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 Chinese School v. International School - pros/cons, Tell me your personal experiences

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thesoothsayer
post Jun 22 2016, 10:44 PM

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If you're from an international school and can afford to send your kids to one, obviously you're quite well off.

I always thought that kids at an international school had better exposure. Why do you feel that Chinese school can give a better educational foundation?

I'm actually veering towards the individual rather than the system that maketh the person sort of thinking after meeting and teaching many students. Not impressed by any education stream as a whole, but have met a few excellent students from varied educational backgrounds.

You probably have to consider your children's character and intelligence individually before deciding where to send them. An excellent student could excel at a place where they emphasize on academic achievement, but an average or below average student could be shattered by the expectations.

Just my opinion from interaction with students. Personally, I'm from a national school but my own experience is that you'll just get mediocrity there.
Post-Je-Ape-Ape
post Jun 23 2016, 02:17 AM

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Do you send your kids to school to

i) study

or

ii) learn
JunJun04035
post Jun 23 2016, 06:07 AM

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I received Chinese-base education from primary school till High School (aka Independent School)
Then I transitioned to Singapore Uni.

In Singapore Uni, I made friends with lots of people from different background, both European descents Caucasian and local Caucasian/Asian that enrolled with local International School. I hardly find any similarities among their attitude and ability in term of critical thinking, problem solving skill and communication skill.

In a very general way to conclude it, I found that the secondary education background an individual being raised is irrelevant.

However, I do believe that international school may be able to provide a better environment for children to growth if compared with local school. But at the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the children's attitude toward learning, is it for sake of learning, or for the sake of certification?
kpfun
post Jun 23 2016, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Jun 23 2016, 06:07 AM)
I received Chinese-base education from primary school till High School (aka Independent School)
Then I transitioned to Singapore Uni.

In Singapore Uni, I made friends with lots of people from different background, both European descents Caucasian and local Caucasian/Asian that enrolled with local International School. I hardly find any similarities among their attitude and ability in term of critical thinking, problem solving skill and communication skill.

In a very general way to conclude it, I found that the secondary education background an individual being raised is irrelevant.

However, I do believe that international school may be able to provide a better environment for children to growth if compared with local school. But at the end of the day, it's ultimately up to the children's attitude toward learning, is it for sake of learning, or for the sake of certification?
*
Should not waste the opportunity of studying in Chinese Primary School. My in-law, sent their 2 kids to Chinese Primary School, and 2 were not. All the 4 kids were educated up to, at least, first degree, but, very much different in behaviour.

Simple as that, the two, without Chinese education, are taking their parents in focus, very much less than the other two.

The Chinese Primary School is not teaching only read and write, indeed the culture that inherited from 5,000 years, which is the most valuable in the education.









JunJun04035
post Jun 23 2016, 09:21 AM

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QUOTE(kpfun @ Jun 23 2016, 08:41 AM)
Should not waste the opportunity of studying in Chinese Primary School. My in-law, sent their 2 kids to Chinese Primary School, and 2 were not. All the 4 kids were educated up to, at least, first degree, but, very much different in behaviour.

Simple as that, the two, without Chinese education, are taking their parents in focus, very much less than the other two.

The Chinese Primary School is not teaching only read and write, indeed the culture that inherited from 5,000 years, which is the most valuable in the education.
*
Some what agree with you.
The Chinese education system do nature highly competitive, focus, merit oriented individual and often being dubbed as elitism that lack in creativity, critical thinking and some what lack the ability to be emphatic toward others.
kpfun
post Jun 23 2016, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(JunJun04035 @ Jun 23 2016, 09:21 AM)
Some what agree with you.
The Chinese education system do nature highly competitive, focus, merit oriented individual and often being dubbed as elitism that lack in creativity, critical thinking and some what lack the ability to be emphatic toward others.
*
Partially agree.

The pro of the Chinese education should be considered seriously. It affects how the kid behaves his or her whole life.

It is a good combination - Primary Chinese School + International High School.


TSkwackers
post Jun 23 2016, 09:52 AM

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I don't intend to be one of those Asian Tiger parents, pressuring my kids to be at the top of their classes. It may be idealistic, but I would want them to develop a love for learning, and not feel like doing homework is a chore. Learning Mandarin isn't one of my main goals in sending them to Chinese school; I'm more interested in the academic habits and discipline aspects.

