. I'm positive there'll be plenty of folks that thinks all this is irrelevant and nonsensical and all I can say is "its my opinion what!". 'nuff said!

actually, to put it simple, my precise question would be, why would you interpret my statement "i never believed in ray's amp" as in "ray's amp sucks? and you did not back up your statement with statistics therefore you are wrong?"

To be honest, I am quite confused here. Here's an example to show how I am feeling now:

Person A: Amp A is good, you should get it man!

Person B: But I don't find it really necessary and I don't really believe in other's amp frankly. I would prefer amps i built myself. They can be customised to my own needs and preferences.

Person C: Long post to explain how Person B's opinions should be backed up with statement just because Amp A is too well known and therefore should be "trusted" and "worshipped" by everyone. <----to be honest this is really how i felt. Isnt sound entirely subjective? One might prefer this one might not? There's nothing negative or wrong about this.

I'm not saying what person C said is wrong, but Person B did not even mean to degrade Amp A. He was merely giving a reply to Person A on how he felt about Amp A. He felt it was not necessary for his path. So tell me, how is the long post you just posted anyhow relevant to what Person B said?

In short, it is not about proper civilised opinions and stuffs. It's about the application of your post about civilised opinion in situation where it does not require. You write excellent posts, but in this situation where it involves a casual, harmless reply I don't think it is required to spawn more unneeded lectures.


EDIT: Reread your second paragraph again, actually, why not we just give this topic a rest after you reply to this one? This situation is too awkward and it doesnt even make sense anymore.

This post has been edited by LittleGhost: Aug 6 2007, 08:43 PM