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> How about lowering property prices?, Flipper to perish

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scorptim
post Sep 30 2016, 07:40 PM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Sep 30 2016, 05:57 PM)
i waited also... keep telling them I can afford certain range di.. they troll like no tomorrow..

furthermore.. I m buying for own stay.. not speculation... di anticipated to drop anyway
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I understand you buy for own stay, but buy for own stay also, it's not wise to buy a place where the price will drop. House is an asset should never buy depreciating asset.

I know you won't flip it but just in case la any shitstorm happen, buying a house which appreciates in value could be helpful. At least if any emergency, you can just knock 10% less than the market price at that time and still have some money after selling. You buy overpriced places where the price will drop, later if got emergency that forces you to sell, you don't even know if the loan balance can be cleared from selling the house.

QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Sep 30 2016, 06:01 PM)
yes definitely... Pak Hitam factors...... or bangla factors... or prostitute factors say like prominent projects newly vp like batu 9 cheras aafter the tolls..

4 towers there straight away gg.com (naga viper oso gg.com)
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Which condo is this?

QUOTE(axisresidence17 @ Sep 30 2016, 07:29 PM)
Yes. Most subsale now selling "below market price".. gg.com oledy?
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Depends if the below market price is lower than the original price they bought it for or not. But most people who bought in last 2 years would certainly gg.com if have to sell below market price now, coz most of their properties didn't appreciate much in past 2 years. They better have enough holding power otherwise die la. Those who bought this year, be ready to die if can't hold for at least 3 to 5 years after this. Hahaha.
bearbearwong
post Sep 30 2016, 07:46 PM

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QUOTE(scorptim @ Sep 30 2016, 07:40 PM)
I understand you buy for own stay,  but buy for own stay also,  it's not wise to buy a place where the price will drop. House is an asset should never buy depreciating asset.

I know you won't flip it but just in case la any shitstorm happen, buying a house which appreciates in value could be helpful. At least if any emergency, you can just knock 10% less than the market price at that time and still have some money after selling. You buy overpriced places where the price will drop,  later if got emergency that forces you to sell, you don't even know if the loan balance can be cleared from selling the house.
Which condo is this?
Depends if the below market price is lower than the original price they bought it for or not. But most people who bought in last 2 years would certainly gg.com if have to sell below market price now,  coz most of their properties didn't appreciate much in past 2 years. They better have enough holding power otherwise die la. Those who bought this year,  be ready to die if can't hold for at least 3 to 5 years after this.  Hahaha.
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no body wants to buy depreciating assests... but at certain time.. you gotta settle down anyway... so guess is my bad luck

you city lar bang
TSkurtkob78
post Sep 30 2016, 07:46 PM

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ha ha ha. talk so much. flipper going underground also. ha ha ha. padan muka
riezzien
post Sep 30 2016, 07:52 PM

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100% profit for a developer is a loss.
Thats how they do business.
scorptim
post Sep 30 2016, 07:52 PM

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QUOTE(kurtkob78 @ Sep 30 2016, 07:46 PM)
ha ha ha. talk so much. flipper going underground also. ha ha ha. padan muka
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Those who bought recently conlanfirm die within next 1-2 yrs

But at that time, you dun forget to buy a unit for yourself own stay la.

Property DDD happens very rarely and this is one of those rare occasions. Make full use of it, I can guarantee the DDD trend will only last 2-3 yrs max when it happens then might stagnant for few years but after that will be back to UUU.

aku_ker
post Sep 30 2016, 07:54 PM

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QUOTE(axisresidence17 @ Sep 30 2016, 07:29 PM)
Yes. Most subsale now selling "below market price".. gg.com oledy?
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What is gg.com?
TSkurtkob78
post Sep 30 2016, 08:19 PM

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QUOTE(scorptim @ Sep 30 2016, 07:52 PM)
Those who bought recently conlanfirm die within next 1-2 yrs

But at that time, you dun forget to buy a unit for yourself own stay la.

Property DDD happens very rarely and this is one of those rare occasions. Make full use of it, I can guarantee the DDD trend will only last 2-3 yrs max when it happens then might stagnant for few years but after that will be back to UUU.
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already 2. i want to buy my third. since only can get 70%. . need to accumulate cash for the initial cash outlay. if price drop a bit, the can direct buy.

