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 Fundsupermart.com v15, 基金超市第十五章 - Rise the Dragon

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Vanguard 2015
post Sep 9 2016, 05:42 PM

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How long should UT be kept?

It depends on whether we are traders or long term investors. Some of the investors here are long term, some are traders and some are a mixture of both (like myself).

The average period should be about 3 to 5 years to ride out the fluctuations in the market.

P/S: One last category is the one time investor. These are the investors who invested one lump sum at the height of the markets, got burnt and then swore off unit trust investing forever because it is "cheating money".

This post has been edited by Vanguard 2015: Sep 9 2016, 05:43 PM
zacknistelrooy
post Sep 9 2016, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(David3700 @ Sep 9 2016, 04:56 PM)
Hi all seniors, I have some dumb question here....
How long shall an UT be kept ?
Is it like shares or forex that you buy low and sell high, then wait for it drop and buy again ?
*
That depends on your investment time horizon and liquidity needs.

Trying to time it to sell at the high and buy at the low is not easy and you may miss appreciation opportunities.

Usually you would use Ringgit Cost averaging which is buying every month or every year a little bit.

UT is different from Forex and Shares as there is Annual Management Charge,Annual Expense Ratio and Trustee Fee which add up over time.

So you have to decide what is your investment plan and execute from there.
dasecret
post Sep 9 2016, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(T231H @ Sep 9 2016, 03:12 PM)
hmm.gif i may be over sensitive,...but if i can recall..somewhere last month there seems to be some "bad" blood postings by you..
sorry if i am wrong..
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Err... lost? What kind of bad blood? I thought I always bad blood with every other person

Usually public mutual kena the most, saving plans insurance also

Even FSM when they don't sell select bond to me at 0% SC rclxs0.gif
wil-i-am
post Sep 9 2016, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Sep 9 2016, 12:13 PM)
How? share please....
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Hahaha...
I have a special relationship with Lenglui brows.gif
IJK... I know 1 of the "H" n "C" personally
T231H
post Sep 9 2016, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(David3700 @ Sep 9 2016, 04:56 PM)
Hi all seniors, I have some dumb question here....
How long shall an UT be kept ?
Is it like shares or forex that you buy low and sell high, then wait for it drop and buy again ?
*
Is it like shares or forex that you buy low and sell high, then wait for it drop and buy again ?
This is done by the FM of the UT...they will most probably sell off those higher valuation stocks and buy those seems to be lower valued stocks.

UTs investors would normally allocate into sectors/country/regions or mkts ratios according to their risk appetite to form a portfolio ....
When that segment is deemed to be of higher valued,...they would reduce the allocation to it or bring it back to their targeted % of allocation....

usually that is what they call rebalancing....

What To Do If Certain Markets Are Getting Expensive?
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/resea...SJBlog_20150402

Rebalanced my portfolio for 2014
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/resea...SJBlog_20131227

The Importance of Rebalancing A Portfolio
https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...-Portfolio-5374

the above was some of my good sunday read stuffs.....


kl_123
post Sep 9 2016, 06:47 PM

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Would like to ask opinion on % of allocation in core and supplementary portfolio , did you all practice the recommendation by FSM which supplementary portfolio (small cap, sector,reits, single country) not more than 20% of total portfolio?

Personally my portfolio around 40% in supplementary portfolio( due to heavy in eastspring small cap ∼15%, reits) in which FSM advisor recommend to change to core one. What u all think ?

This post has been edited by kl_123: Sep 9 2016, 07:00 PM
T231H
post Sep 9 2016, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(kl_123 @ Sep 9 2016, 06:47 PM)
Would like to ask opinion on % of allocation in core and supplementary portfolio , did you all practice the recommendation by FSM which supplementary portfolio (small cap, sector, single country) not more than 20% of total portfolio?

