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 Multiple Signs of Malaysia Property Bubble V20

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prody
post Dec 30 2016, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(axisresidence17 @ Dec 23 2016, 07:22 PM)
Omg!!! ..just found out my fren condo is up for an auction from browsing the auction site 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

So shocking!
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I had the same shock a while ago, when I noticed a house on auction in my neighborhood. After checking it was very close to my own house. Then after a while I noticed they started removing everything they possibly could from the house.
prody
post Feb 10 2017, 09:12 PM

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Prices can only drop, especially for properties with extremely low rental yield.
prody
post Feb 16 2017, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(sunami @ Feb 15 2017, 05:48 PM)
i dont think the rental can cover the property price now..
you have to chip in to sustain it..
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Yeah for most of the properties bought at high prices the owner will need to chip in.

I recently saw a rental for 2k.
Capital cost for the same house is about 1.4m. Installment would be about 7k. Not taking into consideration all the other costs (quit rent, maintenance etc.) he would already need to put in an extra 5k per month if he manages to rent it out.

prody
post Feb 16 2017, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(ZenGTMM @ Feb 16 2017, 01:05 PM)
Mind sharing the location/condo name of the unit? 2k rental for 1.4m property is seriously very very low. But on the hindsight the owner might have bought it when prices have not spiraled exponentially lately.
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This is in Setia Alam. It was probably bought when people were still thinking prices would go up 10-20% each year.
prody
post Apr 23 2017, 11:14 AM

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QUOTE(podracerx1 @ Apr 22 2017, 01:03 PM)
According to Prestige Realty Sdn Bhd sales and leasing manager Chris Lee (who closed the deal) the seller who was moving to another area sold the semi-dee at RM2.4 million, lower than his initial asking price of RM2.8 million.

The previous owner had bought the semi-dee for about RM2.2 million seven years ago.

http://www.theedgeproperty.com.my/content/...ampang-selangor

The appreciation is less than 2% p.a compounded, less than bank fd rate. it seems landed property may not be a hedge to inflation.
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Yeah, property is not a hedge for inflation if you buy it at inflated prices.
prody
post May 29 2019, 11:31 AM

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The bottom has not been reached yet.
Rental yield is far too low.

prody
post May 29 2019, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(ChAOoz @ May 29 2019, 11:38 AM)
Considering all asset class yield nowadays, low yield is the new norm.

So don't expect yield go up anytime soon unless there is a major financial reform globally from stocks, to bonds, and even property.
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Yeah, it will not happen soon, this is a slow process.
prody
post Nov 28 2020, 05:51 PM

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Looks like the bubble is slowly deflating in the higher end market and faster for the "cheaper" properties between 300k-1m.
prody
post Jan 13 2021, 03:35 PM

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Why buy when you can rent so much cheaper? Prices will keep dropping until buying becomes more expensive than renting.
prody
post Feb 18 2021, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Jan 18 2021, 05:39 PM)
got people still think malaysian property in a bubble? hahaha..

We gone through pandemic, gone through stock market crash, gone through bitcoin crash,
2021 liao and property market still as stable as it has ever been.. Infact, prices have gone up. LOL.
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Yeah, there is a bubble here.

You can compare property prices here to more developed countries where the income is much higher.

You can also compare price-to-rent ratio here and there.

Then you will know that property is very overpriced currently.

prody
post Feb 21 2021, 10:49 AM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Feb 18 2021, 09:06 PM)
No it's not..

A standard middle wage income in KL is at least 8k-12k a month.
rent in KL is cheap.


Property prices are hovering around RM 800k - 1.2mil
this is okay still.

Compare this to say Australia, Melbourne/Sydney. Aussie average income is roughly 7-10k aud a month. Average property price in CBD is around 950-1.5mil aud for a small townhouse.

But taxes in Australia is much higher. So you have to factor that in your decision.

Property price in Malaysia is still 5x to 7x of your annual income.

Comparable to other countries, where property can easily reach 10x - 20x of your annual income.

Malaysia property prices is still reasonable.
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Your post shows an example of Kuala Lumpur, but concludes property prices in Malaysia are cheap.
I will go with it and discuss prices in KL vs other big cities instead of discussing country vs country.

I see you picked some numbers from here and there and then compared it to one of the most expensive cities for property in the world, to somehow come to the conclusion that prices in Malaysia are still reasonable.

