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Photography Canon EOS Family, One Big EOS Family - V59, The White Paladins' Territory!

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LegendLee
post Nov 17 2017, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(ervinlew @ Nov 16 2017, 01:41 PM)
anyone know where can I calibrate my camera? picture taken out from the 5DM2 is softer than my 700D ..
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Can you share the pictures taken ?
Same lens.
Same settings.
Same distance.
Same lighting.

With the 700D and 5Dmk2.

Camera calibration by itself is unheard of.

The camera itself hardly degrade the image in terms of quality unless it's dirty or dead pixels.

Try sending it in for sensor cleaning.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Nov 17 2017, 04:27 PM
Rice_Owl84
post Nov 18 2017, 01:41 PM

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Could be a lens issue. Some lenses are soft on the edges so full frame will get all the soft edges while crop only uses the sharper mid of the lens.
bdrc
post Dec 4 2017, 11:49 AM

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Got a chance to shoot with EOS 700D with EFS 10-22mm, sharing some spams over here:

user posted imageArtis3 コスプレ cosplay showcase - Anniversary 25 Nov 2017 by RICO Lee, on Flickr

user posted imageArtis3 コスプレ cosplay showcase - Anniversary 25 Nov 2017 by RICO Lee, on Flickr

user posted imageArtis3 コスプレ cosplay showcase - Anniversary 25 Nov 2017 by RICO Lee, on Flickr

user posted imageArtis3 コスプレ cosplay showcase - Anniversary 25 Nov 2017 by RICO Lee, on Flickr
MooTikPin
post Dec 5 2017, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(bdrc @ Dec 4 2017, 11:49 AM)
Nice! 👍🏻

teranun
post Dec 6 2017, 12:56 PM

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guys where you think is the best place to buy sigma 17-50mm f2.8 for canon? kldslr got around rm1,200 but import... rm2.8k for sigma malaysia... any cheap alternatives or stores you know? tia for answers and recommendations boss
adam_lss
post Dec 7 2017, 10:38 AM

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QUOTE(teranun @ Dec 6 2017, 12:56 PM)
guys where you think is the best place to buy sigma 17-50mm f2.8 for canon? kldslr got around rm1,200 but import... rm2.8k for sigma malaysia... any cheap alternatives or stores you know? tia for answers and recommendations boss
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1200 vs 2800 is a huge difference la
teranun
post Dec 7 2017, 01:05 PM

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so better the import lah boss? so scared haha but the said 1 year warranty then kldslr help me send the item if i want claim warranty but... so far for my other items never have to claim warranty... so careful in using my toy... hahaha happy.gif so boss should be okay even import item??? huhh....?
TrialGone
post Dec 7 2017, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(LegendLee @ Nov 17 2017, 04:20 PM)
Can you share the pictures taken ?
Same lens.
Same settings.
Same distance.
Same lighting.

With the 700D and 5Dmk2.

Camera calibration by itself is unheard of.

The camera itself hardly degrade the image in terms of quality unless it's dirty or dead pixels.

Try sending it in for sensor cleaning.
*
I think got such thing as camera calibration which i believe is used to calibrate camera body to lens paired. And camera can degrade image if got things like AA filter, or if af phase detect on dslr is out of synch (which can be calibrated)
TrialGone
post Dec 7 2017, 05:54 PM

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QUOTE(Rice_Owl84 @ Nov 18 2017, 01:41 PM)
Could be a lens issue.  Some lenses are soft on the edges so full frame will get all the soft edges while crop only uses the sharper mid of the lens.
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A bit of misconception. If the lens is not sharp, it may actually look sharper on FF cause pixel size is bigger, provided if mp count the same on both Sensors. Your scenario of taking only the crop part for sharper corner result only works if lens is super sharp.
LegendLee
post Dec 8 2017, 07:29 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Dec 7 2017, 05:48 PM)
I think got such thing as camera calibration which i believe is  used to calibrate camera body to lens paired. And camera can degrade image if got things like AA filter, or if af phase detect on dslr is out of synch (which can be calibrated)
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Camera calibration with the lens is for auto focus. Camera calibration by itself is unheard off.
A check with manual focus might help determine if it's a focus issue.

AA filter, Bayer filters etc are extremely hardy. Those can last decades if not longer. So while they degrade image quality, they do not degrade more after a few years.

Unless there's fungus growing on the sensor or filter itself, that should not be the problem.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Dec 8 2017, 08:24 AM
LegendLee
post Dec 8 2017, 08:09 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Dec 7 2017, 05:54 PM)
A bit of misconception. If the lens is not sharp, it may actually look sharper on FF cause pixel size is bigger, provided if mp count the same on both Sensors. Your scenario of taking only the crop part for sharper corner result only works if lens is super sharp.
*
Your scenario where fullframe should be sharper than a crop only works if the lens is a very good lens.

