I plan to get a new system and aware that PCIe SSD such as M.2 is easily 4x as faster in reading speed. But the price is 3x as much.
I wonder if it is worth to buy PCIe SSD (2500+MB/s reading) just for the Drive C (OS, application loading time etc)? Will I actually notice any differences if I just buy normal SATA based SSD (around 500+MB/s reading).
I do aware reading speed is about 4x more... But I wonder in real-life got much differences. Processor wise planning on i7.
Do hope the experienced guru here can share their view.
pcie ssd is speedier than sata ssd in many areas, except for common use, in which case you don't really notice the differences. yeah it depends on your usage.
imo it's better to spend on 4x of ssd capacity than 4x speed for most users. however, if you're an enthusiast, you know what you want
Well, the SSD will solely be used as boot drive + application loading.
What I wanted is... Impressive OS loading time that I can smile, as well as speedy launching application that make me proud.
Hope you know what I mean...
Just that I do not know what is the actual differences... Will be 4 sec vs 5 sec? 13 sec vs 14 sec?
If it is like 10 sec (PCIe SSD) vs 15 sec (SATA SSD) for loading windows + whatever stuff, then yes, it worth la...
So far I think if can more than 30% in actual performance then sure go for PCIe. If 20% only maybe can consider also... But if 10% only... Forget about it.
if im not mistaken, pcie ssd vs sata ssd will be +-10sec difference in booting...m.2 will be between pcie ssd and sata ssd
QUOTE(Ahmaz @ Apr 24 2016, 02:51 AM)
I think the boot time will be negligible. Win10 on SATA SSD and it takes me about 10 seconds to boot to Windows.. it'll probably be around 7 seconds with M.2
If SATA SSD 10 seconds can become 7 seconds using PCIe SATA, it worth the money already...
I've used both SATA + NVME SSD The difference between both is negligible as not a lot of apps / games can utilize NVME
Windows 10 Cold Boot Time (Fast Boot Enabled) Single HyperX SAVAGE 240GB : 9 seconds Dual HyperX SAVAGE 240GB RAID 0 : 15 seconds Samsung 950 PRO 512GB : 3 seconds (I kid you not)
But it all comes down to your pocket If you can afford NVME, go for it If you think an NVME SSD is too expensive, then go for SATA SSD
Wow... Hahaha.. That's the exact info I need... PCIe SSD here I come...
Nice - but what are you going to use your machine for?
Normal usage. Just kind of pissed of with my current slow system and want to minimise 'wait'...
QUOTE(Yottabyte @ Apr 24 2016, 09:12 PM)
just to make you smile, why not. ensure to buy pcie nvme-based ssd, and plug it to pcie slot that connected direct to CPU, not thru chipset. that's all. side note: since OS have hibernate mode for quite some time, it makes boot-time is not so crucial anymore. tangible benefit maybe faster game loading time and for video editing. that's all.
QUOTE(sHawTY @ Apr 24 2016, 09:38 PM)
When booting Windows, the motherboard have to load the RAID driver & instructions first But once you're in Windows, everything will be faster than a single SAVAGE
Speaking from my personal opinion & experience using many types of SSD, boot time doesn't really matter, what matters most the loading time for applications & games once you're inside of Windows
But with NVME SSD's, you can have both
Excellent... Now I am thinking of either 250GB or 500GB. 250GB is more than what I need. But if 500GB can use for some large file storage that need faster read time
This post has been edited by chanhin: Apr 25 2016, 01:19 AM
You don't even need an i7 - heck you don't even need a PCI-E SSD.
Unless if your needs call for lots of I/O performance (generally virtual machines) - getting a PCI-E SSD is pretty much showing off big benchmark scores rather than tangible benefits.
If your machine is a HDD-based system, a SATA based SSD will improve your machine overall responsiveness, even if the board is not SATA III capable. For average users - the priorities when choosing a SSD goes something like this:
Capacity > Performance = Reliability (about the same priority as performance) Most mainstream SSDs should give you decent boost in terms of responsiveness. My friend has a SSD-based gaming machine (which I built, with a 840 EVO SSD) and the machine remains very responsive even with multiple startup programs.
If you're trying to break nerd record, it probably matters as opposed to having a standard SSD.
But if you're just booting up your PC to type a Word document, or play Steam games, a few miliseconds faster makes zero real-world difference.
