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> PCB Audit for Sdn Bhd, Audit

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TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 01:29 PM, updated 4y ago

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Hi,

I got a letter from LHDN for an audit in my company for my PCB monthly payment to the government. I've spoken to my accountant only found out that my company (Sdn. Bhd.) need to pay PCB for monthly deduction from my salary even as a director.

All the while I did not know I need to deduct this as I did not pay for my EPF and SOCSO (taking full salary) and my company is very small size, just a few worker. My clerk and accountant also did not notify me about this every year I file my company tax until I checked with them after I got the audit letter.

What should I do and what will the compound charges be like? I'm pretty sure I'm going to get fine this time but is there any method to reduce the fine? I really did not know this is a compulsory deduction as my clerk help me to file my income tax every year for all the deduction available and sometime I have to pay my income tax after filing so I thought tax is only paid every year after filing personal income tax.

Hopefully someone experienced can give some advice. Thank you very much.

Edit: my clerk also did not deduct his salary for PCB but got deduct for EPF as he did not know this as well, which end up this problem coming back to the company fault. How will the fine be like?

Edit 2: mainly because the worker I'm hiring is foreign worker and their salary is not within PCB range. Even if it does, I think it does not required to file the PCB for them either, please correct me if I'm wrong.

This post has been edited by IneedHelp345: Feb 22 2016, 01:43 PM
cherroy
post Feb 22 2016, 01:41 PM

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Incompetent admin clerk

PCB, EPF, Socso deduction are the basic of every admin clerk should be knowing.
Even bonuses are subjected to PCB deduction.

Company will be fined for those mistake.

TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2016, 01:41 PM)
Incompetent admin clerk

PCB, EPF, Socso deduction are the basic of every admin clerk should be knowing.
Even bonuses are subjected to PCB deduction.

Company will be fined for those mistake.
*
Yes I understand this consequences, I just want to be ready for any fine that is coming at me upon LHDN coming over for audit. Can I request for fine reduction? And also around how much will the fine be?
lee90
post Feb 22 2016, 01:45 PM

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sorry to say that penalty for wrong PCB calculation has been increased to RM20,000 under Kaedah 17 "Kaedah-kaedah Cukai Pendapatan (Potongan Daripada Saraan) Pindaan 2015"

due to this NEW high penalty, LHDN started to tangkap ppl biggrin.gif , one of my company just kena and will come audit next month.. lets see what happen next.. haha

This post has been edited by lee90: Feb 22 2016, 01:48 PM
TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 01:49 PM

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QUOTE(lee90 @ Feb 22 2016, 01:45 PM)
sorry to say that penalty for wrong PCB calculation has been increased to RM20,000 under Kaedah 17 "Kaedah-kaedah Cukai Pendapatan (Potongan Daripada Saraan) Pindaan 2015"
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Is it possible to make rayuan for reduction? No one in my company know this is compulsory.
cherroy
post Feb 22 2016, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(IneedHelp345 @ Feb 22 2016, 01:44 PM)
Yes I understand this consequences, I just want to be ready for any fine that is coming at me upon LHDN coming over for audit. Can I request for fine reduction? And also around how much will the fine be?
*
Sincere mistaken in calculation may be have a case to ask for reduction, totally no PCB is hard to explain already.
But you can try.

How much, will depend on their audit outcome then.
lee90
post Feb 22 2016, 01:55 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2016, 01:52 PM)
Sincere mistaken in calculation may be have a case to ask for reduction, totally no PCB is hard to explain already.
But you can try.

How much, will depend on their audit outcome then.
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yea i agree.. pray hard
not sure whether can ask for reduction for PCB penalty but for company tax I'm sure you can
thats why a good company accountant is very important, don treat account clerk/executive as your company accountant tho as i know many boss do so tongue.gif

This post has been edited by lee90: Feb 22 2016, 01:57 PM
TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 01:57 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2016, 01:52 PM)
Sincere mistaken in calculation may be have a case to ask for reduction, totally no PCB is hard to explain already.
But you can try.