Performance of a lens is not constant from the middle to the corners For high end lenses, the drop in performance is negligible.
But for cheap lens, that can be very apparent.
The performance at the edges and corners can be many times worse compared to the centre. Especially at maximum aperture. Any advantage the larger pixel size provided might not be enough to offset this.

Having said that. I believe the issue is due to
1. Comparing new crop camera and older full frame is not just about pixel and sensor size. The image processing plays an important role as well. Newer cameras might produce a more contrasty image.

2. Erwin might be using a cheap zoom lens at the longest focal length will yield bad results around the edges.
To be sure, you can check the MTF curve around the edges. But I'm sure the performance will be worse even considering the larger pixel size.

3. Performance degradation in the same camera over a few years should not happen unless it's damaged(extremely heavy use until the sensor and mount is misaligned for example.) or fungus/dust.

4. 5D2 focusing performance is not good. He has just forgotten how bad it was at missing shots due to focus.

But having said that, I think it's hard to say without knowing the exact lenses used and since he asked this quite some time ago, I assumed it has been resolved.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Dec 8 2017, 08:31 AM
TrialGone
post Dec 8 2017, 08:42 AM

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QUOTE(LegendLee @ Dec 8 2017, 08:09 AM)
Your scenario where fullframe should be sharper than a crop only works if the lens is a very good lens.

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I think you misunderstand something. I said FF looks sharper cause the pixel size is much bigger than smaller sensor of the same mp density. Say if you have 20mp FF and 20mp m43. Then if you cut the FF sensor to the same size as m43, you will have a mp density of say 10mp (not going to bother with math much). That 10mp m43 will look sharper than the 20mp when view normally at "same size like your phone screen" side by side.

Going opposite, If you have a whooping 50mp FF sensor and view 100%, you are going to notice blur all over cause of slightest motion and of course due to the lens unable to resolve such high mp resolution. Part of reason why higher mp count does not equal more detail if not paired with very good lens.

No need to argue too much on this, this test has been performed many times and confirmed. Check out some youtube videos and articles on it with caption FF lens on apsc body.
LegendLee
post Dec 8 2017, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Dec 8 2017, 08:42 AM)
I think you misunderstand something. I said FF looks sharper cause the pixel size is much bigger than smaller sensor of the same mp density. Say if you have 20mp FF and 20mp m43. Then if you cut the FF sensor to the same size as m43, you will have a mp density of say 10mp (not going to bother with math much). That 10mp m43 will look sharper than the 20mp when view normally at "same size like your phone screen" side by side.

Going opposite, If you have a whooping 50mp FF sensor and view 100%, you are going to notice blur all over cause of  slightest motion and of course due to the lens unable to resolve such high mp resolution. Part of reason why higher mp count does not equal more detail if not paired with very good lens.

No need to argue too much on this, this test has been performed many times and confirmed. Check out some youtube videos and articles on it with caption FF lens on apsc body.
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I perfectly understand what you're trying to say.
I'm not saying larger pixel size/pixel density does not play a role. But your assumption implies the lens performs exactly the same at the centre and in the corners.

I'm saying image degradation at the corners taken with a FF with cheap lenses might look worse compared to a cropped camera.

I'm going to remove all the technical details.
As if you're not familiar with it, you may get confused.

Since you refer YouTube videos. I'm going to do the same.

Use a cheap nifty fifty and shoot wide open.
Check the corners. I'm sure the crop will look better.
There are YouTube videos on that. You can check that out.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Dec 8 2017, 10:01 AM
TrialGone
post Dec 8 2017, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(LegendLee @ Dec 8 2017, 08:58 AM)
I perfectly understand what you're trying to say.
I'm not saying larger pixel size/pixel density does not play a role. But your assumption implies the lens performs exactly the same at the centre and in the corners.

I'm saying a lens degradation at the corners on cheap lenses might make it look worse compared to a cropped camera.

I'm going to remove all the technical details.
As if you're not familiar with it, you may get confused.

Since you refer YouTube videos. I'm going to do the same.

Use a cheap nifty fifty and shoot wide open.
Check the corners. I'm sure the crop will look better.
There are YouTube videos on that. You can check that out.
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........since when i talk about corner? I implying overall sharpness of FF lens when used on apsc. I understand the corner blurry part la. I meant don't assume you get better image when pairing FF lens on apsc body simply cause you can cut the blurry corner off. If "wrong" lens paired may result lower sharp image on apsc sensor even with blurry corner cut.

LegendLee
post Dec 8 2017, 10:08 AM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Dec 8 2017, 09:59 AM)
........since when i talk about corner? I implying overall sharpness of FF lens when used on apsc. I understand the corner blurry part la. I meant don't assume you get better image when pairing FF lens on apsc body simply cause you can cut the blurry corner off. If "wrong" lens paired may result lower sharp image on apsc sensor even with blurry corner cut.
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1. Overall sharpness includes sharpness around the corners too. If you're talking about centre sharpness, then you're right.

