Degree setback upsets grad teachers

By SYED AZHAR

PETALING JAYA: Graduates teachers who studied overseas are claiming that the Education Ministry has short-changed them in terms of salary and recognition of their qualification.

Slightly more than a hundred teachers, who are caught in this predicament, have been suffering in silence for over a decade as their honours degrees have been downgraded to the level of a general degree.

One teacher, who declined to be named, said she had an honours degree from an American university, and was surprised that her degree was treated as a general degree.

"Even my salary is the same as that of a general degree holder. I am not looking down on my peers, but I want what is due to me.

"I am also getting at least RM200 less than local degree holders. What is the purpose of sending Malaysians overseas for studies when local degree holders get better treatment? I cannot understand why this is happening," she said.

Another teacher in Selangor, who also declined to be named, said she was also in the same predicament. She, too, graduated from an American university, with an honours degree in computer science.

"I was told that the ministry would only recognise overseas honours degrees if the holder had more than a 2.75 cumulative grade points average (CGPA).

"I only obtained a 2.6," she said.

The 10-year veteran said due recognition should be given to overseas graduates and that they should be paid arrears.

She also said that her colleagues, who graduated with honours degrees from Australia and New Zealand sponsored by the Public Services Department, were forced to settle their study loans.

"I feel this is unfair and is discriminatory. If this goes on the ministry would be at the losing end as many would opt to leave for the private sector," she added.

National Union of Teaching Profession secretary-general Lok Yim Pheng said the union was aware of the situation.

"There are only a handful of teachers affected. If they feel short-changed they can always complain to the union, the Public Services Department or Education Services Commission.

"The union has written to both these entities and their reply was that they were only following the regulations," she said.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...4044&sec=nation

This post has been edited by tirumisu: Jan 1 2007, 03:28 PM

Ong: Wrong to blame varsities for jobless grads

CLAIMS that the decline in quality of education in public institutions of higher learning had contributed to the increase in unemployed graduates are baseless and inaccurate.

Deputy Higher Education Minister Datuk Ong Tee Keat said the ministry had always stressed on quality education at such institutions to ensure that graduates were ready to meet the challenges of the working environment.

In reply to Datuk Mohd Razali Che Mamat (BN - Kuala Krai), Ong said some factors that contributed to the unemployment problem were new demands in the various industries and the attitude of graduates, including their lack of communication skills.

He said the ministry was working with the Statistics Department to standardise unemployment figures among university graduates as different criteria were being used.

Steps taken to produce more competitive graduates included implementing holistic development techniques, appointing more PhD-qualified lecturers and offering communication and analytical training, he said.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...&sec=parliament

Venture beyond the country, fresh grads told

FRESH graduates and school leavers need to be more adventurous to become entrepreneurs, said Penang Tourism Development and Environment Committee chairman Teng Chang Yeow.

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My thoughts:Fresh graduates taking up entrepreneurship because of insufficient jobs?What a great idea...Our politicians are exceptionally smart ya know. They're now asking us to start our own business as soon as we leave school.[/SIZE]
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He said they should seize the chance of penetrating new fast growing markets such as China, India, Cambodia, Laos and Burma.

"Malaysia has only a 24-million population which is insufficient for the country to have a big strong economy.

"So, entrepreneurs need to tap into foreign markets which are booming. Our country can also benefit in terms of currency exchange," he told newsmen after closing the Career & Franchise Expo 2006 at the Penang International Sports Arena recently.

He also said that instead of lamenting that the government was not doing enough to create more job opportunities, job seekers should take the lead by starting their own business.

"This way, they will also be creating jobs for other people," he added.

In his speech earlier, Teng said the expo offered an ideal platform for job seekers to find suitable careers all under one roof.

The three-day expo, organised for the third year, was jointly organised by Penexpo Events, JCI United Penang and Aiesec in Universiti Utara Malaysia.

A lucky draw was also held in conjunction with the expo.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...17819&sec=north

Start own business, grads urged

GRADUATES from Indian families have been urged to go into business rather than depend on regular jobs, reported Tamil Nesan.

The paper quoted MIC vice-president and Deputy Domestic Trade and Consumer Affairs Minister Datuk S. Veerasingam as saying there were many businesses that could yield great financial rewards.

He said this when opening a business seminar in Penang for young aspiring Indian entrepreneurs.

> Makkal Osai reported Kedah MIC chairman Datuk V. Saravanan as advising parents to work hard at monitoring their children's schoolwork; as a good education can ensure success in life.

