Hi forumers,

I wonder how and who categorize a car model into its segment; B, C, D, Sedan, SUV, Compact, etc.

For example why the HRV and ASX are categorized as Crossover (which bear cheaper road tax) but the Subaru XV as an SUV (higher road tax) when these cars seem to have similar design and built.

Thanks.

Because road tax is based on engine size instead of car segment.

n years ago yes

bcuz road tax based on engine size.... segments just for show.... you can buy a full spec city and say its a basic C-segment too... since the spec and the size quite close... just the engine lower cc... but kia cerato and elantra with 1.6 also consider C-segments... there you go...

dei..... here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Car_classifications

City now the same CC as Civic 1.5T

It's just a feeling IMHO, based on the car, equipment level, size, car width, and car it is based on.

i.e. while the City may be pretty big for a B segment car, it is based on the Jazz. But with a boot. Car width is a bit of a giveaway, as that hardly changes.

For example the Golf 7 (excluding mirrors) is 1,80 wide. The City is 1,69 wide.

Also it's IMHO based on history... the name plays a role too. i.e. City was always a B segment sedan or hatchback. The Golf has always been a C segment car, even though the first generation would, in terms of size, be more like A or B segment.

Then there is the price, expected quality levels (well, how it feels inside)... the higher the segment, the posher the car.

There are no hard rules which car belongs to which segment, for example you could consider the Skoda Octavia as a big C segment car, or a small D segment car. IMHO I'd go with C segment, as it was always based on the Golf (in times of the MQB platform and similar ones from other brands this got muddled up too...), and by association thus it also is C segment. Plus the price is closer to C segment.

Proton poses in interesting problem. IMHO Preve and Suprima are C segment, and so were Persona and Gen-2 IMHO. Others may say they are B segment, but for their time they were IMHO too big for that. In terms of price they'd all be B segment though. But the new Persona, being based on the Iriz, may fall into the B segment.

Oh, and... who says the Subaru XV isn't a crossover? IMHO it absolutely is. SUVs are a cross between proper offroaders and normal road cars, but heavily leaning on the offroader side. Crossover are the same, but leaning towards road cars. As such it absolutely should be in that category.

Perfect Answer

(beat me to it )

I might also add that, based on PERCEPTION of others, relative to other model in the same brand as well.

For example, BMW 3 series are often perceived as D-segment, same as Honda Accord or Camry. But in fact it's German C-segment counterpart. 5 series will be D-segment comparable to Camry or Accord. And finally there is 7 series which is Large size sedan (ie. Toyota Avalon, Hyundai genesis etc)

Haha. I am one of those considering the 3 series to be a D segment car. Premium D segment... they tend to be a bit smaller than regular D segment cars.

The 1 series sits below that, so it is C segment. In terms of size it makes sense. The 1 series, or A3 and A class for that matter, are roughly the size of say a Golf, Focus or Civic (hatchback). The 1-series sedan, A3 sedan and CLA are C segment sedans as a result. 3 series, C class and A4 sit one above that. The A1 and Mini are super minis, aka B segment. It all matches up nicely.

IIRC the size difference between premium D segment and regular D segment seemed to be small, but then regular D segment cars literally exploded. That doesn't make them E segment though, or degrade premium D segment cars.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-segment


This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 21 2016, 11:00 PM

despite subaru XV having one of the highest ground clearance among those CUVs

it looks like a car and handles like a car

maybe JPJ bengong and categorize it as car

Seg, to Seg. , Euro designed cars r smaller in cabin size than those designed for our local market. Even though, Average European in physical larger than us local.
Our most popular models: Myvi, Axia and soon to be popular Bezza r B and A segment which r large in cabin size.
Mini or compact cars r upsizing the cabin to meet our low buying power?

I think so. Amongst other reasons.

In Europe, if you buy a A or B segment car, you don't want to fetch many people. It's for those who mainly drive alone or with 2 people. C segment and up are meant for more passengers. Yes, C and D segment cars are more expensive, but I guess if necessary people can afford or just buy second hand. Few people try to squeeze complete families into their B segment car.