How much, will depend on their audit outcome then.
*
Thank you for your reply. This is because my company is small sized and employ mainly foreign worker with less than taxable income which is why nobody realize there's is this issue. Hopefully officer from LHDN can give me reduction as I'm ready to pay for the fine but not knowing it is a mistake in the first place.
lee90
post Feb 22 2016, 01:58 PM

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QUOTE(IneedHelp345 @ Feb 22 2016, 01:57 PM)
Thank you for your reply. This is because my company is small sized and employ mainly foreign worker with less than taxable income which is why nobody realize there's is this issue. Hopefully officer from LHDN can give me reduction as I'm ready to pay for the fine but not knowing it is a mistake in the first place.
*
can try explain to them la, i think everything is negotiable? hopefully
TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2016, 01:52 PM)
Sincere mistaken in calculation may be have a case to ask for reduction, totally no PCB is hard to explain already.
But you can try.

How much, will depend on their audit outcome then.
*
QUOTE(lee90 @ Feb 22 2016, 01:58 PM)
can try explain to them la, i think everything is negotiable? hopefully
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Hi, I have another question. What if my director fee is not paid consistently every month? Sometime I take sometime I don't, but by the end of the day in my Borang E and EA got filed with the amount of my total income?

This might be the reason he did not file for my PCB, will this be an offense? I stopped employing my clerk few months ago and now he will not pick up my phone call. I'm trying to find the old files for any CP39 forms. If there's no monthly deduction does the CP39 works the same thing?

I found a CP8D form, what is this for?

This post has been edited by IneedHelp345: Feb 22 2016, 02:33 PM
cherroy
post Feb 22 2016, 02:43 PM

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QUOTE(IneedHelp345 @ Feb 22 2016, 02:31 PM)
Hi, I have another question. What if my director fee is not paid consistently every month? Sometime I take sometime I don't, but by the end of the day in my Borang E and EA got filed with the amount of my total income?

This might be the reason he did not file for my PCB, will this be an offense? I stopped employing my clerk few months ago and now he will not pick up my phone call. I'm trying to find the old files for any CP39 forms. If there's no monthly deduction does the CP39 works the same thing?

I found a CP8D form, what is this for?
*
Bonuses are not paid every month, it still subjected to PCB, so it is same to director fee.

http://www.hasil.gov.my/bt_goindex.php?bt_...sequ=1&bt_lgv=2
QUOTE
Q : How to calculate the MTD for director's fees?
A : In cases where the Director's Fees is paid monthly together with other monthly remuneration, both the relevant amounts must be added together in order to determine the MTD.
For cases where only Director's Fees is paid monthly, the MTD is determined in the usual manner.
Where a director is paid a monthly remuneration and he receives Director's Fees in a lump sum, the MTD is calculated by using the Bonus Formula.
In instances where the director receives only Director's Fees and paid in a lump sum, the relevant amount is divided by the number of months for which the payment relates. MTD is determined accordingly and then multiplied by the number of months in question. E.g. A director receives annual Director's Fee of RM36,000.00, without any other remuneration. Therefore the amount applicable per month is RM3,000.00 (RM36,000.00 / 12). The MTD for RM3,000 is determined and then multiplied by 12.

TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 03:42 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2016, 02:43 PM)
Bonuses are not paid every month, it still subjected to PCB, so it is same to director fee.

http://www.hasil.gov.my/bt_goindex.php?bt_...sequ=1&bt_lgv=2
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Hi,

I just found this from LHDN website. http://www.hasil.gov.my/pdf/pdfam/Jadual_PCB_2016.pdf

I have 3 child and according to this table, I am not applicable to the PCB. I'm taking only 3.5k salary per month. Is this a valid reason for my clerk for not submit the PCB every month?
cherroy
post Feb 22 2016, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(IneedHelp345 @ Feb 22 2016, 03:42 PM)
Hi,

I just found this from LHDN website. http://www.hasil.gov.my/pdf/pdfam/Jadual_PCB_2016.pdf

I have 3 child and according to this table, I am not applicable to the PCB. I'm taking only 3.5k salary per month. Is this a valid reason for my clerk for not submit the PCB every month?
*
You need to look back the previous few year that LHDN want to audit you one, not current year PCB.

Previous few year, tax relief given was much lower than 2016. so threshold of wages needed to pay for PCB generally was lower than YA2016.
azhan82
post Feb 22 2016, 06:06 PM

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QUOTE(IneedHelp345 @ Feb 22 2016, 01:29 PM)

Edit: my clerk also did not deduct his salary for PCB but got deduct for EPF as he did not know this as well, which end up this problem coming back to the company fault. How will the fine be like?