I do have my reservations; sending them to a Chinese primary school wasn't an easy decision for me. Yes, I'm well aware of the perception that Chinese schools develop kids who are lacking in EQ, who are afraid to speak up and express themselves (although isn't this the case with SK kids as well?), and etc. But I believe that we can try to counter this, or help to develop their confidence through other means/programs. *



QUOTE(Strawberry<3 @ Jun 22 2016, 06:33 PM)
Talk from my real experience.

I studied in Chinese school from kindergarten to standard 2. I could speak Chinese but my English was 0.

Then I got transferred to International school. It was hard for me at first but I slowly picked it up and improved. Within a year can speak English fluently. So don't worry, kids can learn and improve quite fast.
*
Strawberry<3: Can you tell me a bit more about your experience at the International school? Other than the English, how did you feel, compared to the other kids who came from International primary schools? Did you feel like you had to work harder to catch up? Any difficulty adjusting to the change in the medium of instruction? (Chinese to English)



QUOTE(kpfun @ Jun 23 2016, 08:41 AM)
Should not waste the opportunity of studying in Chinese Primary School. My in-law, sent their 2 kids to Chinese Primary School, and 2 were not. All the 4 kids were educated up to, at least, first degree, but, very much different in behaviour.

Simple as that, the two, without Chinese education, are taking their parents in focus, very much less than the other two.
*
kpfun, I'm interested to know a bit more about the kids you described. Can you elaborate on the difference between the kids who were from Chinese-Ed background vs. the ones who weren't? I didn't quite understand what you meant by "taking their parents in focus"



QUOTE(thesoothsayer @ Jun 22 2016, 10:44 PM)
If you're from an international school and can afford to send your kids to one, obviously you're quite well off.
*
I was only able to attend an International school because of my dad's employment benefits. And if I send my kids to an International school, it would be a local private school with an International syllabus (e.g. KDU or Sri Cempaka; A well-established and reputable program that is reasonably affordable.) rather than one of the expensive ones like ISKL, Garden International School or British International School.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

* At the risk of sounding like I'm selling something, I met the guy who started the MoneyTree program, and was really impressed with the intention behind what they teach. Although their main focus is on teaching financial concepts to kids, they also try to de-program kids who are products of the local schooling system, who are discouraged from speaking up and expressing themselves.

"...to deliver financial education to children in a way that they could understand, while also teaching them other necessary skills that was crucial but missing from the existing education system such as presentation and public speaking skills."

Things like this, or speech/drama classes, etc. are what I have in mind to help develop the confidence, freedom of expression and other soft-skills and personality traits that may be lacking from a Chinese-school education.

This post has been edited by kwackers: Jun 23 2016, 09:57 AM
goldrush
post Jun 23 2016, 09:52 AM

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QUOTE(9876789 @ Jun 22 2016, 06:15 PM)
exactly my case.
but the chinese thinking still there.
i have to re-learn my comm skill and be open.

while international school kids are outgoing and charismatic, action first talk later,
me and most of my friend who went to chinese primary tend to be quiet observant kind.
*
i believe depend gua... so far so good for the group of my friend.
kpfun
post Jun 23 2016, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(kwackers @ Jun 23 2016, 09:52 AM)

kpfun, I'm interested to know a bit more about the kids you described.  Can you elaborate on the difference between the kids who were from Chinese-Ed background vs. the ones who weren't?  I didn't quite understand what you meant by "taking their parents in focus"

*
The 4 kids are already in middle age now. In the past, the two without Chinese education, are hardly visiting parents. They are very affordable people. They never take initiative to do anything for their parents. They are definitely not bad son or bad daughter. Indeed, they always do the best to fulfil their parents' requests. But, the parents have to ask.

It is fair to say that they do not prioritise their time and focus for parents like the other two siblings.

I just illustrate an example of how they manage family matter.

During their father funeral, their kids were sent back to home after staying a night. I can understand if these kids went back for examination, but, it was not, just for normal school days. They don't see the important of grandsons and granddaughters to attend their grandpa's funeral in full.

I was educated by Chinese education. My teachers always like to teach us, how important to respect and take care of parents. This is the core value of Chinese culture.

I share with you another story to see the shock which is related to education and culture background.

I was working in a multi-national company. One day, my European counterpart came to see me with sour face. He was seeking my advice for should he approves his Asian staff who asked for 3 weeks leave for taking care of his sick father. He couldn't see the validity of the reason because taking care of a sick father is a nursery job, should not by son or daughter.

I have a relative in Singapore, a very reputable specialist in medical field. She closed her clinic for 2 months to accompany his father who was very sick. The 2 months caused her more than S$100K in income lost. She was educated by early Chinese Education in Singapore.