It would make a greater difference if you saved that PCIe SSD money and spend it to take your GF to Tioman or something.
Hahaha... But from the members comments here the improvement is much more than 1 second...
QUOTE(sHawTY @ Apr 26 2016, 01:42 PM)
Guys, just let him decide lar
As I've said earlier, it all depends on your wallet, if your wallet is thick enough, go for NVME If not, just go for normal SSD will do
Some people think RM1500 for a 512GB SSD is too expensive Some people think it's just a small amount for a decent upgrade
I on the other hand got the 950 Pro for free so it really doesn't matter LOL
Now I am thinking if I should buy 256GB or 512GB.
If buy 256GB PCIe SSD, it will be used solely for drive C. Then buy another 4TB WD blue as Drive D. And if later need faster speed for large file access, can buy another 512GB or 1TB SATA SSD. If buy 512GB PCIe SSD, I will also buy 4TB WD as Drive D. Then when I need faster large file loading, I will put into Drive C with the 512GB PCIe SSD. But worry about the SSD life span.
QUOTE(Najmods @ Apr 26 2016, 08:58 PM)
It's true we should let him decide what he going to buy, but like chocobo7779 said for normal use a normal SATA SSD is fast enough. For example my Samsung 840 Evo boots in 7 seconds. Cold boot at that
But since he argue that from 10 second to 7 seconds means 30% improvement which well worth it, but on the flipside 3 seconds for 3x the price is...well I would rather buy something else with that money.
Well... FYI my current desktop is 9 years old core 2 system with DDR2 and as you expected, slow boot up and application loading. I am kind of tired of waiting... In Hokkien, we said TL in waiting...
Some more member here mentioned for booting windows alone, the PCIe SSD is actually faster more than 2x as compare to SATA based...
Now left one component unknown... The CPU cooler... It seems all the coolers that I used to know like large Zalman no longer sold... Any good recommendation for cooler? Requirement is rather simple and practical;
(1) Low temperature (2) Easy to clean (expect cleaning every 3 months) (3) if possible, low noise... (4) possible high reliability?
Seriously - that 1 second isn't worth spending megabucks, considering that performance will be only viable on very high I/O loads such as virtual machines (I have ran multiple virtual machines via VMWare Workstation - the high disk usage often becomes the bottleneck)
Half the boot time of a regular SATA based SSD is just not worth it IMHO considering I have been used to deal with minutes of boot time...
For a cheap LGA775 cooler, consider the Hyper TX3 EVO - however please do measure your case for clearance as it might not fit.
You don't even need i7s for regular use - heck even a Celeron can do the trick (seriously). Modern CPUs are way overspecced for small tasks such as word processing and documents.
You can spruce up a cheap Core 2 system with a SSD - I can guarantee you'll never change your machine. I did a SSD upgrade to a Core 2 machine and the difference is just enormous compared to HDDs.
Note that SSD lifespans are very long and they can exceed the lifecycle of a regular PC. Samsung even estimates their 840 EVO can last about 7 years with 20GB of writes per day. I highly doubt that you will reach that amount of writes in a regular computing environment.
Of course - it is always a good idea to buy SSD from a reputable brand. Reputable ones usually use high quality flash memory and controller which should give you good lifespan and performance.
Looking for either i7 6700 or 6700k now... But worry about 6700k temperature...
Why do you still insist of getting a 6700? You don't even need that much CPU performance.
Are you planning to overclock? If no, even a Xeon E3 will do the trick.
You still need to define usage as well - what applications are you plan to run, and how you are going to use them.
Well... My last system last me 9 years... This new desktop should easily last me 6 years at least.
Most of the time I do not need high processing power. However, when I do, I need to run for full speed for few hours to about 1 week. If CPU is 20% faster, I think I can save 20% time. It is important when I am running simulation where I can see the result faster.
QUOTE(soultaker @ Apr 28 2016, 05:15 AM)
Since you are using for normal usage, i5 will do. save money if you can. As for SSD, SATA will do the job just fine. What I can recommend is buy Samsung 850 Evo SSD. There's a reason why Samsung SSD a bit expensive compared to others. Owned Samsung 840 Evo SSD on laptop and Samsung 840 Eco SSD on PC and both performed well. The speed is fast enough and just nice. Afraid that if you using faster SSD, your brain can't keep up with the speed and later you become blur what to do since everything so fast.
