Dear Master,

I have a queries on the housing problem.

I have bought an apartment last 2 years ago, it is under Freehold Master title. Now, the apartment community informed me that the apartment can change to Freehold Strata title. They have appointed a lawyer firm to do this. But I am more prefer to get my SNP lawyer to handle this therefore I am asking the appointed lawyer firm to give me the developer letter on this.

Today, I have able to call the appointed lawyer firm and asking the developer letter on the transfer title.
She told me that she already get the apartment geran, now she got runner able to get developer director to sign the letter then send to my loan bank to change the master to strata. After the geran change to my name then will give to loan bank to keep.
I got told her about I have SNP lawyer, she says she go to high court to get the documents, so she dont think she can pass the case to others lawyer to do it.

FYI, the apartment developer office is no more longer in business but the developer boss still able to contact.

I actually don’t understand what she is talking about. Anyone here can give me advise? I am like give money to appointed lawyer firm without seeing any evidence of the transfer title

master title means all apartments under one geran

for individual, its call strata ... strata title holder, cannot simply modify the outlook of the building

What is the procedure to change to strata actually?

the lawyer will do, you will receive a notification once it is successfully done..

To double confirm, u can bring the notification letter to ur bank to verify later..

Your task is to wait and verify it later with ur bank

or u can check with ur management office. Ur property management office will request IC and some SNP documents later from you....

But my SNP lawyer keep mentioned if no letter from developer, need to take extra caution

usually as far as I know...

the developer will issue a letter citing that the strata title is ready and they have appointed lawyer to do for all owners.
however they will also specified that IF any owner wants to appoint their own lawyer to do so, please tick the right box at the attached letter and deadline is given before returning the signed letter back to developer.

am not sure how other developers do so.

yes you are right. My developer also give us letter say strata title is ready.

TS just wait their letter.

Nicole,
Two things I notice here.
1. "They" have appointed a lawyer firm to do this.
"They" referring to the developer or the community?

2. developer's office is no longer in business.

No doubt in normal circumstances the developer should write to inform about the issuance of the strata title, but in the case where the developer " is no longer in the business", it is not surprised that a third party has been arranged to perfect the transfer.

If I were to be in the same scenario, my priority is to get the strata title transferred to my name and charged to my financier (the bank), given that the developer "is no longer in the business". I will :

1. check it out whether the title is in the possession of the lawyer firm's possession or they are authorized to collect.
2. Their fees.
3. Others have done it?

This post has been edited by SAHM: May 17 2016, 01:08 PM

From my understanding this related to cases where developer did not put in application for strata title division. Worst part is developer is no longer around.

Therefore the current JMB is the one seeking avenue for strata title and have appointed a solicitor firm to act on it.

In the event this is the case, it will need to be handled by the appointed solicitor since individually this cannot be done by respective individual unit owners. That is why the mentioning of obtaining court approval in this case.

First procedure and priority is to get the master title divided into individual strata title. Then only transfer and charge can take affect.

Meaning now even without official letter, i still can proceed to pass the case to the so called appointed lawyer to do it?

They is referring to the apartment community

Getting confused... I thought Nicole is talking about strata title is issued.

@nicolelim28

Please check with the lawyer , is the strata title of your unit issued? Get a copy of the strata title to confirm.

Otherwise, like what boon mentioned, if it is in the process of trying to apply for strata title.... Long way to go then.

I guess you are talking about the JMB?

Come to worst, what is the impact if i don't bother the MOT, just let the apartment under Master title?
My Unit will be taken by developer in future?

If you are talking about the MOT, it means strata title is issued. Get it transferred to your name to avoid future trouble as the developer is no longer active. Since they can still be contacted to sign the MOT etc, better do it now.

The consequences of not getting the title transferred? You are not the registered owner and you have problem in selling, especially so if you can't get the developer to sign MOT in future.