You actually don’t need to pick random numbers and just go to a site like numbeo.com
You can see for yourself KL property prices are one of the highest compared to income.
Mortgage as percentage of income is an easy to understand indicator for comparison.
KL: 77.73%
Sydney: 59.85%
Brussels: 36.98%
Houston: 15.70%

KL
Sydney
Brussels
Houston

I do agree with you that rent prices are still ok here. But that’s not what I stated in my first post. I stated property pries are high compared to income. And I stated price to rent ratios are high. You can compare price to rent ratios also on the same site.

It is a good time to rent and a good time to sell, but not a good time to buy.

prody
post Feb 22 2021, 08:51 AM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Feb 21 2021, 01:39 PM)
https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Asia/Ma...re-meter-prices

Your figures are out.. check out the above link.

KL is even cheaper than Bangkok.
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You are moving the goalpost.
In your first reply to me you were cherry picking.


prody
post Feb 22 2021, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Feb 21 2021, 01:42 PM)
I live in KL. Everyone I know age 26-60 makes between 8k to 20k.
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Anecdotal evidence
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also: Cherry picking
Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes: evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony.

The term is sometimes used in a legal context to describe certain kinds of testimony which are uncorroborated by objective, independent evidence such as notarized documentation, photographs, audio-visual recordings, etc.

When used in advertising or promotion of a product, service, or idea, anecdotal reports are often called a testimonial, which are highly regulated[1] or banned in some[which?] jurisdictions.

When compared to other types of evidence, anecdotal evidence is generally regarded as limited in value due to a number of potential weaknesses, but may be considered within the scope of scientific method as some anecdotal evidence can be both empirical and verifiable, e.g. in the use of case studies in medicine. Other anecdotal evidence, however, does not qualify as scientific evidence, because its nature prevents it from being investigated by the scientific method. Where only one or a few anecdotes are presented, there is a larger chance that they may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.[2][3] Similarly, psychologists have found that due to cognitive bias people are more likely to remember notable or unusual examples rather than typical examples.[4] Thus, even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience. Accurate determination of whether an anecdote is typical requires statistical evidence.[5] Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy[6] and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences of close peers which may not be typical.

In all forms of anecdotal evidence its reliability by objective independent assessment may be in doubt. This is a consequence of the informal way the information is gathered, documented, presented, or any combination of the three. The term is often used to describe evidence for which there is an absence of documentation, leaving verification dependent on the credibility of the party presenting the evidence.
prody
post Feb 22 2021, 08:52 AM

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Not sure if you are trolling or serious. It will be good for you to really read through people's advice when they give it to you, as opposed to trying to argue your way out of it.

This post has been edited by prody: Feb 22 2021, 08:55 AM
prody
post Feb 22 2021, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(Liamness @ Feb 22 2021, 11:50 AM)
if you don't think you can earn even 8k ringgit in KL is not achievable, then that is your problem, not mine.  tongue.gif

I already said you can supplement your income by doing outside job from your usual full-time job. So easy and straight-forward.. But noo, you want to post on a forum about how sad your lives are that you can't even afford a property in KL..

I have lived in SG, Aus, Canada and Malaysia. I can tell you for a fact that buying your own house in Malaysia is by far and away, the easiest to accomplish.

Try buying a property in Toronto, where the Chinese and HK citizen have been ramping up prices there for half a century. Same thing in Australia now. You haven't seen a bubble until you go to Australia and see for yourself what a property bubble looks like.

As for SG? sure, public housing is affordable. But people in SG are restricted in their property ownership, choices and what they can or can't do with their HDB flat. Not to mention, nobody in SG knows what is going to happen after their 99 year property expires. Government can claim it back, can demolish it, or renew the lease. Nobody knows and that affects their prices as the age comes closer to expiration.

Malaysia is still a hidden gem of property ownership. And alot of foreigners are also attracted by the property here. In your unlikely scenario that the local KL market can't support ownership of property prices, then the foreigners certainly can. You can cry until the cows come home, but wishing a demise on property prices in Malaysia, especially in KL where landed prop is hard to come by, is an unlikely scenario. Certainly not within our lifetime. If there is a price drop, I will buy some more units. But I don't even see the prices dropping. It will remain stable for the next few years, and there will be 2-4% appreciation in the prices.
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Ok, it's kopitiam time I see.

Enjoy buying the "cheap" property here. thumbsup.gif
prody
post Apr 6 2021, 09:26 AM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Mar 31 2021, 12:32 PM)
Excessive auction units show need for sustainable valuation model

SINCE 2019, the property market has been flooded with auction units spanning from Kuala Lumpur to Johor Baru.