IMO, 6600k and 6700k with differences of less than RM500 is not much since I am going to use it for many years. Not to mention I am willing to invest around RM400 for a cooler.
Thus for long run + expensive cooler, i7 seems the way to go...
QUOTE(sHawTY @ Apr 28 2016, 08:31 AM)
For that budget, I'd suggest you to go with AIO liquid cooling AIO liquid cooling provides much more benefits over huge-ass air cooling
With AIO liquid cooling, you will get these: 1. Bigger headroom for you to work around the CPU 2. No "motherboard bending" issue 3. Less dust in the casing 4. Depending on the model that you're buying, stable idle & load temperatures 5. No worries about the heatsink breaking the motherboard when you move the computer around
Any recommendation? Reliability come first of course.
Really thanks for so many advises. It open my mind with more directions...
QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Apr 29 2016, 12:36 AM)
Do you plan to overclock? If no - then there's no point going with a K series chip.
Save yourself some money and get a 6700/Xeon E3 and put the money elsewhere, such as a SSD/CPU cooler.
There's no such thing as futureproofing - the only thing you can futureproof is the PSU and the case, but that can be changing over time. icon_idea.gif
(1) I hate high temperature (2) The most OC can gain is 10%? 20%? When there are needs for faster speed (maybe 5 years later), why not get new system that at least 2x as fast. Due to works, I am more familiar with servers and had I used lots of servers (mainly Linux/Unix) for the past 10 years with heavy processing and found similar priced servers improve 2x to 3x every 3 years. After 5 years, new servers can make old one look stupid, end up no choices to dispose as space is $$$. I assume desktop might has similar improvement rate as now all processors are solely Intel domain.
The simulation that take time is for experimental DSP for audio and imaging. The early codes that full of debugging info are very inefficient during proof of concepts and very slow. And usually are single threaded.
QUOTE(horns @ Apr 29 2016, 12:46 AM)
that noctua 3krpm pwm fan is very loud at full speed. (1x is already loud enough; i have 2x; it's no joke) you need a fan controller to slow them down. imo 2krpm pwm ppc is better.
I was thinking of that brand... really loud? Hmm... Any suggestion on not too loud type?
QUOTE(soultaker @ Apr 29 2016, 12:51 AM)
You have two option: 1) You can buy highest spec you can afford and stick with it for 5+ years. 2) Buy according to your requirement now and save the money for future upgrade later.
I guess you are no 1 type. Since you have the budget, you should know what to buy. Just don't forget to balance between MOBO, RAM, GPU and PSU.
If follow this direction, I will get RM1400 6700k (will start with underclock and undervoltage in order to get my desired temperature) + RM400 noctua. Over time will increase the speed... Not sure if it really make sense...
or 6700 without k better?
QUOTE(chocobo7779 @ Apr 29 2016, 12:59 AM)
Note that futureproofing is not throwing lots of money and expecting it to stick for years:
Conversely you don't buy cheap hardware in a sense that you can always upgrade later - that is not futureproof as well.
Essentially the point of this video is to buy the hardware you need to fit the needs now, not at a later time. An analogy would be something like this: ...
Initially I was thinking on Rm1200 6700 without the K + RM400 noctua
But I like your idea. It seems I should just buy what I need to use now? RM472 i3 6100 + using free stock fans? I think it might actually sufficient and should be faster than my i5 Laptop. You guys aware desktop processors are way faster than laptop right?
Good motherboard -> I am thinking of RM800 GIGABYTE Z170X GAMING 3. Well, I am not even gamer and not planning to have graphic card for start. But I like the board.. Haha Sufficient RAM -> 2x Value 16GB = 32GB - If one spoilt and under warranty, the other one is sufficient for me without interruption. Fast Drive C -> Rm860 SSD PCI-E 256GB - It will allow me to get insane boot time and application load time as compare to current mechanical HDD. Finally I can get rid of "wait... wait... wait..."
Then in coming 2 or 3 years... 2018 maybe... and upgrade to the fastest CPU that time (another 40% faster than 6700k?) for socket 1151 + invest on good fans. Budget RM2k for upgrade later. Make sense? It is based on assumption Intel will produce faster processor for 1151. 10nm core maybe?
Here is the current price from C-Zone; CORE I3 6100 (2C/4T) RM472 CORE I5 6400 (4C/4T) RM758 CORE I5 6500 (4C/4T) RM827 CORE I5 6600 (4C/4T) RM928 CORE I5 6600K (4C/4T) RM991 CORE I7 6700 (4C/8T) RM1272 CORE I7 6700K (4C/8T) RM1431
So if that's the plans? What's the suggestion on getting first processor? i3 6100? i5 6400?
