This car is for carrying the family from a to b, not to do racing. Drum brakes will do a good enough job at stopping the car when need be. At least drum brakes can achieve that, there are some cars that stop really fast... despite having drum brakes. I'd be more interested in more than 3 airbags...

This car is a lot like the Kangoo, just even more flexible and with better thought out rear seats. The jury is still out on how good the rear seats are (they are pretty great on the Kangoo, as long as your legs aren't too long, but the seating position is much more comfortable than in the Alza or Touran, despite the Touran having a lot more leg room). Sliding doors are super practical, being electric even more so. Entrance for the elderly should be even better than in the Kangoo, thanks to a wider opening around the footwell.

Looking at aztechx photos it looks like the seat is quite high compared to where the feet go, which means you can sit quite comfortably in the 3rd row. Not perfect, but a lot better than some much more expensive MPVs.

@wkc5657: How so? Is this rear wheel drive? What relationship could this car (developed and sold in Japan) have with the Avanza (developed in Indonesia, not sold in Japan)?

I've been in the previous Sienta a couple of times... it's fine. Not great, the ride isn't as good as the Kangoo's ride for example, but it's fine. Interior quality is acceptable. It's an affordable car after all.

This car is relatively short, but spacious inside. Great if you live in a place with tight car parks, say, KL. Can fit in places where other 7 seaters or even sedans can't fit. Big advantage. Looks isn't everything, and at least they try to make it look interesting. The Avanza looks like a crappy 15 year old car wearing make up (which, erm, it is).

If I needed a 7 seater MPV, this would be it. (And yes, I'm a notorious Toyota hater).

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 4 2016, 09:36 PM

Few cars have a 3rd row suitable for full grown adults, especially not small MPVs. What matters is if it suitable for kids. And I think the Sienta could be. In comparison, the VW Touran isn't suitable for kids. It only works with amputees that lack the part below the knees, because there is no space for that.

No worries. The drive train might be the same, yeah. We'll see.

Mh. The Citroen C4 Grand Picasso looks kind of funky too, plus is a lot more attractive. It's a much bigger car though, and more expensive.

Leather seats... I prefer Alcantara. Doesn't burn your bum as bad as leather, not so slippery...

I'd say it's economics. The question is, what do customers want? What are they going to pay for? So far the thinking at car makers seems to be that while additional airbags cost money, people just don't care that much. If you show them a car with 6 airbags and steel rims, or a car with 2 airbags and alloy rims + maybe leather seats or a flashy aftermarket radio, both costing the same, they will get the car with alloy rims.

Now, if that is still true... who knows. But as long as they can sell cars without additional airbags, they will.

For my Golf there is the option of 2 additional airbags for rear passengers, it costs RM 1600. In comparison, some other popular items: Sun roof: RM 4700. Leather: Minimum RM 8900. HID: RM 3800. Radio (stock comes without radio I think): Minimum RM 1800. Rear doors: RM 9000.

And going back to safety features: Adaptive cruise control with automatic braking in emergency situations: RM 2400. Lane assist with self correcting feature (doesn't only warn you if you leave the lane, but steers the car back into the lane/holds the lane): RM 3200. Traffic sign recognition (has the same camera as lane assist, so if you have it, the car can be hacked to offer lane assist too): RM 1400.

So airbags are a cheap option, relatively speaking, but it is one deemed unnecessary for the SEA market. Just look at Proton sales vs Perodua sales. The significantly safer car easily loses. Or look at the Golf in Malaysia: VW could have ordered all the safety features, which would add up to RM 8600 (airbags, adaptive cruise control, traffic sign recognition and lane assist). Maybe drop the 150 hp engine, get 120 instead, that should pretty much even out what you pay extra for the safety features.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 7 2016, 05:07 PM

More solid... and hybrid drivetrain also weights a bit.

I thought EEV and hybrid incentives are for CKD cars only?

If you jump out of the window, you think a small pillow is going to save you?