This post has been edited by kurtkob78: Sep 30 2016, 08:24 PM
scorptim
post Sep 30 2016, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(kurtkob78 @ Sep 30 2016, 08:19 PM)
already 2. i want to buy my third. since only can get 70%. . need to accumulate cash for the initial cash outlay. if price drop a bit, the can direct buy.
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Sell 1 fast fast now, then when drop reach lowest point, buy a better unit or 2 units
TSkurtkob78
post Sep 30 2016, 11:01 PM

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QUOTE(scorptim @ Sep 30 2016, 09:31 PM)
Sell 1  fast fast now,  then when drop reach lowest point,  buy a better unit or 2 units
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its ok, the rent more than cover the installment
TSkurtkob78
post Sep 30 2016, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(NagaViper @ Sep 30 2016, 11:44 PM)
Haha si loud but can't come out with 20% DP, No wonder day & night curse house price drop.. so is tak mampu beli & holding personal vendetta on other buyer.. doh.gif
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flipper spotted. butthurt donno why.

hope flipper go underground very soon
Showtime747
post Oct 1 2016, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Sep 30 2016, 05:48 PM)
or nagaviper, this round only showtime747 is safe... many investors kong also... especially those BBB u know... showtime747 props in PJ... quite secured (if he tells the truth) but if not... gg
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Why PJ quite secured ? You mean price won't DDD in PJ ?
Showtime747
post Oct 1 2016, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(bearbearwong @ Sep 30 2016, 06:05 PM)
then lin peh last time u keep saying buy proton apa cerita?
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Because your salary RM4k+ buy RM700k+ property is way over-stretched. Buy RM300k property you should be ok.

You are over-stretch high risk property buyer. You better hope economy won't turn bad. If you lost job + property crash, bankruptcy waiting for you...
Showtime747
post Oct 1 2016, 10:14 AM

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Find it very funny. Scorptim and BeastB gave their unbiased opinion. They were never staunch BBB, but very pragmatic to the current situation. But the DDD like bearbear, kurtkob, axisresidence very fast to conclude. They can't even tolerate alternative view...
OPT
post Oct 1 2016, 10:27 AM

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Experts predict between 2018 and 2019

AT a recent property seminar organised by Asian Strategy & Leadership Institute, several developers and property consultants had a debate predicting when the property market will pick up.

Real Estate and Housing Developers’ Association Malaysia (Rehda) patron Datuk Jeffrey Ng Tiong Lip reckoned the residential sector should recover next year or in 2018.

Ng was the moderator for the session on The Future Outlook and Challenges of the Housing and Property Sector.

Property consultants Savills Malaysia managing director Allan Soo, who specialises in the retail malls, expects a 2019 recovery.

Office market specialist Jones Lang Wootton executive director Malathi Thevendre declined to make any predictions. “It all depends ...,” she says.

Ng says the current slow housing market is actually good over the long term, although it is painful in the short term. It all depends on how we manage “the noise”, he says.

There are lots of noises at present, both on the national and international level.

“If next year is election year, the recovery – if there is one – will be after that because between now and then, there are so many uncertainties.

“There is a lack of clarity at the moment,” says Ng.

His reading of the property crystal ball of a 2017/2018 turnaround is by far the most positive and contrasts with Kenanga Investment Bank Bhd equity research head Sarah Lim Fern Chieh.



Lim expects house prices to be flattish or slightly weak depending on locations “over the next four to five years, if there are no major policy changes”.

Her rationale for a longer down-cycle is simple. If your destination is Genting Highlands, but you are driving in the opposite direction, you will need a longer time to arrive there when you finally realise you are driving in the wrong direction.

Although it is widely accepted that the property cycle is between eight to 10 years, within this cycle are “mini two-year cycles. There were two-year up-cycle in 1999-2000 after the Asian Financial Crisis, and another in 2003-2004 and 2007/2007.

But after the 2008 Global Financial Crisis, Malaysia had an extended five-year up-cycle between 2010 and 2014 with prices peaking in 2013, and this was largely due to quantitative easing (QE).

She is, therefore, expecting a longer consolidation period of between four and five years, starting from 2015, before the next up-cycle, barring any policy changes and the global economic climate.

She is also expecting the property market to experience structural changes due to affordability and liquidity factors, among others.

More realistic pricing

Notwithstanding the fuzzy horizon, there are nevertheless a few certainties which may well put the sector on a better footing.

First, home ownership has become a national issue.

Second, the government, at both federal and state levels being landowners, are stepping up on affordable housing.

Third, prices are expected to be more realistic going forward.