No, your unit won't be under master title if strata title is issued, but the strata title is registered under the developer's name.

The house is still yours. You will face problems or hassle especially when you want to sell. It migth be a double transfer (which take longer time ~ 1 yr +/-) or direct trasfer if u are lucky..

Once the strata is ready. Just get it transfer to you. You get a title on your own with your name written on it.

Look, master title usually involve when developer want to develop the area. It does not only applies to Strata or non-strata, it applies to individual title as well.

After developer finished developed, then developer will applies for sud-division/amalgamation/sub-partition for the lots before land office issue new title. (new rules/laws in place today trying to prevent this happen)

Most cases where developer bankrupt before application complete, the land titles still under master title. To apply for Strata Title is the right thing to do by JMB.Therefore, Jabatan Insolvensi Malaysia will take over and hand over the case to High Court. High Court will approve, and appoint someone (sometimes some other developer) to handle the case. Some where the community already matures with JMB, they will proceed on their own.

I do not see why you are so concern about your SNP lawyer, it is obvious he/she does not know anything about Title. After approval, the bank still owns (since you took loan) the unit and thus will follow to new title as well. So, it does not matter who handle the case for you as long as the appointed lawyer can get approval from land office.

So in short is, when the appointed lawyer show me the land office approval letter then I can proceed? My concern is now I don’t know the appointed lawyer, she just told me she can handle and ask me pay. Without any documents, I feel unsecure to pay for MOT

I see. I can see your concern. Perhaps, you want to have more documents as prove. Confirm with JMB. The approval letter from land office usually comes with fees mentioned (total).

How to Confirm with JMB? Can guide me? Sorry, i am lack of knowledge for this

you should have JMB office, right? The community office at your apartments. There should be an office within your apartment's premise.

Yes, there are management office in my apartment

Ask them lolz. They appoint the lawyer mar. They should know.

From my read strata title application is not applied or initiated by developer and hence JMB is involved (in her word: apartment community). To me it seems that developer is no longer around, and no subdivision application to the land office; therefore JMB has taken charge and appointed solicitor to act of behalf to apply for subdivision. This was from my read where she mentioned specific lawyers and also high court.

Seems that now title is out i.e. subdivision completed but I do not get how MOT perfection can be done without the owner i.e. nicolelim28 have not signed the MOT forms.

From my read, I deduced this means the appointed solicitor by JMB has prepared all the relevant forms where the previous developer director (which I presume is also the land owner) has signed and consented on the MOT. What is left is only for the owners to sign then subsequently proceed for the perfection (MOT duty to be paid).

@nicole28
If my above read is true, then it does not matter whether it is the appointed lawyer or your own appointed lawyer executes the MOT perfection. MOT stamp duty is fixed tiered by the current market price of the property. Only difference is the miscellaneous legal fees incurred. Actually by appointing your own lawyer may incur more costs and also may delay the perfection because then your appointed lawyer will need to request all the documents from JMB appointed lawyers to vett through before executing the MOT.

If you are close with your intended appointed lawyer, you may ask his/her opinion. But first, confirm the situation with JMB whether it is like what I have illustrated.

From what i read on all the message, i think you should check on the following:-

1) In previous, did the developer submitted the strata title application to Land Department?

2) If not, any letter or documentations allow JMB to proceed the application?

3) If the Master Title still charged to bank, there must be some sort of arrangement between appointed lawyer and bank where bank need to temporary discharge on the master title, there will be some sort of undertaking between the lawyer and bank where most of the case when title issued, only bank lawyer can collect the title, then they will lodge private caveat into the individual title.

4) However, if the master title is free, then title will be collected by the lawyer on-behalf of JMB. However, if there is any private caveat charge to the title for individual unit, those title will be forwarded to the bank safe keeping, until the owner clear their loan.

5) If the application just about to submit, the situation become even worst, Land Department imposed a rule to change the "syarat" in the master title to be more specific prior to issue the strata title. For example, Tanah ini hendaklah digunakan untuk maksud bangunan perumahan bagi tujuan apartment sahaja[I][U].