There is no right or wrong here. It is only that, the education background, especially the early stage, makes someone see thing differently.
















Strawberry<3
post Jun 23 2016, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(kwackers @ Jun 23 2016, 09:52 AM)
Strawberry<3:  Can you tell me a bit more about your experience at the International school?  Other than the English, how did you feel, compared to the other kids who came from International primary schools?  Did you feel like you had to work harder to catch up?  Any difficulty adjusting to the change in the medium of instruction? (Chinese to English)
*
Erm.. It was something new for me on the 1st day.. New environment, new people, new culture. But lucky that the kids in my class were quite friendly. Teacher is kind. Only abit difficulties on the language. Everything is in English. It takes sometimes to catch up. Math was fine because it just numbers and calculations.

I feel being in the International school is more fun and world wide. Because we get to meet people from different countries. Learned different culture and mindset. In Chinese school you only meet Chinese people with Chinese culture and same mindset. That's why the lifestyle of being in the International school vs Chinese school looks different. International school kids are more into western style. But quite noisy as they are active and don't mind to express themselves.

I can see the difference sometimes when we get to meet other kids from Chinese school during sport days or some education tour we had. Our kids from international school is quite noisy and some were jumping up and down sweat.gif .. but the kids from other school are so quiet.





hushymushy
post Jun 23 2016, 11:53 AM

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my kids are in Chinese school.....i don't speak/read/understand mandarin
my wife can.....

have i missed out on some career opportunity....yes....but its not end of the world....
i am also learning some basic form of mandarin now...its becoming important esp if you are working international firms with China market potentials
China market is huge as we all know....

for me....primary kids....the understanding of multi lingual is important
esp both english and mandarin....

my kids first language is english since my mum and I speaks english at home most of the time...and they grew up talking english primarily 90% of the time

so with my son in chinese school now...obviously the english focus is less as all classes conducted in mandarin except for BM and English....so i send him to British Council for english classes

in terms of educating mindset and different learning ways....i have to say international education promotes self thinking and better self expression
they carry themselves better and able to articulate in the right manner

chinese eds....though this is quite generalization...they tend to be more timid, less self expression and more of by the book type

over the years, i have met with lots of people with many many types of background....
i guess what changes them are live experiences....

i spend time coaching my kids to think and make decisions
coach them on thinking logical....

school education is not the only education.....they need life education too
to be independant....educate them to handle various situations
SUSVape [On]
post Jun 23 2016, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(v1n0d @ Jun 22 2016, 09:03 AM)
Chinese schools may produce scholastically better students, but their EQ goes down the drain unless there's a support system in place to encourage students to mix and communicate in languages other than Chinese. Transitioning from a Chinese primary school to a secondary international one seems to help overcome this communication barrier, yet still provide the basic discipline and strong foundation in maths and science.

P. S. I deal with schooleavers on a daily basis as I lecture at the diploma and bachelor's level. I find that a majority of those who studied in the Chinese/national system all the way are non-communicative, especially when it comes to having discussions in class. They don't speak their mind because they're always afraid of being wrong. Those from international schools are not afraid to spitball and justify their views, even though it may be wrong. To me, this is very important in a university education, and it's what sets it apart from school.
*

i dont see what is the problem with EQ. Can you share more?

So what about those from tamil/malay school?




About the talkative part.


Wise men speak because they have something to say. Fools because they have to say something.

From western man. Plato

This post has been edited by Vape [On]: Jun 23 2016, 01:20 PM
SUSVape [On]
post Jun 23 2016, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(hushymushy @ Jun 23 2016, 11:53 AM)
my kids are in Chinese school.....i don't speak/read/understand mandarin
my wife can.....

have i missed out on some career opportunity....yes....but its not end of the world....
i am also learning some basic form of mandarin now...its becoming important esp if you are working international firms with China market potentials
China market is huge as we all know....

for me....primary kids....the understanding of multi lingual is important
esp both english and mandarin....

my kids first language is english since my mum and I speaks english at home most of the time...and they grew up talking english primarily 90% of the time

so with my son in chinese school now...obviously the english focus is less as all classes conducted in mandarin except for BM and English....so i send him to British Council for english classes

in terms of educating mindset and different learning ways....i have to say international education promotes self thinking and better self expression
they carry themselves better and able to articulate in the right manner

chinese eds....though this is quite generalization...they tend to be more timid, less self expression and more of by the book type

over the years, i have met with lots of people with many many types of background....
i guess what changes them are live experiences....

i spend time coaching my kids to think and make decisions
coach them on thinking logical....

school education is not the only education.....they need life education too
to be independant....educate them to handle various situations
*
Exactly.


