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 Fundsupermart.com v15, 基金超市第十五章 - Rise the Dragon

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idyllrain
post Oct 4 2016, 09:33 PM

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This post has been edited by idyllrain: Oct 5 2016, 03:54 PM
Avangelice
post Oct 4 2016, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(kimyee73 @ Oct 4 2016, 09:09 PM)
Below is my Main portfolio September performance based on 30/9/16 NAV.

Jul Aug Sep
Overall IRR 12.21% 10.56% 10.65%
Top 3 Funds % of Port
AmPrecious Metal 8.2% IRR 75.7% 59.24% 56.52%
EI Small Caps 4.5% IRR 19.14% 15.92% 16.83%
CIMB Greater China 3.0% IRR 9.54% 13.09% 16.04%
Bottom 3 Eq Funds % Port
RHB Smart Treasure 2.5% ROI -1.16% -13.98% -11.14%
AMB Ethical 4.6% IRR -3.56% -2.03% 0.0%
Manulife REIT 4.0% ROI NA NA 0.4%
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why don't you dump smart treasure. I think pieces88 reported of negative returns too.
voyage23
post Oct 4 2016, 09:37 PM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Oct 4 2016, 05:50 PM)
Let me guess, public mutual agents? PM bond funds returns lose to FD one... how to sell

Besides, bond fund close to zero commission

Once on cari chinese forum an agent tell me off, say it's a disservice to the clients to sell them bond fund because of the lacklustre returns. Ahem, the problem is why the bond fund return so little right? Not because your bond fund sucks so you ask client to take more risk than they are supposed/ready to
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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 4 2016, 08:59 PM)
Possible answer(s):

1) You are a young person, so they thought perhaps bond fund is too conservative for you.

2) Industry compensation structure. UTC are "penalized" for promoting bond fund by being paid half the commission for regular equity fund.

3) The UTC knows SH1T about asset allocation or how to construct a proper portfolio and are trained by their upline to be pure salesman only.

Xuzen
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Yeah they are from a family of people doing PM/Manulife. Sometimes I am confused where are they from because they can be seen in both companies' events sweat.gif It's true that I am young at only 26 years old but I think the likely reason they told me that is lower commission and they don't know about asset allocation.

Thanks guys!
kimyee73
post Oct 4 2016, 09:42 PM

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QUOTE(Avangelice @ Oct 4 2016, 09:35 PM)
why don't you dump smart treasure. I think pieces88 reported of negative returns too.
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I just bought it less than a year and it dropped in Aug due to U-Li Corp. I would give it more time to recover.
kimyee73
post Oct 4 2016, 10:01 PM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 4 2016, 03:12 PM)
Lai Lai, come come and share share....

What indicator?

Sure win wan boh?

[stuff deleted]

Xuzen
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I won't say long as this subject seems to be a taboo here but momentum indicators used for stock trading such as stochastic, RSI etc.

AIYH
post Oct 4 2016, 11:57 PM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 4 2016, 09:07 PM)
Friend,

Cannot simply say like this. If you UTC, FIMM or SC hear this, you lesen kena tarik balik wan ar! Bond =/= FD.

Xuzen
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Haha, just alternative, not a replacement biggrin.gif

Sorry if there is any misunderstanding tongue.gif
guy3288
post Oct 5 2016, 12:31 AM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 4 2016, 10:54 AM)
Guy3288 made an assertion..............., Then he continues," He agrees that timing the market is impractical as in his post #956 on page 48. "
Xuzen
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I am disappointed by the imprecise way you quote me.

QUOTE(guy3288 @ Post #956 Oct 3 2016, 03:06 PM)
One would be silly to say he knows when is the best time to buy and when is the best time to sell.
No body knows, but that does not mean in that case, you buy it  higher or you buy it cheaper, it makes no difference, it doesn't matter, so just buy la. <----this is meant to be sarcastic
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I dont see how the above can mean to say it is impractical to time the market.

How can i say timing the market is impractical if I support timing the market?

Isn't trying to buy low = timing the market?

Or must it only be buying the LOWEST then only considered
timing the market, yes that is impractical then.


guy3288
post Oct 5 2016, 01:13 AM

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QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 4 2016, 10:54 AM)
Also If I were to follow your logic that you want to maximize the units per RM transacted (get more units per buy), then it is most likely you would want to buy into a risky asset that is forever on a downtrend. Sounds funny to me leh!