Personally my portfolio around 40% in supplementary portfolio( due to heavy in eastspring small cap) in which FSM advisor recommend to change to core one. What u all think ?
*
I think many here don't follow the recommended %....
each have their own outlook and faith in their selection...some follows zuxen's ball and some don't, in which for many times they are wrong, many times too they are corrects... biggrin.gif
it is their money and their choices....
UNLESS, they have given up hope on their own selections and some one else to suggest for them

40% and heavy in Small cap.....if you can take the heat...ok lor....but many qualified SIFUs would says that it is NOT good....
David3700
post Sep 9 2016, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(T231H @ Sep 9 2016, 06:05 PM)
Is it like shares or forex that you buy low and sell high, then wait for it drop and buy again ?
This is done by the FM of the UT...they will most probably sell off those higher valuation stocks and buy those seems to be lower valued stocks.

UTs investors would normally allocate into sectors/country/regions or mkts ratios according to their risk appetite to form a portfolio ....
When that segment is deemed to be of higher valued,...they would reduce the allocation to it or bring it back to their targeted % of allocation....

usually that is what they call rebalancing....

What To Do If Certain Markets Are Getting Expensive?
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/resea...SJBlog_20150402

Rebalanced my portfolio for 2014
https://secure.fundsupermart.com/main/resea...SJBlog_20131227

The Importance of Rebalancing A Portfolio
https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...-Portfolio-5374

the above was some of my good sunday read stuffs.....
*
Great. Will try to digest them....
lukenn
post Sep 9 2016, 09:02 PM

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QUOTE(David3700 @ Sep 9 2016, 04:56 PM)
Hi all seniors, I have some dumb question here....
How long shall an UT be kept ?
Is it like shares or forex that you buy low and sell high, then wait for it drop and buy again ?
*
You're not asking the right questions.

My question to you : What is the purpose that you're investing?
David3700
post Sep 9 2016, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(lukenn @ Sep 9 2016, 09:02 PM)
You're not asking the right questions.

My question to you : What is the purpose that you're investing?
*
Earn money of course. Just not familiar with how to maximize return in UT biggrin.gif
yuatyi
post Sep 9 2016, 10:34 PM

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For me purpose of jumping into UT is because it is not as high risk as shares since we have FM to do the hardwork for us. And I want my money to work harder to stay on top of inflation and of course beat the FD rates. Haha. Sighhh but right now my portfolio return isn't that great. But I have heard it's normal for portfolio that is only about 1 year to not have much visible gain. Needs time and opportunity to build the momentum. Is that correct?

Anyways, I firmly believe 3 year is the minimum how long you should preserve a fund. For me I am trying my best to go beyond that to 7 years since I am heavy on Equity with high risk.

This post has been edited by yuatyi: Sep 9 2016, 11:09 PM
river.sand
post Sep 9 2016, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(David3700 @ Sep 9 2016, 10:04 PM)
Earn money of course. Just not familiar with how to maximize return in UT  biggrin.gif
*
1. Retirement
2. Children education
3. Wealth accumulation
4. Mas kahwin
5. Others (please specify)
T231H
post Sep 9 2016, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(yuatyi @ Sep 9 2016, 10:34 PM)
For me purpose is jumping into UT is because it's not as high risk as shares since we have FM to do the hardwork for us. And I want my money to work harder to stay on top of inflation and of course beat the FD rates. Haha. Sighhh but right now my portfolio return isn't that great. But I have heard it's normal for portfolio that is only about 1 year to not have much visible gain. Needs time and opportunity to build the momentum. Is that correct?