6) If now just to issue the title and transfer to your name, it will be good for you to check on the common property listing and share unit, this will affect your payment of sinking fund and maintenance fees.

7) Also, pls check is there any accessories parcel allocate?

8) Make sure all the information in the strata title is correct, unit no, name and so on.

Hope this can help you.

This post has been edited by ulala2: May 19 2016, 10:52 AM

Isn't that's normal where bank charges on master title will follow to all individual title automatically during application? The Land Office will query, but as long as there is letter of concern from bank, the application can continue.

From my understanding, the strata title application will not get approval from the Land Department when it still charged to bank. The master title must be free, however private caveat is allow.

The private caveat only take effect when changing of "syarat" in the master title.
TQ

Nicole,

Ask them for a copy of the strata title.

Get a quotation / estimated bill (need not show the details of your property and the legal firm's name.) Post it here, so that we know exactly at what stage you are.

The more you read the more confused you are.

If the strata title is issued, and you are about to get the title transferred but not comfortable to pay the legal fees + disbursement, then ask whether you can pay the stamp duty later as this is the most expensive item in the invoice. Once the notice to pay stamp duty is out, pay to your lawyer immediately to avoid penalty.

Nicole,

People here are getting confused with your scenario, ie

Either.
1. strata title has not been issued. It is in the process of submission and application for strata title (from master title to strata title);

Or

2. strata title is issued, (irregardless the process that went through), and you are considering whether to go to this lawyer ("appointed by the community") to perfect the transfer and charge.

Get this right or you will be reading wrong information.

I got case in Selangor where bank charge follows from Master Title to all 3 strata titles (large area)

As i mentioned, there will be some undertaking between bank and lawyer in order to do that.
For example, when title issued, only bank lawyer to collect, subsequently, they lodge and charge back the title.

Can you elaborate on what you mean in point 5) above? From my understanding, transition from master title to strata title, everything remains the same except individual owners now have separate titles. What is this change in "syarat" about? Does it happen in every application from master title to strata title? Thanks

This is fren of mine from developer side told me, recently, Land Department WP & Selangor imposed this condition prior to issue the strata title application.

His case as follow:



This steps normally take about 3 months or more to complete, means strata title will be further delay.

This post has been edited by ulala2: May 19 2016, 12:39 PM

I agreed on it, since I have many question marks now.
So now I should ask JMB on the confirmation on the 1 or 2, correct?

Ask JMB or better still, ask lawyer. If lawyer can give you a copy of the strata title, your answer is absolute.

Got a feeling, should be scenario 2, ie, strata title is issued. Won't go into details here.

OK, will ask lawyer when meet up with her on next Sat.
Thanks for valuable advise

No. It doesn't happen in all the cases. My job involved directly in the process of application, issuance, transfer and charge of title to purchaser and bank respectively.

In fact, I am confused and have questions on the points mentioned regarding the process. Anyway, don't wish to confuse Nicole further,

You are most welcome.

Thanks for the info.

I received a letter for perfection of transfer from developer, in the letter itself there is an appointed lawyer by the developer, just wondering if I must use this appointed lawyer or can I engage my lawyer who did the S&P for me when I bought subsale previously for this perfection of transfer?

Thanks

you can use any lawyers to do so.
if you use the original SPA lawyer, they are suppose to give you a discount.
however, if you have personal legal contacts, the discounts can also be arranged among accordingly.

Just wondering is it very complicated to perform this perfection of transfer and charge actually? Was thinking if it is possible to do it ourselves and save on the legal fees?

The bank wont give approval.

How about perfection of transfer? Can do it ourselves as this doesn't involve bank?

Normally perfection and registration of charge are done together. If you just do the perfection first, bank interest is not protected. Registered owner can then sell property without the bank approval.