Rehda president Datuk Seri FD Iskandar Mohamed Mansor is seeking government cooperation to reduce or waive development charges and other charges, collectively known as compliance costs, in order to bring down prices as this is “too challenging” for private developers to go it alone, considering today’s high land prices.

“If the Government wants developers to build more affordable housing, give us cheaper premiums or don’t charge at all.

“We will then see more stability in prices, or even a reduction, if development charges and all sorts of other charges imposed on developers come down,” said FD Iskandar at a Rehda first half-year review recently.

He says property development and land matters have been the biggest revenue earner for every state. Both federal and state governments own large tracts of land. Although FD Iskandar had made this call before, he was very passionate and firm this time around. Other developers, previously silent, are also quite vocal about the various land and development charges they have to fork out.

This is probably the first time developers are coming together to make a collective public call to seek a waiver or reduction of development and other aspects of compliance cost. The effectiveness of that call depends on the Government’s will to act.

While developers can clamour for such waivers, what is facing the market today is weak sales and this in turn is forcing developers to tweak pricing and strategy a bit, hence the drop in the number of launches as they try push unsold stock.

Andaman group managing director Datuk Seri Vincent Tiew says developers will be offering “more realistic pricing” from now onwards with location being a paramount factor.

There will be more affordable housing and this can be seen from the various affordable housing projects being planned by both the federal and state government although the end-products are slow in coming.

This, says Tiew, can be seen in the various agencies under the federal and state governments, among them being PR1MA Corp mandated to build 500,000 units of affordable housing units by 2018, as outlined in Budget 2013.

A total of 240,000 houses were due by end-2015, with an annual mandate for 80,000 between 2013 and 2015. The number of completed units was 883 at the end of 2015, says Tiew. By the end of this year, 10,000 units are scheduled to be completed. The number of units approved to date are 232,807 against 1.24 million PR1MA registrants as of February 2016. All eyes will be on the affordable segment in the coming Budget 2017.

Healthy demand

The demand for housing has always been there. The issue is affordability, says Kenanga’s Sarah Lim.

“Of late, developers are beginning to price units at RM500,000 and below,” she says.

The current change in direction is attributed to societal and government pressure. Unsold stock and government pressure forced developers to relook their pricing strategy.If developers keep building RM1mil homes, when the threshold is RM500,000 and less, they will be left holding unsold stock. In order to move stocks, creative marketing/financing strategies are employed to move these stocks.

Lim says if developers were unable to meet at least 40% of their sales target by mid-year, they would be unable to meet this year’s targets.

More than two-thirds missed their sales targets last year.

“Prior to this, what was booked was considered sold. Now, this is no longer true,” Lim says.

Lim says there are two issues here, the pressure on the sector as the rate of aborted sales crept up and the people’s demand for realistic prices.

“What we are seeing today is the government’s influence. It is actually steering the market in the right direction,” she says.

Renting the way forward

The other certainty is observed in the rental market, which is expected to continue to be soft next year.

There will be “low occupancy rate” for projects completed last year (2015) and this year, with rental yield at less than 3% a year, says Andaman group’s Tiew.

It is cheaper to rent than to buy. There is so much supply going around and the purchasing power of the ringgit is shrinking.

Selangor State Development Corp (PKNS) senior manager (corporate planning and transformation) Norita Mohd Sidek advocates renting.

She says if there is a 50% loan rejection rate for affordable housing, and considering the limited supply by private developers, renting may be the only option.

She suggests building affordable housing cities the likes of Stuyvesant Town’s Peter Copper Village, Manhattan New York and counters the argument that there is no money to be made from affordable housing.

In October 2015, Blackstone led a deal that put Manhattan’s biggest apartment complex in the hands of the world’s largest private equity firm and maintain some affordable housing at the property.

Blackstone and Canada’s real estate company Ivanhoe Cambridge Inc acquired the 80-acre enclave for about US$5.3bil. Rent is kept below market rates for some 5,000 units. Public transport and other amenities must be part of the development for it to succeed. “Government grants and resources are needed to identify the right location to built more council homes,” she says in her paper.

In today’s low yield environment, pension funds around the world are looking at other ways to generate dividends besides equities and fixed income securities. They are buying into infrastructures and large township developments where there are economies of scale for maintenance.

Malaysia’s national housing dilemma cannot be solved by profit-oriented private developers alone. The golden property years between 2010 and 2014 have been intoxicating, having resulted in expectations of 20% to 30% rise in sales year-on-year, like the manufacturing sector. But the property sector is quite unlike manufacturing. The reflection point was seen in 2014 after the government introduced certain cooling measures and anti-speculation sales gimmick.