Also, in Europe size matters... as in, if the car is too big, that is a downside too. Maximize interior space while still being easy to park.

In SEA price is more crucial. And for larger cars I think it is about showing off. Having a ton of leg room at the back. etc. Plus families tend to be bigger... more children.

However there are also oversized cars in Europe. There is Skoda of course, whose C segment competitor is quite big, let alone their D segment competitor.

http://aws-cf.caradisiac.com/prod/photos/3...-33310512fa.jpg
(I also love how sharp yet understated it looks... you wouldn't think it hits 100 in 6.8s)

Their D segment Superb is also very big...
http://www.driving.co.uk/s3/st-driving-pro...VIEW-HEADER.jpg
Amazingly though the new Perdana is even bigger... another 14 cm (Proton is mad...). I sat in the previous gen Superb (front and back), and at no point, ever, did I think that car could do with more space. It is ridiculous how big that thing is. But it looks like the Japanese are still quite big compared to Skoda... but at least Skoda is competitive.

Anyway, then there is also Dacia, which offers a lot of space for very little money.

A 30 sec googling revealed that you are a liar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_Car_Segment

umm, because it was originally a car



a car on stilts = xv

You are right, but then for two cars with similar cc, the category will define the road tax (Saloon vs SUV).

Looks like there is no definite answer in defining a segment/category to a specific car model.

All this while I thought there is a set of rules. For instance, A segment cars will have bla, bla, bla dimension, B segment with bla, bla, bla dimensions and so forth..

But then again car companies must have something to hold on when they announce that their cars categorized under which segment...

Well, as far as I'm concerned, XV is categorized as 'Jip' under JPJ regulations, meaning it is a SUV. HRV in the other hand, publicly known as a 'Crossover' is categorized as a 'Saloon' under JPJ. So, it has cheaper road tax despite the big engine cc.

Fan of Skoda?

How I wish the brand can do well in our country. Any idea why the brand is dead in Malaysia?

Well, I think they are quite good. I think their latest cars look absolutely terrific. I'm more into Seat though, and Skoda has gotten a bit expensive. Same price as VW more or less, just that they offer more space. Seems to me that in Germany they even retain their value better than VW... crazy.

Anyway, I think Malaysians are super brand conscious, and Skoda... well, the Czech Republic isn't exactly famous for it's cars. Then the importer didn't do the best job either. At some point they focused on performance versions of their cars, which immediately ups the price.

I do hope that VW takes over Skoda in Malaysia, and offers them alongside VW as a budget option (I mean, with those crazy low prices VW sometimes offers these days, doesn't that hurt the brand? Wouldn't it make more sense to establish a budget brand for that purpose?). In terms of servicing and spare parts they are pretty much the same cars, just a different shell, so they can profit from that.

Wow never heard of Seat. After I googled through the website I found their cars are quite amazing. These cars are probably more reliable than VW!

Getting VW to be distributor of Skoda might a perfect solution though.

Hmm i always tot that a mercedes c class is a c segment n not d segment.
Not bcos of the letter, but due to the space.

Skoda and Seat belong to VW, use the same platform and the same parts underneath the skin. Same engine, same gearbox, same sensors, ... So the only major difference is the place where it is produced/assembled. And pehaps, being more expensive, VW uses A grade components vs. B grade for the others.

Because underneath the skin they are all the same, it would be cool if VW would offer Skoda, Seat and VW (and perhaps Audi too) in Malaysia. More sales means more SCs are needed, means more staff trained, and since all SCs can work on the same cars they can have logos for all brands... more brand recognition, and they can cover Malaysia with SCs. They can keep a larger stock of spare parts. etc.

Skoda can cover the price conscious family who wants a continental ride, but need a lot of space. Maybe use some more basic technology there, if available, so less worries about spare parts.

VW can cover the somewhat premium segment (not fully premium)... a bit more expensive than the others, offers the most luxury, interior feels poshest.