Judging that the numbers of chinese school to national school is 1:10.

So i dont see the reason to put the blame on chinese school.

And frankly. I dont see the reason to enroll in international school if they are going to end up staying in Malaysia. Might as well keep the money and send them oversea for their tertiary education.

I dont understandthe hostility here towards chinese school. You guys met some scum. And quickly point out he is from chinese school. Let me remind you that fast food workers are mostly from?

What is the point of talking about their primary school if their parents are the one that failed?

But too bad i cannot give you any failed example of chinese school leavers as they are all doing quite well in malaysia and oversea. Not surprising as malaysia doing quite well for the past 40 years.

If you think international school produces all the leaders thinkers creative students. Go ahead. But please. Chinese education is at the worst situation ever in malaysia due to our political climate.

People like vinod is not helping. Perhaps he can share more on his background and real example.

Hey i can say national school is bad because almost all fastfood workers are from......but that is some low class generalization anyway.


But if we talk about international school i am sure jho low was enrolled in an international school and get to meet the right person, so....
SUSVape [On]
post Jun 23 2016, 12:52 PM

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QUOTE(kpfun @ Jun 23 2016, 10:57 AM)
The 4 kids are already in middle age now. In the past, the two without Chinese education, are hardly visiting parents. They are very affordable people. They never take initiative to do anything for their parents. They are definitely not bad son or bad daughter. Indeed, they always do the best to fulfil their parents' requests. But, the parents have to ask.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

There is no right or wrong here. It is only that, the education background, especially the early stage, makes someone see thing differently.
*
Exactly.

Its funny people here try to be an asian parents hoping their children can adopt western culture.

But they expect to pay for their first house down payment, bmw for college use etc etc.(so asian)

laugh.gif

Discipline is something i find chinese school done right.

And i dont think NOT knowing a skill can be considered an advantage. Especially language skill.


Oh. Western culture. They ask their kids to work part time and leave the house by 18.

Oh and western culture,having a job as waiter is pretty normal too. So i dont know.

2 side of a coin. Depends on how you look at it.

Uptight. Strict = discipline.
Fun. Out going. = playful. Disrespectful.





This post has been edited by Vape [On]: Jun 23 2016, 01:18 PM
SUSVape [On]
post Jun 23 2016, 01:13 PM

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Chinese school

Pros
-Realistic. You have to work hard to deliver result.
-good for busy parents because the school will keep your kids busy. Budaya lepak hopefully is lesser than others.
-discipline. No. You cant be bill gates if you are too lazy to get out of bed on time.

Cons?
Too many homework compared to others.
English proficiency is weaker than international school. But i wont trade 2 languages for 1.

But i dont see any chinese school students have problems in getting a first class honour in any university be it in malay or english medium.

Nor do i heard chinese school student has a problem in getting a job or make ends meet.

The biased towards chinese school i must say it is due to jelousy and racism.

Who is the one having trouble looking for a job?

Nope. Not those from chinese school.


oe_kintaro
post Jun 23 2016, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(kpfun @ Jun 23 2016, 10:57 AM)
The 4 kids are already in middle age now. In the past, the two without Chinese education, are hardly visiting parents. They are very affordable people. They never take initiative to do anything for their parents. They are definitely not bad son or bad daughter. Indeed, they always do the best to fulfil their parents' requests. But, the parents have to ask.

It is fair to say that they do not prioritise their time and focus for parents like the other two siblings.

I just illustrate an example of how they manage family matter.

During their father funeral, their kids were sent back to home after staying a night. I can understand if these kids went back for examination, but, it was not, just for normal school days. They don't see the important of grandsons and granddaughters to attend their grandpa's funeral in full.

I was educated by Chinese education. My teachers always like to teach us, how important to respect and take care of parents. This is the core value of Chinese culture.

I share with you another story to see the shock which is related to education and culture background.

I was working in a multi-national company. One day, my European counterpart came to see me with sour face. He was seeking my advice for should he approves his Asian staff who asked for 3 weeks leave for taking care of his sick father. He couldn't see the validity of the reason because taking care of a sick father is a nursery job, should not by son or daughter.

I have a relative in Singapore, a very reputable specialist in medical field. She closed her clinic for 2 months to accompany his father who was very sick. The 2 months caused her more than S$100K in income lost. She was educated by early Chinese Education in Singapore.