Your past post seems full of irony.
Xuzen
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I thought you were one of the few who understood what i was trying to say when i read the ultimate reply from you,
thought we can move on..but now you turn back the clock again......

There is no irony in the following post

QUOTE(guy3288 @ Oct 3 2016, 05:33 PM)
more example here,
QUOTE(Kaka23 @ Sep 12 2016, 12:39 PM)

Let it drop till end of this month, then time to nimble some...  rclxms.gif
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QUOTE(MUM @ Sep 12 2016, 12:42 PM)
should it be,.sell all now and then end of the month...time to nimble some?  biggrin.gif  brows.gif
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the bottom line in discussion there is NAV price to buy and more units to get
for the same amount of money right?
*
Do you not agree they are waiting to buy at lower NAV?

If you can agree "Buy low NAV is better", I am sure you understand it is to make money or push up your IRR.
So if "getting more units per RM" there" is meant to make money and increase your IRR, what is the irony?
To understand it otherwise means you have misunderstood me.

lower NAV by itself is automatically translated into more units for the same amount of money paid.

I thought i have made my self clear with the KGF example..

QUOTE(guy3288 @ Oct 3 2016, 03:06 PM)
What I am saying all this while is: if  you buy at a higher price (eg KGF at RM1.0175 last week), you are losing out to someone who bought it cheaper at RM0.9855 last month. He got more units than you for the SAME amount of money invested.

Tell me you agree or not it DOES NOT matter if pay RM10,000 for KGF at RM1.0175 and get only 9828 units whereas another who paid same amount at RM0.9855 got 10147 units?

Who cares if KGF holds stocks XYZ at the time when you buy it at RM1.0175, and KGF holds stocks ABC at the time I buy it at RM0.9855??

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It would be ridiculous to say, out of the hundreds over UTs there, you go pick that one with lowest NAV and buy it.

What i have been saying all this while is: Once you have decided the UT can be a "winner", you keep an eye on it,see who is buying it at what price, who has topped up further at what price ,observe its NAV fluctuations then you buy la.
You buy low you have a head start compared to those who buy higher, that's all.

And who says this way cannot be done if you want to have more than 1 UT fund in your portfolio.

You just need to do the same for each and every UT fund you target to buy.







guy3288
post Oct 5 2016, 01:30 AM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Oct 4 2016, 07:18 PM)
Universal truth like buy cheap, buy at basement price bargains also need to have mathematical proof to show advantage over friend? So high class one the discussions..
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You think only you alone surprised meh? me too la!

QUOTE(guy3288 @ Oct 3 2016, 03:06 PM)
Anyone who is reasonable enough should know there is hardly any need for argument on a simple statement that says if you buy cheaper you win over another who buys it at higher price.

common sense, yet it seems that is not so common to many in here...sigh.
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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Oct 4 2016, 07:18 PM)
I top-up 2 weeks ago, so damn regret la... nav price drop 1% last Friday, should have waited till Friday.
If it drop again next 2-3 weeks another 8-9%, more regret la...  cry.gif

But ask me in 10 years time, what's the returns, hopefully I can boast "don't know la, maybe 110% or just above 120%... for sure more than 100."

In 10 years time, I would also forgot what's the NAV price I bought, and what's the 'rugi' I didn't buy at cheaper price. No luck... already buy, then price drop... buy somemore, price drop again.

Always no luck, so keep on buying...
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After buy what is there to regret, lose lose la.
I lost RM6+k in AmCommodities also no cry .How much you lost?


But i thought you are a veteran, surely got at least few years IRR to show already ,no need wait 10 years .
unless you are waiting for your not so nice IRR to "even" out something like that of yklooi's?


No la, if no luck no point keep buying blindly, you only go deeper in red and lose more.
i kena before.

TakoC
post Oct 5 2016, 07:13 AM

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QUOTE(kimyee73 @ Oct 4 2016, 09:09 PM)
Below is my Main portfolio September performance based on 30/9/16 NAV.

