Anyone from northern region going to FSM event on 7th Jan?
FundSuperMart v17 (FSM) MY : Online UT Platform, UT DIY : Babystep to Investing :D
FundSuperMart v17 (FSM) MY : Online UT Platform, UT DIY : Babystep to Investing :D
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Dec 28 2016, 10:41 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
Anyone from northern region going to FSM event on 7th Jan?
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Dec 30 2016, 05:30 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
QUOTE(wodenus @ Dec 24 2016, 02:46 AM) #1 is dangerous because it's money that makes money, more money makes more money. If say you are in a fund that has lost 50% and you switch, you have to make double what the old fund will make in the future just be say you are in a better position. For instance if you are in fund A and it is down 50℅. Then you switch and say at the end of the year your new fund has made 8℅ and your old fund 6℅. You think you made the right decision but you didn't, because 6℅ of 100℅ is more than 8℅ of 50℅. I'm not sure if anyone else brought this up before as I'm trying to catch up with this thread. I went several pages after and did not see a reply to this.It just looks as if you did. So you are eroding capital, but all the time you think you are doing better. Or you can follow FSMs portfolios. Your statement is incorrect actually. New fund (8%) would outperform old fund (6%) and here is why. When old fund increased by 6%, that is 6% out of 50%, not out of 100% since your fund at that point in time worth 50%. Your 50% can't just suddenly doubled become 100% if it stays at old fund. |
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Dec 31 2016, 10:48 AM
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#3
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1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
QUOTE(wodenus @ Dec 30 2016, 06:10 PM) Actually that would be 6% out of 0, because you switched everything to the new fund, you don't gain anything from the old fund any more. I only see your flawed argument. How can you compare a drop of 50% in old fund and suddenly it recovered and made another 6% with a new fund that just made 8% in the same period. When your old fund lost 50%. It need to make 100% in order for your value equal to old value. $10k drop to $5k, need to make 100% profit in order to get back to 100% value again $10k. You are comparing 112% profit of old fund with 8% profit of new fund. You need to compare in same timeline.Let's look at this by the numbers. Scenario 1 You start with 10K. It drops to 5K. It recovers and adds 6%. What do you have now? 10K + 6%. Scenario 2 You start with 10K. It drops to 5K. You switch all your capital to the new fund. How much can you switch? you can only switch 5k So you switch 5K to the new fund. It makes 8%. What do you have now? 5K + 8% Which one is better? Do you see the trap here? you look at 6% and 8% and you think, you have done better. But you forget, that you lost 50% by switching, when you could have held on and made 6% out of 10k. Remember your starting point for scenario one is say, X. When it drops to X - 50%, then it recovers to X+6%, your stats will still say 6% profit. If you switch at (x-50%), you will only switch (x-50%) capital, because that's all you have, because you have to realize your loss before you switch. Now the stats here will play a trick on you. You don't see the actual loss, because as far as new fund is concerned, you are starting with 5K capital. Your old fund is wiped from the table, you don't see your 50% loss, so that is easy to ignore. And then your new fund on the list says 8%. Later your old fund recovers and makes 6%, and your new fund makes 8%. What you will see on your list is that you have made 8%. Then you look at your old fund at you see that it has increased only 6% from the price you bought in at. And so you think you have made the right decision If you don't understand this, I'm not sure how to explain this to you any more In your another argument that people might mislead the false profitability of new fund versus lost of 50% in old fund, you will see everything in the form of portfolio P/L. You do include old fund losses in your portfolio calculation, do you? This post has been edited by kimyee73: Dec 31 2016, 10:53 AM |
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Dec 31 2016, 10:55 AM
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#4
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1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
QUOTE(wodenus @ Dec 30 2016, 08:40 PM) [attachmentid=8334409] Your left is 112% profit, right is 8% profit in the same timeline. Of course 112% is better than 8% profit, no argument there.The one on the left is a 6% gain, no switching (Scenario 1) The one on the right is scenario 2, a 8% gain after switching at the middle point from Scenario 1. |
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Dec 31 2016, 01:45 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
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Dec 31 2016, 01:49 PM
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#6
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1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
QUOTE(wodenus @ Dec 31 2016, 12:18 PM) Exactly.. some people are already calling it 112℅ profit I'm not some people, just quote me will do. No need to insinuate.But if you keep switching.. you have 100% chance of losing money. People invest because they can make money long term.. if you look at the long term charts.. you will see that pretty much every fund makes money in ten years' time. Diversification and time. That always works. |
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Jan 3 2017, 02:15 PM
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#7
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1,007 posts Joined: Oct 2006 From: island up north |
QUOTE(Vanguard 2015 @ Jan 1 2017, 12:15 AM) Happy New Year everyone! Happy New Year! Been busy for last couple of days. Now just reading page 15 kimyee73 and wongmunkeong aka Sifu Wong, remember the saying, 'playing piano to a cow?'. Don't go there. It is a waste of time. 😀 BTW, can someone please teach me how to tag another forumer? Thank you in advance. P/S : Edited to tag forumer |
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