How is 107 hp too little for a small MPV? It will do fine. If you want to accelerate, here's a hint: Push the pedal to the metal. Maybe you'll need to rev the engine (especially since it is NA... in terms of power delivery turbocharged 1.2s with the same amount of power are better to drive, more effortless). If you watch (many) Malaysians and how they accelerate, you'd think they all have 40 hp at most. Would more power hurt? Probably not. But it'll do.

Our MPV has 75 hp, and a crappy 4 speed auto box that ate up most of the power. Guess what: It was enough to go with the flow and drive faster than most other drivers.

Anyway, it's an MPV, not a sports car.

I don't think the white is metallic... looks quite flat on photos. But who knows.

I think the black version could be for people who want a more subdued looking Sienta? Like, those lines are pretty striking, but if you don't want them to be, go for black. Or perhaps the black version features accents in alternative colors?

For example:



Or maybe you could get the black one, and respray the contrasting elements in white or orange? I think that could look pretty cool too.

Aaah:

The orange is missing, instead there is marker yellow... not sure I like that version. And the white looks a bit cheap.

Yup. The Kangoo it is.

The Ertiga, just like the Avanza, is specially developed for second/third world countries/developing nations. Particularly India. The Sienta is developed for Japan and other first world countries. Different priorities. When the Ford EcoSport, which was developed for Brasil, was imported to Europe, it was universally panned. The car just isn't good enough. I'd expect more from the Sienta... I'd expect a car that is competitive with other MPVs.

I don't think all Sienta will have the arm rest. Some trim levels will have it, others won't. Or maybe the arm rest is an option... for example with VW, like with many other car makers, even the highest spec doesn't include everything possible. In fact, for VW, the spec level makes little difference, you can order a ton of options on top of that. No idea how they handle things in Japan, but I guess it will be more or less similar (as the cars are made there... the further away you get from Germany, the more limited are the possible options when you buy a VW).

That Polo has a turbo, so yeah, it's going to be more powerful. The Sienta doesn't, I believe? While technology has advanced (we used to have 5 liter engines with 150 hp...), there is only so much you can do with an NA engine.

You could also get the red variant and paint the plastic parts white.

Also the Sienta will have more space with the 3rd row folded away.

Not everyone always travels with 7 people and luggage (and if you do, the Avanza is still a bit small for that). It's mostly a 5 seater that can also act as 7 seater if necessary. Won't suit every need, but some needs it will suit better than the Avanza.

Also the Sienta is much better than the Avanza if you have elderly passengers. Putting a wheel chair inside is easier, cause the boot lip is lower. Sliding doors mean a wide opening for the 2nd row, and you can stand there to assist the elderly person. With a regular door, there is no space for someone to stand there in order to assist. Entrance is also possible in a tighter spot, where you can't fully open the door. The lower floor means the elderly person doesn't have to climb into the car. Just let him sit on the seat, then the assisting person can lift his legs and rotate the person. Inside he is.

To me it is the better car. Plus it drives more like a car.




There is some space for luggage. The Avanza looks a bit bigger, but the difference isn't big. And once you travel with 6 passengers, you have a lot more boot space in the Sienta. You can completely fold away the Sienta seat, while the Avanza still has a huge seat taking away lots of space in the cabin.


Once you need to bring along bigger items, the Avanza has completely lost, and sedans can't compete either.

We have a Kangoo, and were able to transport 5 adults and a big massage chair (plus a bit of luggage) with it. But we had to remove the 3rd row seats for that. In the Sienta when folded away the 3rd row seats don't take up any space. It's brilliant.

The Innova is a 3rd world van. This is a proper vehicle meant for people who care about safety and having a decent car... If you'd try selling the Innova in Japan, people will laugh at you. But they'll buy tons of Sientas.

