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English Clubs Liverpool LYN Kop Talk - BELIEVE V 5 2016/2017, CP 2 : 4 LFC #YNWA

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Duke Red
post Aug 16 2016, 01:12 PM

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Ending my brief hiatus to sum up my thoughts on the game vs Arsenal.

Couldn't have asked for a better results on opening day despite Moreno's nightmare first half.

We did ship 3 goals but whilst the first was due to Moreno's lack of positioning, the second was down to the brilliant of the Ox. We should have done better with the third though. Still, I felt the new pairing of Lovren and Klavan was pretty solid. The latter in particular impressed me. He made intelligent decisions on the ball, clearing it or bringing it up the pitch defending on circumstances. Let's not forget he was signed as backup and at just $ 4 million pounds, looks to be a bargain if preseason is anything to go by. If he keeps up this from, he's an upgrade from Skrtel and Toure.

I have a soft spot for Lallana and he reminds me a little of Luis Garcia or even Harry Kewell, brilliant when on song, and rubbish when he isn't. Whilst opinions on his ability are divided, there's no questioning his effort. He covers a lot of ground during every match and he shows leadership qualities as evident against Arsenal when we has captured on camera rallying the team as we went behind. I think he has good movement and is capable of making some intelligent passes, they are just too far and few in between. May not be good enough to be regular starter but he's certainly a useful squad player and he doesn't demand first team football week in, week out.

Whilst Coutino deservedly received the plaudits, it was Mane who impressed me the most. Quick, composed and a bundle of energy. He was arguably our best player during preseason and is on his way to justifying his price tag.

Question is, with the number of midfielders we have in the squad, where does Jordan Henderson fit into all this? As club captain, it's conceivable to believe that he will start most games when fit but we also have Wjynaldum, Can and Grujic on our books and let's not forget Milner and Lallana can play in the middle as well.
Duke Red
post Aug 18 2016, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(yeelong @ Aug 16 2016, 01:58 PM)
Welcome back briefly boss!! rclxms.gif

agree on your assessment and just to add on Klavan. He was Klopp's summer transfer plan to replace both Lovren and Shako with matip. Matip was brought in first becoz he is on Bosman. Klavan's plan scratched temporary when Klopp saw Lovren and Sahko came to become the CB that he likes. When Sahko and Matip down with injuries, Klavan's plan came back on life and he is with us now. We are very fortunate that our 4 current CBs are and will be top in BPL. My CB in order would be Lovren(experience in BPL), Matip, Klavan and Shako will be on Toure's role this season.
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Eh not briefly la. I've got more time now so I'll pop by more often smile.gif

I almost forgot we signed Matip given how often Klavan has started. I haven't seen the former play but from what I've read, he's pretty good on the ball and I don't think we've had a centreback capable of creating from back since Agger. Skrtel looked clumsy in possession and Sakho looks like he has to put in an insurmountable amount of effort to dribble the ball 5 yards. We have diversity at the back and like you've just said, we are fortunate to have 4 decent CBs, not that anyone would have put Lovren in that category after his first season smile.gif
Duke Red
post Aug 18 2016, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(lp16 @ Aug 16 2016, 02:30 PM)
I suspect Hendo's still not 100%. Grujic is still raw, maybe Klopp will play him against lesser teams/Cup games with other fringe players like Markovic.

Moreno's mistake will now be magnified, more so if it resulted in a goal. His tackles are rash but if (big IF) he timed it properly, this boy can really make a tackle. Sterling can vouch for that. He has pace but needs more awareness and footballing brain.
Hendo has had a roller coaster ride since signing for us. He was almost sold to Fulham for Dempsey and a bag of peanuts, but bounced back in the season we finished 2nd where he was deemed undroppable. I can't see him playing in an advanced role as he did for Rodgers though, with the attacking talents we have at our disposal. If anything I reckon he'll play deep now that Allen has left and Lucas is on the verge of leaving as he wants first team football. Will likely share playing time with Can.