Jul Aug Sep
Overall IRR 12.21% 10.56% 10.65%
Top 3 Funds % of Port
AmPrecious Metal 8.2% IRR 75.7% 59.24% 56.52%
EI Small Caps 4.5% IRR 19.14% 15.92% 16.83%
CIMB Greater China 3.0% IRR 9.54% 13.09% 16.04%
Bottom 3 Eq Funds % Port
RHB Smart Treasure 2.5% ROI -1.16% -13.98% -11.14%
AMB Ethical 4.6% IRR -3.56% -2.03% 0.0%
Manulife REIT 4.0% ROI NA NA 0.4%
*
IRR boosted by precious metal lol

This post has been edited by TakoC: Oct 5 2016, 07:13 AM
Avangelice
post Oct 5 2016, 08:50 AM

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aaaannnnnnnnddd Manulife India just rebounded. lol.

up 1.20 from the 2.34 sudden down trend. best top up I ever spent. (*tongue in cheek comment*)


think I'll top up another time this afternoon

This post has been edited by Avangelice: Oct 5 2016, 09:06 AM
river.sand
post Oct 5 2016, 09:14 AM

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QUOTE(voyage23 @ Oct 4 2016, 05:34 PM)
New investor here. I have Libra Asnita Bond in my portfolio, I am just wondering why whenever I talk to my UT agents friends and when I mentioned about my bond fund, they would say "no need to top up for bond wan la". But it was always touch n go conversation so didn't get to ask them. Why is that so?

I do regular DCA into my 4 other equity funds and this libra asnita fund.
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For a start, do you have EPF?
If you do, then bond fund in your portfolio is probably not essential. EPF has similar returns and also has low volatility.
Yes, I know Pinky will talk about EPF 'smoothing up' returns. In any case, substantial portion of EPF investment is in fixed income.

QUOTE
A total of 51% of the funds managed by the EPF are placed with fixed-income.

http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...hackle-the-epf/

Secondly, how old are you and what are your investment objectives?
If you are 28, and you invest for retirement, then take higher risk.
The longer your investment horizon, the less relevant Std-Dev becomes.

Bond funds have been giving returns which match those of equity funds lately. This is because investors dump stocks and pour money in bonds, thereby pushing up the bond prices. But don't expect bond returns to stay high forever.

This post has been edited by river.sand: Oct 5 2016, 01:57 PM
Avangelice
post Oct 5 2016, 09:42 AM

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QUOTE(river.sand @ Oct 5 2016, 09:14 AM)
For a start, do you have EPF?
If you do, then bond fund in your portfolio is probably not essential. EPF has similar returns and also has low volatility.
Yes, I know Pinky will talk about EPF 'smoothing up' returns. In any case, substantial portion of EPF investment is in fixed income.
http://www.thestar.com.my/business/busines...hackle-the-epf/

Secondly, how old are you and what are your investment objectives?
If you are 28, and you invest for retirement, then take higher risk.
The longer your investment horizon, the less relevant Std-Dev becomes.

Bond funds have been giving returns which match those of equity funds lately. This is because investors dump stocks and pour money in bonds, thereby pushing up the bond prices. But don't expect bond yields to stay high forever.
*
but you will not see the profit and returns from EPF until you reach 55 years of age *cough*may be subject to change* if that is so I dont want to wait till I am 55 to enjoy the fruits of my labour or all those profits be spent on medical fees.

I would suggest switching and locking down profits from equities to those funds. I for one ignore that I have EPF when investing except to beat it's dividend.
dasecret
post Oct 5 2016, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(j.passing.by @ Oct 4 2016, 07:18 PM)
Wah, like this also called 'heated debate'? Sing song, tok cok also can say heated debate meh?

Universal truth like buy cheap, buy at basement price bargains also need to have mathematical proof to show advantage over friend? So high class one the discussions... 3 days long weekend no go holiday or jam the malls?  laugh.gif

I top-up 2 weeks ago, so damn regret la... nav price drop 1% last Friday, should have waited till Friday.
If it drop again next 2-3 weeks another 8-9%, more regret la...  cry.gif

But ask me in 10 years time, what's the returns, hopefully I can boast "don't know la, maybe 110% or just above 120%... for sure more than 100."