Anyways, I firmly believe 3 year is the minimum how long you should preserve a fund. For me I am trying my best to go beyond that to 7 years since I am heavy on Equity with high risk.
*
try page# 11, post# 210
yuatyi
post Sep 9 2016, 11:15 PM

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QUOTE(T231H @ Sep 9 2016, 10:53 PM)
try page# 11, post# 210
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QUOTE(T231H @ Sep 9 2016, 02:55 PM)
there are forummers that posted their portfolio's IRR at < 4% ..... after investing > 3yrs.
guess, they among other things went in at the wrong time.
just like those that went in heavy in M'sia thru previous local champions funds for the past 1 yr....
their returns is not as expected of their reputations......but what can they do...Bolehland mkt is just in need of Viagra.
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Thanks. I did note that during the time I started my portfolio in Oct 2015 most funds already high priced. At their peak I think. Then after creating the portfolio, money pumped in and all that, the market started to go down hill from there on till now only I get to see it picks up again. If not for the DCA maybe I wouldn't even see much positive to my portfolio right this moment. Also thank god I went along with diversification. So not too bad. It somewhat cushion the fall.

Are you luckier than me when you first started your portfolio at FSM? Did you manage to hit >6% back then?

This post has been edited by yuatyi: Sep 9 2016, 11:17 PM
dasecret
post Sep 10 2016, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(wil-i-am @ Sep 9 2016, 06:04 PM)
Hahaha...
I have a special relationship with Lenglui  brows.gif
IJK... I know 1 of the "H" n "C" personally
*
Didn't quite understand the "H" and "C"... but anyway sounds like I just gotta kwai kwai pay SC to buy select bond lor.... even with SC the IRR is a respectable 8+%, still worth it la

QUOTE(yuatyi @ Sep 9 2016, 10:28 AM)
Hi I am just a humble investor. Very new to UT and especially new to DIY UT. I have been following this awesome thread and trying hard to learn from best of the crop here. This thread is truly precious.  notworthy.gif

Below is my current portfolio. Have been keeping it since last year Oct. I have tweaked the initial recommended portfolio by FSM Client Investment Specialists about 4 to 5 months ago and dropped AmSchroder EEA to take up TA European EF. And also picked up EI Bond Fund. Nearly dropped Manulife India EF but luckily I preserved. Phew!  icon_rolleyes.gif  I think I best hang on to Manulife India EF and VA whenever I have extra cash. The volatility was a little nerve wrecking for a newbie like me.

My initial recommended portfolio was 70% equities fund, 30% fixed income fund. But I had to tweak it during the downturn and I am now roughly around 60% plus equities funds and 40% fixed income fund. I have been doing DCA diligently since the start of my portfolio but last month I have stopped the DCA since my investment amount has reached the desired percentage. So I am going to just VA from here onwards.
12.4%  Eastspring Investments Small-Cap Fund
13.9%  Kenanga Growth Fund

8.4%    RHB Global Fortune Fund
10.5%  CIMB-Principal Global Titans Fund

13.1%  CIMB-Principal Asia Pacific Dynamic Income Fund

3.6%    TA European Equity Fund

6.6%    Manulife India Equity Fund

11.5%  AMB Dana Arif Class A-MYR
11.3%  Eastspring Investment Bond Fund
8.7%    RHB Asian Total Return Fund

6%      RHB Cash Management Fund 2
I am currently thinking of dropping a bond fund. Perhaps AMB Dana Arif and go for Libra ASnita Bond Fund. Going to leave Eastspring IBF there just in case I need to shift allocation from my EISCF should things goes too crazy. I am still unsure if keeping RHB ATR on my portfolio is a good move since it does tends to drag profit abit. It really does not act much like how a bond fund should. Maybe I should just dump that sum into my RHB GFF?

I am also wondering if I have been overzealous and had over-diversified here. Although I have already checked with the friendly FSM Client Investment Specialist and assured my portfolio is still okay. By the way, I am looking at around 7 years horizon for my portfolio.

Gosh, I am still trying to figure out how to keep tabs of how much each investment profited or lost. The IRR and ROI thingy is  rclxub.gif

Thank you for reading this and hope if anyone could give this lost lamb a little pointer?  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif
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QUOTE(yuatyi @ Sep 9 2016, 11:15 PM)
Thanks. I did note that during the time I started my portfolio in Oct 2015 most funds already high priced. At their peak I think. Then after creating the portfolio, money pumped in and all that, the market started to go down hill from there on till now only I get to see it picks up again. If not for the DCA maybe I wouldn't even see much positive to my portfolio right this moment. Also thank god I went along with diversification. So not too bad. It somewhat cushion the fall.