Edit 2: mainly because the worker I'm hiring is foreign worker and their salary is not within PCB range. Even if it does, I think it does not required to file the PCB for them either, please correct me if I'm wrong.
*
Well, as business owner, you need to make sure everything is complied to the law. You can't blame your clerk even tho he/she is incompetent.

QUOTE(IneedHelp345 @ Feb 22 2016, 03:42 PM)
Hi,

I just found this from LHDN website. http://www.hasil.gov.my/pdf/pdfam/Jadual_PCB_2016.pdf

I have 3 child and according to this table, I am not applicable to the PCB. I'm taking only 3.5k salary per month. Is this a valid reason for my clerk for not submit the PCB every month?
*
LHDN is just auditing you cause you end up getting into their radar. Probably cause you took out a loan, bought something expensive or even someone reported you. Could be many reasons. Lol

QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 22 2016, 03:52 PM)
You need to look back the previous few year that LHDN want to audit you one, not current year PCB.

Previous few year, tax relief given was much lower than 2016. so threshold of wages needed to pay for PCB generally was lower than YA2016.
*
If I'm not mistaken, they will check up to 7 years back from date of audit. But as you said, tax relief today is way higher compare to before. Previously it was 2.4k minimum to pay tax. Now its a bit higher.
TS IneedHelp345
post Feb 22 2016, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(azhan82 @ Feb 22 2016, 06:06 PM)
Well, as business owner, you need to make sure everything is complied to the law. You can't blame your clerk even tho he/she is incompetent.
LHDN is just auditing you cause you end up getting into their radar. Probably cause you took out a loan, bought something expensive or even someone reported you. Could be many reasons. Lol
If I'm not mistaken, they will check up to 7 years back from date of audit. But as you said, tax relief today is way higher compare to before. Previously it was 2.4k minimum to pay tax. Now its a bit higher.
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Yes I understand, that's why I'm ok with the fine since it's my mistake in the first place. I just hope to reduce the fine paid since I have no knowledge in this issue at all.

In the letter they are asking to check on my 2012-2014 account only, anyhow after I checked with my accountant and found that I have only offended the clause in year 2012, coz in 2013 and 2014 my salary taken is reduced because of the business not doing well. Hopefully the officer will understand my situation and give me minimal compound.
poooky
post Feb 23 2016, 11:36 AM

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Pay the fine if not too much so they don't investigate more. Many sdn bhds suffer from terrible accounting stuffs.

If huge sum and you got valid points then can fight back to lower fine.

Get a better accountant.

Or better yet do self studies and brush up on relevant areas. can no longer get away claiming negligence.

This post has been edited by poooky: Feb 23 2016, 11:37 AM
Alexlex83
post Feb 12 2019, 07:01 AM

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Hi, so how the conclusion? Today I got the same issues like you. 3 directors for not submitting PCB 2016 & 2017. But personally we did submit n pay annually.

Staff PCB all submitted. Quite a lot of money for penalty. Any recommendation?
Alexcky2
post Feb 12 2019, 06:05 PM

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U should sack ur secretary office as this is their duty to inform u

U are in deep shxt now sorry to say
yklooi
post Feb 13 2019, 01:38 AM

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QUOTE(Alexcky2 @ Feb 12 2019, 06:05 PM)
U should sack ur secretary office as this is their duty to inform u

U are in deep shxt now sorry to say
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hmm.gif do you mean it is the duties of the secretary office (company secretary) to inform the company that directors need to do PCB deduction?

hmm.gif I think, the company secretary may not need to be an accountant (or was an ex-accountant)

he/she is responsible for the completion and timely submission of the company’s annual return and full accounts by the statutory deadline....in which they may have no idea of what the details are.

if confirmed to be the duties of the company secretary to be involved in company payrol & accounting issues....then doh.gif .... i failed in my readings of the duties and responsibilites of a company secretary.



mini orchard
post Feb 13 2019, 06:22 AM

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QUOTE(Alexcky2 @ Feb 12 2019, 06:05 PM)
U should sack ur secretary office as this is their duty to inform u

U are in deep shxt now sorry to say
*
Who to sack .....

Company Secretary?

Chairman Secretary?

MD Secretary?

CEO Secretary?



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