Moreno needs a radar implanted into his nut. He's so intent on going forward, he has no idea what's happening behind him. I reckon he impressed most when we played 5 at the back with him in the wingback position, reducing our dependency on him to defend because he is good when he's going forward and he has a sweet left foot. I like that he is a tenacious tackler (when he's actually bothered to do a bit of defending) but this also means that he can be a little reckless. How many penalties has he given away ? 2? 3? The fact that Milner is actually being considered for the job is testament to how bad his defending is. I mean they may as well have given his jersey to the tea lady, with all due respect to Millie.

QUOTE(normeck @ Aug 17 2016, 05:39 PM)
Fernando Torres Hits Out at 'Same Old' Liverpool as He Sets Record Straight Over Anfield Departure

http://www.90min.com/posts/3629878-fernand...field-departure

“They wanted to bring in young players, to build something new. I was thinking to myself, this takes time to work. It takes two, three, four, maybe even 10 years. I didn’t have that time. I was 27 years old. I did not have time to wait. I wanted to win. Here we are five years later and they are still trying to build – around the same position in the league as when I left.”
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You know what? I'm finally over Torres leaving and reading this piece has got me to empathise with his predicament. Let's face it, Liverpool fans are a sentimental lot and we expect every player that signs to love the club and be loyal. However most of these foreign lads have boyhood clubs that they left reluctantly in pursuit of greatness. Moreno left the pitch in tears as he played his last game for Sevilla. Daniel Agger chose to return to Brondy, incurring a substantial pay cut instead of joining pursuing clubs like Barcelona amongst others. In regards to Torres, he pledged to his fans that he would return one day to Atletico after he had achieved success. Little did he know what a force they would turn out to be smile.gif However my point is that Torres tore himself away from the club he loved for silverware and he had no time to wait for us to rebuild. The same can be said of any player from abroad.

Duke Red
post Aug 18 2016, 10:03 AM

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Has anyone noticed how often Klopp's glasses fall off his face? He lost them completely against Norwich last season when Benteke obliterated them, and he almost lost them twice against Arsenal by virtue of hugging various players. I think his hugging has to stop smile.gif

This post has been edited by Duke Red: Aug 18 2016, 10:03 AM
Duke Red
post Aug 18 2016, 03:41 PM

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QUOTE(Everdying @ Aug 18 2016, 10:28 AM)
more time? got bored of hunting pokemons? tongue.gif
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That's on weekends man smile.gif

QUOTE(lcy851031 @ Aug 18 2016, 10:38 AM)
Because those player haven't hugged by klopp in this way.  brows.gif


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I'm putting this on my bucket list - "a hug from Jurgen Klopp". Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be scoring a goal for Liverpool anytime soon.
Duke Red
post Aug 18 2016, 03:52 PM

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Rumours are suggesting that Klopp is looking into signing Joe Hart as is Everton. Seems Pep isn't convinced and wants to replace him with Bravo. Personally, I think Hart is a step up from Mignolet despite being inconsistent himself but with Karius on our books, I see no reason to sign another keeper, especially one that will certainly cost north of $20 million pounds
Duke Red
post Aug 22 2016, 09:51 AM

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Henderson had a bad day at the office as did the other lads but his errors are magnified because unlike the rest, Henderson actually has to earn his way back into the team. I thought that with the new additions, Henderson would have the opportunity to establish himself in front of the back four and share playing time with Can, but he didn't do so well did he?

Incidentally, I don't think he's played in every game just because he's captain. He was in decent form before he got injured and he isn't an automatic starter. Rodgers gave him the armband, not Klopp so I reckon "the normal one" will have no qualms dropping him based on last weekend's form.
Duke Red
post Aug 23 2016, 09:57 AM

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The statistics on possession flatter us and its because Burnley let us have the ball and were content to hold on to their early lead.