Are you luckier than me when you first started your portfolio at FSM? Did you manage to hit >6% back then?
*
Hello fellow female forumer, glad to see more of the 'fairer' sex around thumbsup.gif

I was more itchy finger when I first started off, so it's not that bad, but if you want to trim, you can

Bond fund
I agree with your plan, drop AMB Dana Arif to pick up Asnita bond, why? See diagram
Attached Image
AMB Dana Arif is consistently below both EI bond and Asnita bond

In the same chart, I've another suggestion for you
Since buying AH select bond is not an option on FSM, you can consider switching the RHB ATR to RHB Asian Income fund. Why? ATR has higher volatility despite being a pure bond fund while Asian Income fund is a balanced fund with more consistent performance. But, will attract sales charge, this switch

Now, developed markets, do you really need 3 funds?
Attached Image

All 3 move in very similar directions lor. Personally I used to have RHB GEYF and didn't like it, alway lagged the other players. So if I'm you I would switch out of the Global Fortune Fund. But into what... I'm not sure if I want such a high developed markets exposure, GTF have not done well since beginning of the year

Lastly, I too started a portfolio in Oct 2015. It's doing ok, ROI 5.x% and I'm very glad that I took the RSP route instead of lumpsum. Otherwise it may still be in the red
yuatyi
post Sep 10 2016, 01:28 AM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Sep 10 2016, 12:20 AM)
Didn't quite understand the "H" and "C"... but anyway sounds like I just gotta kwai kwai pay SC to buy select bond lor.... even with SC the IRR is a respectable 8+%, still worth it la
Hello fellow female forumer, glad to see more of the 'fairer' sex around  thumbsup.gif

I was more itchy finger when I first started off, so it's not that bad, but if you want to trim, you can

Bond fund
I agree with your plan, drop AMB Dana Arif to pick up Asnita bond, why? See diagram
Attached Image
AMB Dana Arif is consistently below both EI bond and Asnita bond

In the same chart, I've another suggestion for you
Since buying AH select bond is not an option on FSM, you can consider switching the RHB ATR to RHB Asian Income fund. Why? ATR has higher volatility despite being a pure bond fund while Asian Income fund is a balanced fund with more consistent performance. But, will attract sales charge, this switch

Now, developed markets, do you really need 3 funds?
Attached Image

All 3 move in very similar directions lor. Personally I used to have RHB GEYF and didn't like it, alway lagged the other players. So if I'm you I would switch out of the Global Fortune Fund. But into what... I'm not sure if I want such a high developed markets exposure, GTF have not done well since beginning of the year

Lastly, I too started a portfolio in Oct 2015. It's doing ok, ROI 5.x% and I'm very glad that I took the RSP route instead of lumpsum. Otherwise it may still be in the red
*
Hello to you too. I am also glad to meet another fairer sex here. icon_rolleyes.gif Thanks for your valuable input. It clears alot of clouds for me. thumbup.gif

It is about time for me to rebalance my portfolio and perhaps do a bit of trimming for it to be more effective for my goals. Need to sharpen the arrow head for a truer aim. I just need to get my head off the clouds and master this diversification trick and balancing of funds.

I think I am going for Asnita and dropping AMB Dana Arif for it. I picked AMB Dana Arif over Asnita last time because I was still so fresh in UT and was afraid to lump sum into Asnita. That bond needs 1K to buy in. But now after seeing how Asnita performed and looking at its sharpe ratio I am regretting my initial decision. My portfolio would have seen so much better gains should that not be the case. Asian Income Funds does look appealing especially during times of so much uncertainties. So far my ATR has been quite a laggard. Only currently seeing gains from it. It really isn't a good fixed income to cushion falls especially in current market situation. Then again, perhaps it was recommended to me as part of my portfolio since I am looking at 7 years horizon. I will need to go study Asian Income Funds a bit further to see if it fits my aim.