Seat can cover youngsters, people who feel young at heart. Not so expensive, more fun to drive, sporty looks but still practical. Compared to the Golf the Leon is indeed more fun to drive, but less comfortable. The interior feels a bit cheaper. They could offer a 150 hp Leon with a 6 speed manual gearbox... about 10k cheaper than the DSG version, and there are people who enjoy manual gearboxes (and this unit is easy to use, with no rolling back at a traffic light etc.).

well, i own a skoda.superb 1st gen of course.there's no mk2 in malaysia is there?what i hate about it is many workshops just wave goodbye the moment i step out in front of their doors.not even wanting try look at what problem it might have.some say its china car,some even said russian.so far not many issues that are major apart from being old.alternator died,sensor needs replacing blah blah.all can be obtained rather easily from conti part suppliers.but the pain PITA is the bodypart.wish i had a massive 3d printer and just printout whatever part that broke

There is. But mostly used by Berjaya Group as company cars. Individual owners are rare. I know one senior GP owning one Superb Mk2. He upgraded from Octavia Mk2. Feels luxurious inside. Didn't feel any juddering/jerking from the DSG.

How about VW specialists? The Mk1 Superb is a stretched Passat. They sold it as a VW in China...

The case of VW=Skoda=Seat is different from Nissan=Infiniti or Toyota=Lexus?

He was just expressing his opinion based on a grey area so why call him a liar? Even the link you point to says, "Vehicle segments for cars in Europe do not have formal characterization or regulations. Models segments tend to be based on comparison to well-known brand models" so this means there is a lot of leeway for segment classification. The models mentioned in the Wikipedia examples are the opinion of the writer only and are not objective facts. Perception may also vary between Europe and Asia.

You should learn how to reply politely in a discussion forum instead of replying rudely to those whom you don't agree with. Posts like your can easily start a flame war for no reason and end useful discussion and sharing.

Well, kind of. Infiniti and Lexus were artificially created, while VW's brands were all bought or a result of a merger... Skoda, Seat, Audi, Porsche, Bugatti, Bentley, Lamborghini, ... Maybe Nissan/Datsun?

VW is the mainstream brand, just like Nissan and Toyota, but in a move to differentiate they went a bit upscale... while Infiniti and Lexus are, just like Audi, proper premium brands. While they may share parts, overall the feel should be different.

VW sits somewhere between Toyota and Lexus... a bit premium, but not fully premium (the price tag reflects that, the options do, the way the cars feel inside). Seat and Skoda are more budget brands... Think Daihatsu or Datsun... however those sit way below Nissan and Toyota, while Seat and Skoda are pretty close to mainstream brands, or just as good. They share a lot of technology too, the main difference is what options are available and how you can get them, and how posh is the interior. Skoda gets the fewest options, Seat gets almost all options you can get on a VW, however where even a Trendline (base spec) Golf can get pretty much all options, you need to go for Style (mid level) or FR (high spec) with a Leon. Adaptive dampeners are available for most Golfs, while you need to get a FR with at least 170 hp when ordering a Leon (though they have lowered the bar now I believe... it's 140 hp? Not sure). Skoda goes for value for money, the price is similar to VW, but the car is significantly larger. Seat goes for younger audiences, so they are sportier (looks and handling) and don't cost as much. Maybe closer to the Koreans.

To be fair, other brands, such as Opel, Peugeot, Ford, Renault etc. also try to move upscale... And Peugeot/Citroen created a new brand called DS, which is similar to what Toyota and Nissan did.

VincentCS isn't a liar. As I've said before, car segments are a subjective thing. There are no clear lines, and he just wasn't aware that some/many people consider cars like the 3 series D segment.

I suppose quality levels are also a part of what segment a car is in? i.e. A segment tend to feel really cheap, B segment should be ok, C segment should be better than that yet, D segment should already feel premium. etc.

For the sake of argument,

If there is no objective fact presence, how should this argument proceed?

If segmentation is just personal preference and opinion with lots of leeway across the board, then how should we could apply this segmentation rule?



Also, i should attach the meme for your better understanding regarding the phrase "you are a liar"

You're a liar is a harsh accusation, especially when he only made a mistake.