Like some of you, I don't think Klopp is above criticism but I do think that like any other manager, we cannot turn on them until they've had ample time to build. Let's face it, we are in reality a midtable club and no longer amongst the greats. Not achievement wise but rather, financial wise. We simply don't have the resources to match the top clubs and as big a name as Klopp is, the inability to offer any top player European football is a big drawback. It likely explains why we never signed a leftback. Who would you have signed? Hector? Coentrao? Both are fully fledged internationals who will be playing in the Champions League. Why would they leave for us? Fact is we are looking at signing the next whoever instead of the current whoever.

Back to our current state of affairs.

Klopp didn't sign anyone to compete with Moreno and I'm rather surprised that we let Flanagan go out on loan despite cover in that area of the field. To add, we also sold Brad Smith to Bournemouth. I mean Milner may be able to play there but he's not going to be happy being a permanent fixture in that position. It makes me believe that Klopp is going Moreno one last opportunity and if he fails to improve, he'll be gone by December.

His decision not to have signed a CDM despite selling Allen is another area of concern but having said that, Wee Joe was never a defensive mid. Can is able to fill in but he has an adventurous streak in him and likes getting forward. Henderson was to me, the most viable option given that Lucas is on the verge of leaving. He had a terrible game against Burnley but that position is relatively new to him and maybe he just needs some time to settle in. Can't fault him if he's being played out of position as Kenny did with him when he was fielded on the right flank. That all being said, our best option may just be Kevin Stewart. He's not flashy but he has the discipline to stay in position and he keeps his game simple meaning he makes few mistakes.

Now there's talk of us sending Sakho on loan which I find surprising. I thought that he'd be third choice behind Matip and Lovren. Is this a sign that his future at the club is over? After the doping charge, he's been sent back from the US tour and now he's being loaned out. Perhaps Klopp doesn't think he's as funny as we think he is?
Duke Red
post Sep 21 2016, 08:23 AM

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A very composed display in the end. The fact that Klopp made 7 changes to the squad and we still hit 3 past Derby shows we have some depth in the squad. Coutinho was the standout performer for me. No one else really out in an all-star performance but the squad played well as a whole which is a positive given that they've hardly had time together on the pitch.

Karius didn't have much to do but his distribution from the back was excellent and he is showing a tendency to play like a sweeper-keeper much like Pepe. Matip looks like more of a bargain after each game, especially since he was signed for free.
Duke Red
post Sep 21 2016, 10:03 AM

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Not to jinx it but Klopp seems to have gotten it right. When I looked at the fixture list during pre-season I thought we'd be screwed but aside from the Burnley game, we've been brilliant. Klopp was quoted as saying that we were going to go to the big sides and give them hell and it looks like he's keeping to his word. This may sound funny, but the real acid test will be Hull this weekend. We can go toe-to-toe against sides that play against us to get 3 points, but how will our high pressing game work against teams that defend in banks of four and look to hit us on the counter attack ?

Not sure if anyone has watched this, if you haven't it's worth a few minutes of your time.


Duke Red
post Sep 22 2016, 09:33 AM

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We're doing well going forward but we are still conceding and although one could argue that is because we're playing a high line, the majority of the goals we've conceded have been when we have had bodies back in defense. Henderson is currently anchoring the midfield but when you're often the last man, you need to be a good defender. Alonso could play deep because Rafa didn't encourage his centrebacks to be a adventurous. Henderson is a stop gap solution at the moment and I'm hoping that either Kevin Stewart steps up or we sign someone in the mould of Kante in the next transfer window.
Duke Red
post Sep 22 2016, 09:45 AM

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So who should be or no. 1? We already know that Migs is a poor distributor and a disaster in the air. His inability to deal with aerial threats is reminiscent of David James.

Karius is a product of Germany's long production line of goalkeepers and is unlikely to be called up anytime soon given that they have the line of Ter Stegen, Weidenfeller, Zieler, Leno et al waiting for Neuer to hang up his gloves. How does Karius measure up against them? From the games I watched during preseason, his one glaring fault is his concentration. He had a tendency to take his eyes off the ball.

