Sorry for being late to the party, didnt check LYN for the past few days... Here's my opinions as a part timer.
QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 30 2016, 01:29 PM)
I don't think shortening the barrel has any effect on its weakness. In fact modern barrels are more durable due to technological & metallurgical advances.
Having a shorter barrel does have an effect on the muzzle flash and report, though. But that is the consequence of having a shorter barrel rather than some inherent weakness in the barrel itself. As the NATO 5.56 round is specifically designed to be shot out of the standard long M16 barrel, the ammo powder is tailored for that barrel length. When the same 5.56 round is shot through a shorter barrel, the gases from the ammo powder doesn't have enough time to dissipate before the bullet exits the barrel.
Thus the round's explosive charge is still in full power when it exits the shorter barrel, creating a larger muzzle flash and report compared to when the round is shot out of the barrel length it is designed for ( the M16) where the explosive power has much dissipated the longer it travels down the longer barrel, leading to a smaller muzzle flash and quieter report.
The effect of barrel length is most apparent towards muzzle velocity. The longer your barrel the higher the velocity until a certain extent. Muzzle blast even at 14.5" is not very apparent with the standard A2 birdcage flash hider, if you go to something like a BCM Comp or competition muzzle brakes then you get the massive flash or blast back. Standard next to someone with say a Lantac brake, your teeth will rattle even though you're 1m to the side.
QUOTE(heavyduty @ May 31 2016, 01:38 AM)
He's saying that because of the shorter barrel of the m4 the ammo has different characteristics as the NATO SS019 was originally intended for a 20 inch barrel
At normal engagement range in Afghanistan,a bullet from a m16 would penetrate through the guy instead of disabling him that's why the US military prefers the M4 in current theatres
Issue in Afghan was due to the engagement distances. Original spec calls for 400m effective range, but with the newer M4s with 14.5" barrels, velocities were way lower compared to the older M16s. 556 ammo is designed to yaw in tissue to create the terminal ballistics. There's a critical velocity point where if the projectile drops below that, it will not yaw anymore. Then it becomes just a pin hole through and through.
QUOTE(MilitaryMadness @ May 31 2016, 07:50 AM)
What on earth do you mean? There's no such thing as 'M16 surplus rounds'. The 5.56mm NATO round IS the M16 round, it has always been so. All NATO weapons that use 5.56mm amo uses the M16's ammo. There are some specialist rounds like tracer, armor piercing or training ammo, but there is no such thing as "M16 rounds' or 'M4 rounds'. They are all the same.
QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ May 31 2016, 10:58 AM)
yea... i understand the same too... so i was wondering whether is there any effort on msia's part to improve/modify the ammo used for their new m4... or are they using the same specs as used in the older m16s n augs?
air assault you mean?
the standard 5.56mm nato round is aka ss019 / m855.. the standard specifies certain characteristics...
the ori m16 round was not the m855... it was another lighter bullet called m193 albeit same size, 556... manufacturers of 556 ammo outside of nato dont always produce ammo with nato specs albeit their weapons are from nato countries and chambered for 556 nato rounds... even within nato, 556 nato rounds differs across manufacturers
m4s chambered for 556 nato was initially issued to american special operations type units, a lot of them use different bullet types due many issues with shorter barrel and as americans adopt it as standard issue there have been modifications the ori m855 being used when m16 was standard while still meeting nato's 556 standards..
not saying that rounds differ across both that weapons until they cant be chambered... they still can be use interchangeably but isnt it better to optimize the round to suit the weapon?
am not a master armorer.. just sharing opinion n trying to validate knowledge
M193 = 55gr
M855 = SS109 = 62gr with steel penetrator
MK262 Mod0 = Sierra Match King 77gr OTHP --> I heard this is the SF community goto round
MK318 = 62gr open tip barrier blind, effective fragmentation at lower velocities
QUOTE(heavyduty @ May 31 2016, 11:37 AM)
Malaysia uses M193s officially as the twist rate on the M4 can handle the lighter grain ammo fine while the M16A1 can't on the elongated and heavier NATO 5.56s but I don't know the specific load.but I think they are moving towards standard SS109 rounds as the FN minimi only takes that kind of ammo
The Aussies use heavier grain 5.56 rounds on their AUGs while the British underload their 5.56s
NATO specs will specify the ammo type for consistency, no one country underloads their 556. SS109 is the de facto NATO main runner
QUOTE(heavyduty @ May 31 2016, 12:19 PM)
Ah okay sorry just checked with my sources.ATM moved away from the M193 after the M4 was standard issue and moved towards SS109(local designated G10).M193 is used for training only as there are still stockpiles of it.The US still have M193s in huge quantities in case of emergencies.
Optimum no.not so hot with the 1:7 M4 twist.ATM used some of the earlier models of the AR family.Vietnam war era stuff.M193 made by SME ordnance during that time were highly regarded(can't say the same for current stocks)
QUOTE(Fat & Fluffy @ May 31 2016, 03:32 PM)
waa.. means the same round was used during the aug era... lol, i see... probably wataniah using it
have not seen any us troops using it during joint exercises... heard they say older ones are sold to civi (surplus) and national guard units of smaller states still using it too.. not too sure whether they are disposing it via the law enforcement depts..
i see, i thought MilitaryMadness says the m4 msia is designed based on current ammo issued...
haih... diff ammo type keep have to tukar2 gas port
Ammo can be stored for 50 years and it's still fine.
M193 is still being manufactured in the US as alot of civilian shooters use them. Alot of places don't allow steel core (or rather magnetic ammo) so M855 cannot be used.
LEO in the US normally dont use military rounds as bullet technology has progressed light years ahead. Since LEO are not bound by the Geneva convention, most will use bonded expanding ammo. Same goes for pistol rounds, no one uses ball rounds. Only during training ball rounds are used. For duty or SD, load the more expensive stuff.
For example, 77gr SMK (MK262 Mod0) costs around $0.80 per round for surplus and >$1 for brand new in box ammo. So your 1 magazine of good stuff will easily cost you RM100.This post has been edited by miuk: Jun 2 2016, 06:10 AM