"Our children can excel in all sectors when they achieve success in their education," he said when officiating at the prize-giving cere-mony at the Kuala Ketil Tamil School.

> Scientists at a research centre in New Mexico, United States are testing honeybees in the hope of getting new skills for the military, Malaysia Nanban reported.

The scientists feel the bees' keen sense of smell can be put to good use.

They are now training the bees to use their sense of smell to detect explosives!

In the future, the scientists hope, bomb squads need not bring along their bomb detectors but just a box that contains these swarm of bees.

On the home front, the paper reported that heavy rains over the past week had flooded and damaged 30 homes at Jawi Garden, Penang.

Residents claimed that the drainage in the area had not been properly maintained.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...6597&sec=nation

This post has been edited by tirumisu: Jan 1 2007, 03:51 PM

She is an honor student with a CGPA of 2.6 ... I'm suspicious of what kind of honor is that!

Is she not an honours degree graduate? [QUOTE]
Can you clarify this??

we study for knowledge, not for $$$... those study for $$$ will fail.

JPA has a minimum standard which is clearly indicated in the perjanjian. it was there before u sign anything. honours recognition is different in each country. malaysians follow the british system, australia with its own, and american system is always different.

in british system, u can sit for an honours degree without the need to score good grades. ie: all u need is a pass, coz u enrolled in an honours degree in the first place. while in australia, honours is an extension of a degree ONLY offered to top scorers.

i mean come on, 2.6? JPA dont even bother with 2.99, coz there are lots of 3.00pointers running around nowadays. we dont see them making a fuss.

They shouldn't be comparing local universities CGPAs with foreign universities ones.If you want to equate apples with oranges, then why sent students overseas to study every year?Keep them all back home at all means.You can loan at least 2-3 times more students with the same amount of money.

Of course a local graduate with above 3.00 pointers won't make any fuss.That's a no brainer.They somewhat feel that their degrees are at least on par with foreign grads of reputable universities which is not the case.

A third class perhaps?

People always have a misconception that honour degrees are better than regular ones because they are so accustomed to the British education system.

UK universities will award you an honours degree as long as you maintained a certain CGPA score while in Australia and America, you need to make it in the Dean's list or proved that you're among the best in your batch.

Now, these teachers here are not contented because they feel that their foreign degrees are treated no better than general degrees from our local MARA or polytechnics turned universities ones.I don't blame them because after all the money that they've invested in what they believe will give themm an edge over others only to be given a slap back at their faces and the governemt is now asking them to pay up their loans fast.Why all the trouble?

Like the Chinese always say at least they've soaked in salt water.

You have no idea what the went through.There were many factors that could have prevented them from attaining high CGPA scores...strict university policies, tough syllabus, working part time to fund themselves unlike some who are born with silver spoons.

The effort, time and money they put in is by no means lesser than their local graduates.

The thing here is not about the local standards vs the foreign standards. Reputable universities wont even consider awarding an honours for a CGPA of 2.6. That's where the question came in, on what sort of universities does that.

misconception? i think there's no misconception here.

JPA follows a standard established by LAN that is regularly updated. these standard includes a list of credible international universities (rated by bodies like RAE etc). first rule, JPA only sponsors or loans students going to universities rated 4 and above (4, 5 and 5*). for honours degrees from such universities, there is a requirement of 2.7CGPA required.

for local university graduates, now there's a minimum of 3.00. so now tell me, why would local graduates be discriminated? i know, coz i've been through the same system. same requirements applies if u wanna apply for masters or any postgrad studies.

This post has been edited by azarimy: Jan 2 2007, 06:15 PM

Look like TS want to continue his/her previous debate.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopic=383538&hl=

That's just JPA's saving grace reasoning.I doubt the teachers wouldn't have brought up this issue and make so much of noise if they weren't competent.Of course they know what they're in to demand for such things.

i doubt the 2.6cgpa holder knows about it.

Heh it's even more ironic for the case to have made it to our local newspapers.

What the heck, what kind of nonsense uni gives you honors for a 2.60 cgpa?

Also, if you go to the States on scholarship, and only manage a 2.60 then I really must question the criteria of scholarship selection, and your suitability to be a teacher.

I mean, a lot of unis have 2.50 as a minimum passing grade. Even with having to work 30-40 hours/week for my expenses (FAMA scholarship only paid my tuition) I still managed to graduate cum laude.

magna & summa cum laude a bit out of my reach, though.


This also reminds me of a few years back when the then Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir came to have a session with about a hundred Malaysian students from various parts of the US in DC. Instead of engaging in mature and meaningful dialogue in this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, 80% of the questions from the floor were stupid things like "oh I'm on scholarship but the (whatever agency) isn't meeting all my needs, waah waah please help me TM."