There is no right or wrong here. It is only that, the education background, especially the early stage, makes someone see thing differently.
*
This points to the fundamental difference between Asian / Western culture. No right or wrong here. In Asia, parents treat their children like investments or assets for their retirement. They expect their children to take care of them when they are old. In the west, the children are supposed to leave the nest and be independent after they leave for college. The parents don't want to trouble the kids and would rather check themselves into a retirement home when they are old. Their desire to maintain their independence well into their old age is strong.
TSkwackers
post Jun 23 2016, 02:07 PM

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QUOTE(Vape On @ Jun 23 2016, 12:37 PM)
But too bad i cannot give you any failed example of chinese school leavers as they are all doing quite well in malaysia and oversea.

Nor do i heard chinese school student has a problem in getting a job
*
You're generalizing as much as the people to whose comments you're overreacting.

I can tell you from my own experience in recruiting fresh grads that plenty of top-performing Chinese students were rejected, due to either their poor command of English or their inability/unwillingness to speak up or project any sort of impression about themselves.

I'm not singling out the Chinese students; I'd say that easily 90% of the fresh grads I interviewed couldn't articulate their thoughts or express them clearly in English.

What v1n0d mentioned in their first post is pretty consistent with the general perception on kids who attend the Chinese/national system.



This post has been edited by kwackers: Jun 23 2016, 02:25 PM
kpfun
post Jun 23 2016, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(oe_kintaro @ Jun 23 2016, 01:30 PM)
This points to the fundamental difference between Asian / Western culture. No right or wrong here. In Asia, parents treat their children like investments or assets for their retirement. They expect their children to take care of them when they are old. In the west, the children are supposed to leave the nest and be independent after they leave for college. The parents don't want to trouble the kids and would rather check themselves into a retirement home when they are old. Their desire to maintain their independence well into their old age is strong.
*
You are right.

Today's folks are generally more wealthy. They are not looking for money in return. They want the real care from children's heart.

As said in my story, the daughter took 2 months off for caring her sick father, is a very touching example. Her losing incomes of the 2 months can employ dozens nurses to do the same care.

This post has been edited by kpfun: Jun 23 2016, 02:18 PM
cmhor
post Jun 23 2016, 02:23 PM

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Nowadays, we have National schools, Chinese schools and International schools. Each has strengths and weaknesses.

The important point for a child to develop is NOT confined to what he learned in schools but the environment he grows up is equally important. The quality and dedication of the teachers, the peers that the kid mixes with and the overall school culture created by the headmaster have strong impacts on the development of a child.

Yes, International schools are better in teaching the kids to be more open and better in expressing themselves, but Chinese schools are better equipped in inculcating filial piety, respect for elders and discipline. Likewise, in some National schools if the mixture of dedicated teachers and headmasters with vision are present, the kid can grow up with positive attitude too.

Parents should bear in mind, sending their kids to a "good" school is not a guarantee for them to be successful in future. They have a far profound influence on the character building of their kids than anyone else before they reach teenage. The saying "Monkey Sees Monkey Do" applies here in child development. If the parents being the closest persons to the kid are not taking an active role in guiding and teaching correct values to their kids, how can they expect the schools and others to assume sole responsibility?

Parents should identify the weaknesses of their kids and to provide guidance and facilities to them in overcoming such weaknesses. Schools are institutions that facilitate the development and learning of the kids while parents are ULTIMATELY responsible for their character building.

So the debate of whether International schools are better or Chinese and National schools are producing mediocre students are less relevant if the parents can spend more time in teaching and guiding their kids during their formative years to be a positive thinking adult with love and care for others.

If mastering of a language is the concern then I think to be multilingual has advantage over a mono-lingual in today's border-less world. To be able to communicate in both English and Mandarin are definitely a valuable skill for anybody.

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post Jun 23 2016, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE(Hanford @ Jun 22 2016, 10:56 AM)
better go english international school

bcz im chinese secondary school/indenpendent school

after graduate to diploma or degree, very difficult to follow.

during working, no chinese in document either government or private company, all BM and English. If you want further study or self improvement, exam is english or BM only.

Malaysia culture is not fair to Chinese school.
*
hmm... not really making sense... not everyone from chinese school are having this difficulty.... it also depends on the parental teachings and their attitude.... I am from chinese primary school... to malay secondary school... I don't find it hard to follow all the syllabus or education materials in english or BM... and same goes to my friends whose been going the same path like me...

however, not necessary chinese is useless in working life... every companies intended to expand their business to China where your expertise in Mandarin would be very helpful in these cases... In my case, my command of Mandarin has give me a chance to grow further than anyone else in the Company... I gt more oversea opportunities and exposures when the Company are expanding internationally...

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