There is a reason why cars meant for third world countries aren't sold in, say, Japan or Europe. Or even when they are, they are rejected by the public. The Mitsubishi Mirage does really terrible in Europe. So does the Ford EcoSport, even though it comes from a popular brand. And despite the EcoSport getting some improvements. The segment leading Renault Captur outsells the EcoSport 13 to 1. The runner up from Peugeot outsells it 11:1, and the third (an Opel) outsells it 10:1.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 27 2016, 06:16 PM

Airbags aren't everything. The Avanza failed in the CNCAP test, which at that time tested at lower speeds. It probably wasn't designed with safety in mind, and it probably wasn't designed by engineers that are experienced in that field. The car needs to be well designed in the first place for airbags to make sense. Then there need to be seatbelts, and they have to be in use. And finally, airbags. One of these things missing, and the result is catastrophic. All needs to come together.

Until not too long ago I'd say so. These days even Perodua is putting in some effort to improve safety... not Japanese or conti standard, but at least an improvement. And since the Preve Proton has been striving to reach and fulfill international safety standards... I'd say successfully.

But those Indonesian and Indian designed Toyotas for example are... not so safe. Same goes to for example the Datsun Go, which is dreadful. Global NCAP IIRC went so far to say that it doesn't matter if they add airbags... the car is a deathtrap.

Malaysian lives are only as cheap as Malaysians make them. As long as cars with poor safety are preferred over ones with good safety, car makers will offer that. There is a reason why in Europe the most basic Golf comes with 85 hp, no FM radio (!!!), tiny steel rims and misses 2 doors, but includes 6 airbags and stability control. And the reason isn't the government. It's customers.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jul 28 2016, 09:46 PM

Turning circle for RWD cars is usually smaller... easier to handle in towns. One of the reasons why the new Renault Twingo/Smart fortwo/forfour is RWD.

Also in terms of handling luxury and performance cars are usually RWD. Drove a BMW 1 series... very nice. Even better than VW Golf, Seat Leon and Ford Focus...

However the Avanza is more of a truck that isn't meant to handle well, just carry a lot of stuff. It's not meant to be comfortable or good handling.

You are basing your experience on a 30 year old car. Don't you think things can change? I'm sure you were different 30 years ago.

Often times car makers make cars that are reliable and cars that are unreliable at the same car. One model is good, the other isn't. Saying a car maker is unreliable based on experiences from long ago is silly, when things in the business change fast and even different production years/models can make a significant difference.

Why? I've never owned a car with more than a 1.4 (except my first car, which was a 1.9, but that engine was lethargic). Unless you want to go speeding, 1.5 will be fine. Our Kangoo had a 1.4, no turbo, 75 hp. It was fine, even with 7 passengers and some luggage. Could it be faster? Sure. But for normal traffic? It's a people mover, not a racing car. The Sienta has 107 hp. It'll be fine. My current 1.4 has 140 hp, now I need to be gentle with the accelerator to not look like an idiot all the time

Yes, but he has to consider the purpose and what you get for it.

The Alza has a useless third row, the Touran an even more useless third row. The Grand Livina is a "third world" car, for less demanding customers, a station wagon with seats in the boot. The Avanza is simply a "third world" car that doesn't even ride well. The only alternative I see is the Exora, but unless you really need the space, city dwellers are probably better off with the Sienta due to it's Tardis-iness.

The Sienta is designed for more demanding customers, and extremely practical. It is ideal for elderly passengers, and no other car near it's price tag has sliding doors.

The engine is acceptable for the purpose.

The only thing lacking is airbags. It should have 6 or 7, in other countries it does, and other brands like Proton can offer it for half the price tag. Airbags aren't expensive, my car has 8 instead of the standard 6 and it was like RM 800 for that. 3 airbags is pathetic in 2016... my previous car was a 2002 C segment aeroback... almost entry level specs, 75 hp, manual. Not an expensive car. It had 6 airbags. Now that is overseas, but come one... 14 years later, for a more expensive car, 3 just isn't enough. Especially considering that it is a family car.

EPS saves fuel and lets them implement neat features easily. There are cars with hydraulic power steering that have speed dependent assistance, so on the highway the steering doesn't get too light. But it's not so common, not so easy to do. For EPS it's just a bit of software (though some cars still don't have it... ). EPS means they can implement lane assist with self steering, they can implement self parking features, etc. However in terms of feel EPS very rarely gets it right. I don't know why.