2. A horrible lens will look horrible regardless.
But again this depends on the lens. Some lens have a huge drop in performance from the middle to the edge/corner. For those lenses, using crop might yield better results.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Dec 8 2017, 10:09 AM
ervinlew
post Dec 8 2017, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(LegendLee @ Dec 8 2017, 10:08 AM)
1. Overall sharpness includes sharpness around the corners too. If you're talking about centre sharpness, then you're right.

2. A horrible lens will look horrible regardless.
But again this depends on the lens. Some lens have a huge drop in performance from the middle to the edge/corner. For those lenses, using crop might yield better results.
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Is not resolve yet, im using a Ef 50mm f/1.4 and Ef 17-40 f/4. but anyhow when the lighting is good the image is tack sharp so the only reason I can think of is that 5dm2 got focusing issue if light is not good enough.
LegendLee
post Dec 8 2017, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(ervinlew @ Dec 8 2017, 12:43 PM)
Is not resolve yet, im using a Ef 50mm f/1.4 and Ef 17-40 f/4. but anyhow when the lighting is good the image is tack sharp so the only reason I can think of is that 5dm2 got focusing issue if light is not good enough.
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Yeap. 5D2 focus is horrible under lowlight.
I've 5d2, 17-40 and I used to have the 50f/1.4.

The camera tends to focus on the bright areas. So if the background is bright and foreground is dark, it's going to fail.

Try using a flash with AF assist. That helps to a certain extend.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Dec 8 2017, 12:55 PM
TrialGone
post Dec 8 2017, 03:27 PM

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QUOTE(LegendLee @ Dec 8 2017, 10:08 AM)
1. Overall sharpness includes sharpness around the corners too. If you're talking about centre sharpness, then you're right.

2. A horrible lens will look horrible regardless.
But again this depends on the lens. Some lens have a huge drop in performance from the middle to the edge/corner. For those lenses, using crop might yield better results.
*
Just ignore the corner for a moment. My explanation on ff lens effect on apsc has little to do with corner sharpness. Just assume image quality is on par from mid to corner.

Besides, you be better of cropping FF picture rather than putting it on apsc just to get middle crop. Or just get apsc lens that is designed and img quality tested on apsc body.
LegendLee
post Dec 8 2017, 04:12 PM

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QUOTE(TrialGone @ Dec 8 2017, 03:27 PM)
Just ignore the corner for a moment. My explanation on ff lens effect on apsc has little to do with corner sharpness. Just assume image quality is on par from mid to corner.

Besides, you be better of cropping FF picture rather than putting it on apsc just to get middle crop. Or just get apsc lens that is designed and img quality tested on apsc body.
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1. Yes I understand what you mean from the very beginning. If you've a lens that is meant for full frame. Then use it at full frame. The larger pixel size makes it easier for the lens to resolve details at higher contrast. I'm not discouraging that. Most of my cameras/lens are full frame anyway.

2. It's just my pet peeves when you ignore corner performance in crappy lens. The reduction in quality is actually way more than what you expect.
Your statement depends on what the photographer is capturing. If it's portrait. Yeah. Ignore corners.

But if it's landscape or other uses where corner is important, that's a different story.

3. Erwin's lens of 50 f/1.4 and 17-40 are alright lens. Just stop down and Corner performance shouldn't be noticeable. So in this case, this shouldn't matter.

5D2 has shitty AF performance in poor light inherently. Nothing can be done to improve the camera performance. Other than using assist lights or change the camera altogether.

This post has been edited by LegendLee: Dec 8 2017, 04:15 PM
TrialGone
post Dec 8 2017, 04:27 PM

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QUOTE(LegendLee @ Dec 8 2017, 04:12 PM)
1. Yes I understand what you mean from the very beginning. If you've a lens that is meant for full frame. Then use it at full frame. The larger pixel size makes it easier for the lens to resolve details at higher contrast. I'm not discouraging that. Most of my cameras/lens are full frame anyway.

2. It's just my pet peeves when you ignore corner performance in crappy lens. The reduction in quality is actually way more than what you expect.
Your statement depends on what the photographer is capturing. If it's portrait. Yeah. Ignore corners.

But if it's landscape or other uses where corner is important, that's a different story.

3. Erwin's lens of 50 f/1.4 and 17-40 are alright lens. Just stop down and Corner performance shouldn't be noticeable. So in this case, this shouldn't matter.

5D2 has shitty AF performance in poor light inherently. Nothing can be done to improve the camera performance. Other than using assist lights or change the camera altogether.
*
I think im going to final explain this now before full blown tech lens war laugh.gif

Im not ignoring corner sharpness. Just pointing out, yet again, that putting FF lens on apsc sensor, instead of solving corner sharpness, may introduce another problem that is drop in overall img quality because some FF lens sharpness is not taken account for apsc mp density. Simple as that. Not sure what is confusing about what I said.

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