For now I'd still go with Migs against the big sides but I'd put for Karius in games against the likes of Hull this weekend.
Duke Red
post Sep 22 2016, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 22 2016, 09:44 AM)
This article is interesting:
http://www.thisisanfield.com/2016/09/derby...league-cup-win/

More so this statement:
"Bent continued to explain that, while Derby manager Nigel Pearson had highlighted Liverpool’s left defensive flank as a weakness, with Alberto Moreno making only his second start of the season, they were unable to exploit this.

“If you can point out any weakness in Liverpool’s back four, a lot of people say it is the left side,” he added"

One day that left side is gonna be really exploited. But now I'm glad Milner actually is pretty competent there with Hendo backing him up.
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Trying to figure out not just why we didn't sign a leftback but why having not bought one, Klopp decided to sell Brad Smith? Was it his intention all along to play Milner there or could it be that he rates Joe Gomes?
Duke Red
post Sep 22 2016, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(melt @ Sep 22 2016, 10:07 AM)
we did sign ben chilwell from Leicester during the transfer window.
As for Henderson spot do you think Dahoud is the right man to do the job?
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Mana ada bro? Chilwell just signed a new contract with Leicester.

Never seen Dahoud play but I reckon it was Klopp's intention for Can to play in that role. Lucas was on the verge of leaving but when Can got crocked, Klopp blocked any move for Lucas. Possible also that Klopp had always wanted him to stay. The details are a little vague to me.
Duke Red
post Sep 22 2016, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(reehdus @ Sep 22 2016, 10:06 AM)
I think he intended to buy a LB. I don't buy the crap that he felt Moreno was good enough or Milner could be retrained. I feel the right LB was not available for the right price. For all everyone has said about Hector, it could be possible Klopp doesn't feel he'd fit in. After all, Klopp did say he won't buy players for the sake of buying, they must have an ethic and want to play for him. I realize Hector (or his agent) pretty much said come and get me, but maybe he wasn't a fit for Klopp.
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Likely. Hector isn't known for his attacking abilities and Klopp favors defenders with attacking instincts. Not being in Europe is also a significant deterrent to any top player. Better to take a chance on Gomez than signing another Konchesky out of desperation.
Duke Red
post Sep 22 2016, 10:22 AM

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QUOTE(Everdying @ Sep 22 2016, 10:14 AM)
henderson's work-rate lets him play that position...so cant argue much there.
and now klopp seems to hopefully have found a balance with hendo and gigi working together...both having played DM before for club and cuntry...both taking turns offensively and defensively...
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On the topic of workrate, how much has Lallana improved in that department? At one point in his Liverpool career, he didn't play beyond 70 minutes and now he's covering more ground than anyone. He has had a stop go start to his career here and once reminded me of Luis Garcia in that they would pop up with a moment of brilliance and then disappear but he's playing with a lot more consistency now
Duke Red
post Sep 27 2016, 10:11 AM

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More insight into Klopp's brand of football here. You'll get a sense of how flexible his tactics are. Basically anyone can fill any position when we are pressing and attacking and he explains how they get into those positions. Good insight.


Duke Red
post Sep 27 2016, 10:13 AM

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The much awaited TIA documentary is out. After 18 months of construction, the new stand was made ready at the start of the season which prompted this 3 part piece. Watch how Anfield was born and how it transformed itself from being one of the best ground in the country to what Bill Shankly once called, "the biggest toilet in Liverpool", to the majestic stadium that it is now.

Enjoy folks.







This post has been edited by Duke Red: Sep 27 2016, 10:51 AM
Duke Red
post Sep 27 2016, 11:14 AM

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Watch also, Klopp's journey to the Kop to find out more about his meteoric rise to becoming one of Europe's most revered managers.


Duke Red
post Sep 27 2016, 03:23 PM

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Well I'm certain the general sentiment is that Klopp will eventually deliver the holy grail and will by doing so, enter Liverpool folklore, so ya, do it. Whatever happens at the end of his tenure here, I think we can all agree that his appointment as manager is accepted by all Liverpool fans, unlike recent appointments before him.

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