Going forward, the emphasis on housing priced RM500,000 and below means developers have to sell more units to make the same sales value as previous years.

“They have to sacrifice some of their margins. Higher profit margins can be had from the mid- to high-end segments,” says Lim. They will have to work harder to help buyers secure loans.

This search for some form of cohesion in the national housing arena has taken a bit of time. Hopefully, the coming Budget 2017 will pave the way for more positive action.
axisresidence17
post Oct 1 2016, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Oct 1 2016, 10:14 AM)
Find it very funny. Scorptim and BeastB gave their unbiased opinion. They were never staunch BBB, but very pragmatic to the current situation. But the DDD like bearbear, kurtkob, axisresidence very fast to conclude. They can't even tolerate alternative view...
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DDD lah..how to UUU already..petronas also laying off staff, rental can not cover instalment still want to UUU?
aaron1717
post Oct 1 2016, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(zaman_chem @ Sep 28 2016, 01:14 AM)
obviously demand is low n supply is more that is why developer want help... they know less pipu able to buy house cost RM400k-RM10M.
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generally i dont think demand is low... rather than the demand is not afforded to own any condo from 500k onwards... given that all the RUMAWIP for first house buyers below 300k can be sapu out easily... usually within weeks will left only the bumi lots are not sold.... you can see the first house buyers are desperate to own a house... but the private properties were just too much for them to bear... and for most of them... they only wish to own one decent condo only... and thats it... every year there will be new generation who came out to work and stabilize and look for property... this undeniable fact... you cant only look at those flippers... the first house buyers maybe much more than u thought...
zaman_chem
post Oct 1 2016, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(aaron1717 @ Oct 1 2016, 11:08 AM)
generally i dont think demand is low... rather than the demand is not afforded to own any condo from 500k onwards... given that all the RUMAWIP for first house buyers below 300k can be sapu out easily... usually within weeks will left only the bumi lots are not sold.... you can see the first house buyers are desperate to own a house... but the private properties were just too much for them to bear... and for most of them... they only wish to own one decent condo only... and thats it... every year there will be new generation who came out to work and stabilize and look for property... this undeniable fact... you cant only look at those flippers... the first house buyers maybe much more than u thought...
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of cuz first house buyer high... but demand for house above RM500k is low. I dont know why developer is stupid enough by keep making house that most people don't buy or unable to buy. Most demand are below RM500k or lower. Built RM500k n below pipu will flock to the showroom.
aaron1717
post Oct 1 2016, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(zaman_chem @ Oct 1 2016, 11:19 AM)
of cuz first house buyer high... but demand for house above RM500k is low. I dont know why developer is stupid enough by keep making house that most people don't buy or unable to buy. Most demand are below RM500k or lower. Built RM500k n below pipu will flock to the showroom.
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well for business point of view... the main concern here is... try to maintain the market price closely with other developers... if you wanna start a price war... be sure you are ready for it... the big developers set the game... and the small developers gonna play together... anyone who willing to press the price down... the big developers can easily dabao u with their financial strength... hence u see nowadays market... so many developers u unheard of... they just follow the herd and sell it at the same price... of course.. they wouldn't want to reduce margin even they are doing reli good... hence u see why nowadays package 22% rebate! free fully furnish! bla bla bla!
aaron1717
post Oct 1 2016, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(axisresidence17 @ Oct 1 2016, 10:53 AM)
DDD lah..how to UUU already..petronas also laying off staff, rental can not cover instalment still want to UUU?
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price for now wont UUU.... but for long term investment... if you have good holding power... usually bad times are good time to go in... all the previous property players who succeeded are the one who pick the dead fish during times are bad... not buying property when the economy already stabilized... it will be too late by then... owners all have a good time... they wont sell you undervalue property anymore...
aaron1717
post Oct 1 2016, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(NagaViper @ Oct 1 2016, 11:36 AM)
Many first house buyer won't wanna stay at RumahWiP.

I know many, there deem RumahWIP like PPR aka low keras.


There are plenty of sub 500K house now 500-600sf if you are OK with the size... laugh.gif
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yea... thats why i say.... the demand is there... just they dont want/picky/and not afford to own better ones... because those RUMAWIP... despite all the criticism... they are selling really well... is very hot selling... hence i dont really believe in supply more than demand even as at now... the demand always there... just that salary and jobs are not growing in line...

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