If this is the plan, does it make sense that I should go for i3 because in 3 years time, I am going to dispose it. Thus should not invest so much. Rm472 is still ok.
Or I should just get 6700 without k + RM400 noctua? Then when I need faster performance in the future (5 years?), just get new system that offer at least 2x as fast? I assume 5 years later will have DDR5 that time with PCI express v 4 + SATA5. So even with SATA (v5), SSD is fast enough.
Well.... Basically I am pretty much decided on other components except on the processor... Abit ding-dong here and there.
QUOTE(Vannus @ Apr 29 2016, 07:05 AM)
I suggest go for 512gb 950 pro m.2 pcie. Dont buy 256gb. Few games installed and thats it full. for me i 512gb m.2 pcie for c drive and apps. And a 512gb sata ssd like evo for movies and data on secondary drive. Put in together i7 6600k and a 32gb ram ddr4 with a gtx1080 8gb. Its just perfect will last you at least 5 years, you have enough vitamin c hehe
I have laptop and desktop (windows based) for years... My drive C (OS + application) always use less than 100GB. Well, I dun install much and I am not really gamers.. Not planning to get graphic card as well for start.
Thus I think the Samsung 950 pro 256GB is more than sufficient. Since the mboard of my choice has 2x M.2, maybe in the future when these SSD is cheaper in 3 years time, I will get another one. Who know RM1k can buy 1TB PCIe? And make it new Drive D.
This post has been edited by chanhin: Apr 30 2016, 01:08 AM
as for your expectation to upgrade to a much faster mainstream cpu with the same mobo in 3 years, well, lie chocobo7779 pointed out, intel focus on power efficiency (cpu speed is kind of staying the same for several generations already) also, i think the cpu socket for future cpu will change most likely, hence incompatible to skylake cpu.
imo you should just go for whatever highest that you feel comfortable. if you go for xeon, check if the cpu has built-in igpu, if not you need a descrete gpu.
THanks for sharing. When see the fans going high RPM make me unconfortable..
I always like processor like 6700T with low power.
just to make you smile, why not. ensure to buy pcie nvme-based ssd, and plug it to pcie slot that connected direct to CPU, not thru chipset. that's all. side note: since OS have hibernate mode for quite some time, it makes boot-time is not so crucial anymore. tangible benefit maybe faster game loading time and for video editing. that's all.
Life is making us smile right?
QUOTE(sHawTY @ Apr 24 2016, 09:38 PM)
When booting Windows, the motherboard have to load the RAID driver & instructions first But once you're in Windows, everything will be faster than a single SAVAGE
Speaking from my personal opinion & experience using many types of SSD, boot time doesn't really matter, what matters most the loading time for applications & games once you're inside of Windows
But with NVME SSD's, you can have both
I suspect most consumer system do not have dedicated highend RAID card. Maybe just use software RAID?
i7 6700 with Hyper 212X Gigabyte Gaming 3 - I was thinking of Gaming 7 for its HDMI 2.0. But later gave up as I thought just matter of time I will get a graphic card that has HDMI 2.0. 32GB RAM - Should be sufficient for now Samsung 950 Pro 256GB - Really fast man... No jokes. I learn that not all SSD are built the same Window 10.1
So far so good. Whole system damn silent... I can hardly tell if it is on.
haha, you sure buy for your happiness as your spec doesnt show that you're a normal user, but still, your money anyway
I saw some system in the shop with the gigantic D14 heatsink installed. It was crazy... And those expensive graphic card one can reach RM3k... crazy... My standard... use built in one enough...
This post has been edited by chanhin: May 7 2016, 01:38 AM
It's cooler master 212x, the fan is great, 7x cfm, it keeps my cpu cool and around 60C on full load. and when idle it's around 38C to 42C depends on room ambient temp.
Yea, just wondering when the SM961 will be release. Lets keep an eye on the release. actually sata SSD is also doing well here, bootup time and loading is just a quick. Not sure can get significant gain or not after switching to nvme ssd.
My 212x only one fan. You add-on extr fan? How to fit?
Worth to add extra fan? How many lower temperature you manage to get?
Apr 23 2016, 10:49 PM, updated 10y ago
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