In 10 years time, I would also forgot what's the NAV price I bought, and what's the 'rugi' I didn't buy at cheaper price. No luck... already buy, then price drop... buy somemore, price drop again.

Always no luck, so keep on buying...

Wait, dont' say no luck...  don't talk like newbie... be more 'veteran' - "I'm using DCA method".

biggrin.gif

*
thumbsup.gif This is the most humorous post I've seen coming from you.... made my day thumbup.gif

QUOTE(xuzen @ Oct 4 2016, 09:16 PM)
Better than your Public Mutual Thread leh.... there only you kaki kong, kaki song!

Come here more often friend, here more tok kok, sing song wan! thumbsup.gif

Xuzen
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These days he post more over here than on his own thread. That thread only to troubleshoot for some random forumers only
SUSPink Spider
post Oct 5 2016, 10:44 AM

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In the mood for charity today...

2. The NAV price of the fund that I'm interested in is quite high now, should I stay away? Investment gurus always say "buy low, sell high"...
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

FSM Idea Of The Week: Unit Split and High Fund Price Misconceptions [24 October 2014]
QUOTE
Investors should not judge if a unit trust is cheap or expensive based on its unit trust price or NAV. Instead, they should focus on the valuations (PE ratios) of the underlying equity markets that the unit trust invests in.

Ref: Post #1

People that cannot get this...are Lembu. I repeat my "insult". sleep.gif

This is a statement as simple as 1+1=2. If a pupil keep saying that 1+1=3, his/her teacher can't call that pupil lembu? yawn.gif

This post has been edited by Pink Spider: Oct 5 2016, 10:54 AM
T231H
post Oct 5 2016, 11:09 AM

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found this little "Disclaimer" from an article from FSM HK...
".....investors should not override the importance of the historical mean of P/E when it comes to valuing a company’s stock price. Despite the strong fundamentals and impressive growth potential, the stock price would be dragged down by the bearish sentiment in the market. Therefore, investors should not base their investment decision merely on the level of P/E. "...........

Capture The Optimal Entry Of Investment Through A Proper Use Of P/E
September 30, 2016. Author : Fundsupermart.com
http://www.fundsupermart.com.hk/hk/main/re...se-of-P-E-12540
spiderman17
post Oct 5 2016, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(river.sand @ Oct 5 2016, 09:14 AM)
Bond funds have been giving returns which match those of equity funds lately. This is because investors dump stocks and pour money in bonds, thereby pushing up the bond prices. But don't expect bond yields to stay high forever.
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hmm.gif
Do you mean low yield instead? isn't yield inverse of price?

kl_123
post Oct 5 2016, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(Avangelice @ Oct 5 2016, 08:50 AM)
aaaannnnnnnnddd Manulife India just rebounded. lol.

up 1.20 from the 2.34 sudden down trend. best top up I ever spent. (*tongue in cheek comment*)
think I'll top up another time this afternoon
*
Already up 3.6% from the drop... best top up at 29/9... rclxms.gif

FSM recommend Greater China this month..seem like high can go higher... icon_idea.gif

https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...ober-2016--7514
river.sand
post Oct 5 2016, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(spiderman17 @ Oct 5 2016, 11:49 AM)
hmm.gif
Do you mean low yield instead? isn't yield inverse of price?
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Yes, I should say returns, which include both price appreciation and interest payments.
T231H
post Oct 5 2016, 02:10 PM

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Can you time the market?
When the market has moved to high levels, predicting its future direction is tricky. Investors are often tempted to time the market - whether it will have further upside or will it consolidate. However, is this the best strategy?
Author : IFAST Research Team

Avoiding the “mines” or “potholes” obviously increased returns

Avoiding the ten worst months increased the annualised return from 5.1% to 8.3%, while avoiding the ten worst days increased the annualised return to 6.6%. This is all well and good for an investor, but begs the question: how does an investor manage to avoid these “potholes” in their investment journey?
https://www.fundsupermart.com.my/main/resea...l?articleNo=431

"....it is practically impossible to time the market on a monthly basis with perfect accuracy over such a long period of time. Needless to say, timing the market with perfect precision on a daily basis over eighty-two years is perhaps an art best reserved for the gods".

this is just an example of 1 index/study.....may not be representative of all....for some have balls/indicators biggrin.gif






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