And there is no segmentation rule. If there is, try to define it to me, please.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Aug 1 2016, 07:41 AM

It's a meme for god sake

If so, what's the point of all of these discussions?

I think you should be ashamed of yourself with most of the childish or rubbish responses you often post here. Instead of calling people liar for just as small simple mistake, you ought to take a step backwards and ponder about your immaturity which is amusing. I wonder what a person you are in real life to keep behaving like this. Nevertheless, I understand the world is made up of all kinds of people so all is good. Just a bad taste we have people like you on this forum.

+1

Wise comment from a person with that avatar.

How mature you are with good taste in life.

Thanks but no thanks.

Very informative.

Btw, are you in the automotive field?

Nah, just happen to like cars and to be in an area where these models are everywhere. Plus I was looking for a car recently, and the Golf, Leon and Octavia were on my shortlist.

You still have not decided yet?
Seem like a long time since you open the QnA tread here.

Oh I did, I ended up buying a Golf. Drove the Leon, it's a great car, more fun to drive than the Golf (despite running on the same components, but you can feel that the Leon is made for a different audience). However it was impossible to find one with the kind of specs that I want, I would have had to order a new one (which would have been great, but takes 3 months to deliver... and cost more of course). I did find a Golf that had all I wanted, and then some, at a good price. Trade off is it is 3 years old. Oh well. But I'm happy

Some time I do envy you guys across the globe where you have tons of option when buying a new car.

also the one that lives in the states, where buy and sell used car is as easy as buying a canned food

I thought so...just enter any used car dealer, pay some cash and off you go (at least that's what I saw in movie)!

Can't speak of US, but here I had to get the car papers and the paper that shows that the car is still legal to run - every 2 years we've got to get it tested... The dealer only gave me these papers after I paid part of the car/made sure he gets paid. After applying for temporary insurance, I could go to the car registration office in my home town (the alternative would be the place the car is sold, but there the government employees are overworked, you have to book an appointment days in advance...). There I could register the car under a temporary number plate (costs money of course...), usable for a max of 5 days IIRC. If there is no insurance coverage, I can't get the license plate. With the license plate I could go to pick up the car. The plate is only valid for driving straight to the home town. There I had to get the proper license plate after giving proof that I have proper insurance for the car.

The only good thing is I don't have to go there ever again until I move... (have to change the number plate then) no need to renew road tax. Happens automatically.

US runs similar system too, u need insurance before you can register the car. Registration follow states rule tho.

Just that the entire process is much easier, could be done at the dealer and straight away driving.

Talking about number plate registration, in Malaysia we can freely register our cars in any states!

Do you think there are any pros and cons with these system (US vs Malaysia system)?

We're getting slightly off topic, but...

I can only speak for Germany vs Malaysia, and I think I prefer the German system. Getting the cars checked every 2 years means that at least a certain safety standard is maintained. Plus you are allowed to tune the car, as long as it is safe. In Malaysia there are rules that may not make much sense (though enforcement is another matter).

I also like that the car is registered to a certain location. Every larger town has their own letter, apparently there are 556 of them... We can take the number plate with us these days (not so sure I'm a fan of that... so far you could tell where a driver was from, if he was local, ...), but when you move, they have to be informed. That ensures that any speeding tickets etc. will be delivered to your home, and there's no way of getting around them. Don't pay, you'll end up paying much, much more. It helps maintain some sanity on the road.

That road tax is simply deducted from your bank account is very convenient. No need to run to the POS every year...

There is a flat fee for special number plates. Anything is allowed (that fits within the standard), as long as it is still available (and doesn't say something like SS 88 (SS being the armed wing of the Nazis) and 88 (which stands for Heil Hitler)).

As you may know, number plates are standardized. No unreadable fonts or anything. I think it looks neat. The basic design is the same all over Europe, though the font can differ. The font used in Germany was specially designed for license plates. The idea was that you can't modify the letters or numbers to look like a different number. They are all unique. That's why the O looks like an egg, for example. Another goal was that computers should be able to easily distinguish the letters.