IMO..............those r just excuses.

And u r saying as if all the local students dont have comply to strict uni policies, all easy syllibus, and no local students did P-T jobs to fund their studies.

I think it is indeed odd that the government has double standards regarding the pay scale for foreign and local degree holders. If the school's degree was good enough for the government to send JPA scholars to undertake that degree, why is it worth less than a local degree?

I think this is the crux of the issue.

well, good enough to study in doesnt necessarily translate as the product is always good. lets take for example, CAMBRIDGE. top school. if u can get in, JPA will almost definitely sponsor u. but if u graduate with minimum of 2.30, who the heck wanna take u as an employee? i mean if u go 2.70 is good enough, but below that? come on, lets be realistic.

as an employer, i personally would prefer local 3.70s compared to overseas 2.60s. 3.00pointers pun teramatlah ramainya. as i've said before, a lot of 3.00pointers out there arent making any fuss. if JPA sets the limit at 2.70, dont complainlah. if JPA sends a person to a good school, doesnt mean JPA gonna accept him if he barely get through it.

Ok granted she shouldn't be awarded the honours recognition since it seems that the honours awarded by her school seems dodgy at best. But what piques my interest is the next statement.



Does this not say that, no consideration was being made for the results of the degree holder but rather there exists a discrimination in the procedures whereby foreign degree holders are awarded lower salaries than their locallly educated counterparts.

I would again agree to this if these degrees came from unrecognized institutions, but as i've stated earlier, these people came from universities where the JPA saw fit to send scholars to.

I also do think the article was written rather poorly and doesn't quite give a good picture of the issue.

This post has been edited by elhh82: Jan 3 2007, 01:02 AM

well, there are many reasons for getting lesser amount than others. one of the main reason is "elaun kritikal", which surprisingly NOT MANY people know exists. it could be around RM180 - RM400 a month, depending on tangga gaji.

i dunno the actual definition of "elaun kritikal", but to put it simply:

elaun kritikal is an allowance given to employees working in the same field of specialty as their first degree. it's specialized to encourage people of one field to work in the same line. for example:

architecture graduate (like me), lecturing architecture in the university.

math graduate, teaching math/add math in school.

science graduate, teaching science/bio/physics/chemistry.

elaun kritikal have been in JPA since... i dunno... my father's time. if u're an accounting graduate, and u're teaching sejarah or pendidikan moral, u wont get elaun kritikal. so this MIGHT be the case (coz it's usually is). a friend of mine who graduated architecture but teaching landscape architecture didnt get elaun kritikal, can u believe it? but after going up n down JPA, she managed to convince them that landscape IS a part of architecture, so she got the elaun, and reimbursed as well.

anyways, as far as i'm concerned, JPA does not scrutinize between local and overseas graduate. it's the level of their degree that they're concerned with. JPA has a minimum intake level as an employee. if u dont reach minimum, u dont get in. if u do, u'll get in, but grades wont determine ur gaji.

also, do remember that professional courses like architecture, medicine, engineering, accountancy and law always starts 5 tangga (in the tangga gaji) higher than other degrees (under JPA's system).




so in response to the article, it might be she's ignorant and didnt find out for herself. perhaps there IS legitimacy to her claims. but the article did not elaborate.

You just cannot assume CGPA scores like these.A 2.90 average student from UNSW is anytime better than a 3.70 first class degree holder of a local polytechnic turned university.

Have you checked again how much these are paid to study on-campus overseas and how much locals pay for IPTAs?
It's like almost RM100k per year.

Make that 2-3 years and how much their loans will amount to?If you're put in the same situation as them, how would you feel being shortchanged in salary compared to local grads?To make things even worst, your creditor comes after you threatening with legal actions demanding that you pay up what is due of you.

nope, i cant. but JPA doesnt do this either. i've elaborated how and why in my previous post.

i dont represent JPA when i say "as an employer, i personally would prefer...".

boss....... was reffering to the fact that you claimed there were various reasons on why overseas graduates cant score. Again.........those r just excuses. Everone will face hardship during their studying time..........its how u dealt with it that matters.

Performers.....will try to make the best out of any given situation.

Non-performers......will start pointing fingers to everyone and blame everything else but themselves.

There's still one aspect that you had failed to take into consideration here. There's no mention on what type of foreign university that the person had gotten their honours degree from, and there's no reputable university that will give a honours to a CGPA of 2.60