RHB GFF was recommended by FSM CIS when I first built my portfolio. It was later that I added CIMB Global Titans thinking that it would give me exposure to developed markets for diversification. And then I added TA EEF as I thought I needed to substitute for AmSchroder after dropping it since this TA EEF was an alternate fund to AmSchroder that the FSM CIS has recommended in that portfolio he built for me. I didn't know all 3 are really under the Developed Markets category and moving pretty much in the same direction with each other. doh.gif Perhaps maintaining TA EEF and dropping RHB GFF might be more effective?

You ROI is good. May I know what funds you have in your portfolio? Just curious since we both started in Oct last year.


This post has been edited by yuatyi: Sep 10 2016, 01:30 AM
dasecret
post Sep 10 2016, 01:39 AM

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QUOTE(yuatyi @ Sep 10 2016, 01:28 AM)

You ROI is good. May I know what funds you have in your portfolio? Just curious since we both started in Oct last year.
*
Attached Image

This is applying what I learned after 2 years of DIY investing on a portfolio I manage on behalf, but eventually also itchy finger and added smart balanced fund when it fell quite a bit last month blush.gif

60EQ:40FI .... ish
Actually my RHB ATR IRR is 6.94%, not that bad really. Main laggard is GTF, just broke even
guy3288
post Sep 10 2016, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Sep 10 2016, 12:20 AM)
Didn't quite understand the "H" and "C"... but anyway sounds like I just gotta kwai kwai pay SC to buy select bond lor.... even with SC the IRR is a respectable 8+%, still worth it la

*
Ya, what is that "H" and "C" la, share la..



QUOTE(dasecret @ Sep 10 2016, 12:20 AM)


Lastly, I too started a portfolio in Oct 2015. It's doing ok, ROI 5.x% and I'm very glad that I took the RSP route instead of lumpsum. Otherwise it may still be in the red
*
i started 29/10/13 lump sum 100k. then i sell when i see profit up, and buy when i see it down. Guess what so far i have sold off RM166k. My IRR bolehtahan jugak at 7.68%, would have been higher if not for that mistake commode from Am, losing money from D1, today still -RM6160!

no so called RSP etc. would u say this is lucky?
yuatyi
post Sep 10 2016, 01:48 AM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Sep 10 2016, 01:39 AM)
Attached Image

This is applying what I learned after 2 years of DIY investing on a portfolio I manage on behalf, but eventually also itchy finger and added smart balanced fund when it fell quite a bit last month  blush.gif

60EQ:40FI .... ish
Actually my RHB ATR IRR is 6.94%, not that bad really. Main laggard is GTF, just broke even
*
Thanks for sharing your portfolio. I am beginning to see the appeal and benefit of having a smaller portfolio rather than having to maintain and look after too many funds. Less funds makes rebalancing and also DCA much easier to manage and not so easy to tip original planned % too much whenever you do a VA. hmm.gif

I am also currently trying to maintain a 60EQ:40FI environment for my portfolio at least until things goes smoother sailing. sweat.gif

dasecret
post Sep 10 2016, 01:50 AM

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QUOTE(guy3288 @ Sep 10 2016, 01:41 AM)

i started 29/10/13 lump sum 100k. then i sell when i see profit up, and buy when i see it down. Guess what so far i have sold off RM166k. My IRR bolehtahan jugak at 7.68%, would have been higher if not  for that mistake commode from Am, losing money from D1, today still -RM6160!

no  so called RSP etc. would u say this is lucky?
*
Hats off to you lor... Made good money. I'm by the book and no where close

Anyway, I think something wrong with your RHB GEYF ROI. The fund has not made so well in the past 3 years and your IRR and ROI also don't correspond
Sorry.... bean counter punya obsession

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