According to property agents, 4,000 to 6,000 units of properties are flooding the market every year. Some units still fail to be sold off despite five or six rounds of price reduction. I came across one apartment in Puchong, Selangor, that went through almost 10 rounds of price reduction before it could be sold off.

To put this into perspective, every reduction usually amounts to 10 per cent off the previous price. The heaviest consequence is faced by property owners, whose dream-come-true moment of purchasing a new property ends in a nightmare.

Additionally, the number of auctions is not just high, but has surged to a new level, turning individual purchasers' nightmare into a nationwide one. I say so because property purchase is typically the biggest life decision for most people. As such, a wrong decision will definitely entail consequences severe enough to ruin one's family and even nation. Worse still, property transactions are gearing base, meaning that almost all transactions are sealed via bank borrowing by the purchaser.

Therefore, a plunge in property prices not only erodes owners' wealth, but pushes the borrower into limbo as well. If momentum builds in this direction, banks will encounter plenty of non-performing loans, jeopardising their balance sheet.

Ultimately, if we let this trend continue without any effective measures, individual purchasers, banks, and the nation will pay a costly price and may even slump into a crisis. We need to study the problem to determine the critical factors attributed to this phenomenon.

Once identified, effective measures can be rolled out to ensure the sustainability of property development nationwide. Most importantly, the harmony of the family unit can be sustained.

From my in-depth analysis of the property market over the last two decades, property prices started to gain an upward momentum in the 2010s, after almost a decade of inactive or stagnant prices.

The soaring prices became even more significant between 2014 and 2016. As a result, most developers started launching new properties with sky-high pricing. The booming economy and easy credit acquisition also contribute d to high property prices. Such an increase in property prices is in fact good for households, as it uplifts their social status.

However, property price hikes must fundamentally be economically supported. From 2015 to 2016, some property developers set prices at an extremely high level.

While they generate handsome profits, the adverse and nightmarish effects of their actions are what households and the nation are facing now — a record number of auction unit s and countless bankrupt purchasers, many of whom are still young. I noted a real case of this scenario that played out in Cyberjaya.

A few years ago, a young individual (A), in his 30s, bought a luxury apartment unit at a staggering price of RM900,000 for 775 sq ft — approximately RM1,161.29 per square foot.

This pricing rate in Cyberjaya is shocking, but what is even more alarming is that there were many more properties launched at the time with such prices.

Purchasers were still bullish in their outlook despite sky-rocketing prices. Unsurprisingly, these property purchasers' bullish stance has turned into a catastrophe, particularly in the last two years. To illustrate, A had secured a loan for RM800,000, equivalent to approximately a RM4,000 monthly loan installment.

However, the market rental price could only stretch up to RM1,500 a month for that unit. Expectedly, after three years, A was unable to serve the loan commitment. In 2020, A's unit was auctioned off at a mere RM265,000.

In conclusion, A did not just lose the apartment unit through the forced auction sale, but has also slumped into outstanding debt of around RM500,000 that will impact his life. Certainly, this case depicts only the tip of the gargantuan iceberg that is the property market. Two questions stand out in my mind.

How were developers possibly allowed to sell at outrageous prices? How did banks allow such high valuations?

Therefore, parties ranging from regulators and developers to bankers and valuers must formulate a sustainable valuation model for property values to achieve mutually beneficial and interdependent social, environmental, and economic goals.

Only a sustainable valuation model can guarantee sustainable property development and a harmonious society.

https://www.nst.com.my/opinion/columnists/2...valuation-model
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I still remember some BBBUUU people that kept on pushing people to buy property at any price. Then at some point one of the busiest property forums just closed down. And since then, most of the BBBUUU people in lowyat have disappeared from the forum.
prody
post Apr 6 2021, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(kevyeoh @ Apr 6 2021, 09:28 AM)
May i know which property forum you referring to as the busiest?
thank you.
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Can't remember the name. If you were around, looking for property, around 2010 you would have been there.
prody
post Apr 6 2021, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(Syie9^_^ @ Apr 6 2021, 10:01 AM)
Defer date will not reduce supply either. It is inevitable for price fall even it comes to availability.
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Landlords renting out office space are really in big trouble with the new WFH culture growing in popularity.
prody
post Apr 6 2021, 08:05 PM

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QUOTE(Syie9^_^ @ Apr 6 2021, 07:52 PM)
Really? never see them cry on street also unsure.gif
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It's a logical conclusion.

Office space was already oversupplied before covid.
Now more companies shifting to work from home, means office space even more oversupplied.

Some landlords will obviously suffer.

 

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