You are misunderstanding how power works.

Volume is LOGARITHMIC, it is not linear. What does this mean for power? It means that power is dynamic in relevance to the volume you're trying to achieve with the speaker. Simply because the receiver is outputting 90w over 2 channels, it DOES NOT mean it is feeding 90w from 20db to 75db (as an example).

Let's take the Wharfedale D12.2 as an example, its sensitivity is 88db @ 2.83v over a 1 meter distance. This means it takes ONE watt, yes ONE watt to reach 88db of volume if you're standing 1m away from the speaker with no reflections (this is why specification numbers SHOULD NEVER be taken as a real world indication because speakers are spec'd in an anechoic chamber).

Trust me, your ears will give up first long before you even reach 90w of usage from the receiver.

So why do people want 500w per channel for a single speaker then? What's the point of mono blocks? Because in the real world, you don't sit 1m from your speaker unless you're doing a desktop setup. Then there are considerations of other drivers within a speaker. Bookshelves are usually 2 ways (tweeter - woofer), so not much needs to be said about them. But towers which are 3 way (tweeter - mid woofer - sub woofer)? Those need power and that's why towers are usually more efficient than their bookshelves counterparts due to coupling of drivers and crossover networks.

You should also understand that the higher the frequency, the less power is needed. This is because the human ears are most sensitive between the 800hz to 10khz region. Reaching 75db around these frequencies requires much less power than reaching 75db at say low bass frequencies in the 20hz region.

Power is a very long and complicated topic. As a beginner, all you need to know is that you shouldn't get caught up with all the hype around power. It's easy to get loss in it because humans always relate to bigger numbers = better.


My opinion is always try and get a sub (well multi subs actually) to couple them with the bookshelves. Let the sub handle the bass and let the bookshelves handle the mids and upper frequencies.

I've never liked to use the audiophile terms of describing sound. To me, it sounds very stupid. "Warm" for example is such a vague term because bass is from 0hz to 300hz. Which part of it is warm lol? It's more straight forward to describe the issue in the round number octaves of frequency range, rather than blanket it with a single term.

The frequency range of a bookshelf is often much more limited than their tower counterpart, so you'd run into physics limitation before you run out of power anyways. That's why I said there's not much more that needs to be said about them in regards to power.

Tower speakers are more efficient than bookshelves because often times, they have MORE drivers than a bookshelf. Let's take the Diamond series as an example again. The Diamond 12.2 is a bookshelf, 2 ways. The Diamond 12.4 is a tower, 3 ways. Because the 12.4 doesn't need to have just ONE single woofer doing all the work from 35hz to 1khz, that eases out the load between 2 woofers instead. The 12.4 also has much larger cabinet to move air and thus it's easier to reproduce higher volumes. That is the reason why it is more efficient than a bookshelf.

I'll have to emphasize again, the bass region is what eats up power the most. Very, very few speakers can do full range 20hz-20khz. That's why individual subs are essential. Earlier you mention you're afraid that your receiver may longer cope with multiple amount of speakers when you move up the multi channel chain. That could be an issue yes. But active subs will take care of that, it will ease your receiver from having to deal with the bass region (which again is where the majority of the power goes to).
So you see, subs aren't just for the boom-boom factor, not at all. Subs are the FOUNDATION of your system. If you have good bass, you are already more than half way there to good music.

You don't have to buy everything at once if budget is an issue. This is a journey, not a buy once and forget it hobby. So it's fine to have your AVR, pair of bookshelfs, and some cables to start off with. What the others and I have been telling here is just knowledge. But you need to experience everything yourself first in order to move further, otherwise it's always just a guessing game.

All my cables in HT room using wireworld SCP 14awg cable now a days. RM15 per meter.

Only the LCR I'm using own DIY with Canare 4s11 for bi-amping.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: May 8 2021, 04:27 PM

Too near.

The point of surrounds is ambiance, you could be hearing too much surround activity over your front LCR. If you can, maybe try mounting them instead. But if you can't, well... I guess, deal with it and just enjoy.

It's more accurate to use an SPL meter to level match.

One note about Audyssey calibration - if you don't place the mic right, the variance between each seat during multi calibration can vary significantly. So I hope you weren't using the dumb card board stand Denon includes with the receiver, but instead using a boom mic stand to hold the mic.

I think you have your priorities wrong.

You should change your front LCR first before anything else if you're intending to change your entire sound system setup. I'm using SVS elevations, they are good height speakers but to be very frank they don't add very much to the experience. In fact I think they're overpriced and on hindsight I'd rather use cheaper in-ceiling speakers instead. Point is, changing your height speakers won't make you notice much of a difference (if any at all) to your overall soundstage.

Unlike height speakers, changing the LCR can amount up to a day and night difference. So place your budget here first is my advice.

As for the sub, there is no contest between a the Polk HTS 10 and a similar sized SVS 10" sub which SVS does not have. The closest is the SB1000 Pro and that blows the Polk HTS10 out of the water, not even a fair fight.

My opinion is that the most optimum way of upgrading is (assuming you continue to use your current set of speakers):
Subs (yes multiple) > minidsp 2x4HD > LCR > then whatever you want after that.

Don't just upgrade because your heart tells you to, upgrade using logic and common sense. You save and learn more at the end of the day.

How big is your room? That is a key component to know on what sub size to get.

You can match different sized subs yes, but you will need measurement tools to gain match and time align them properly. So a calibrated measurement mic (UMIK-1 for example) is mandatory. You will also need quite a bit of time to do this, not a 10 minutes job.

You have to account for the entire space, whatever your living room is open up to (dining area for example). Bass lengths are very long, so you can't just calculate based on the area where the sub is at. 22x10 is on the average side, you may want ported subs instead (PB1000 Pro).

Will recommend ported subs then for sure.

Depends on your budget though, a pair of PB3000 will be very nice for that space and if you don't mind disturbing the neighbors. But if you can't stomach that budget, even a pair of PB1000 Pros or used PB2000s is a good choice.

Sony E6100 is a HTiB. So they use proprietary connectors from Sony.

Theoretically you can just cut off one end of the connector, replace with banana plug. But you must know how to splice cables la.

Emm... that's actually a somewhat misguided way to choose a sub.

Yes, a room size will help determine what sub you'd generally want in it.

But there are more important things than just the overall size of the room like: the shape of the room. Irregular shaped rooms like L-shaped or squares are fairly common in MY, so a single big sub may not be the best choice. Where you sit in relation to the front stage is also important and how many seats you're planning to cover for even bass is also a factor. Multiple smaller subs may actually be a better fit (even if they're sealed).

So you have to mention not just the overall room volume size, but you also have to mention its shape. Are there any irregular walls? How high are the ceilings? Is there a strict position where the sub must be located?

On paper, the PB2000 Pro can cover up to 4000 cubic feet. But that's really just on paper and bass reacts differently to each individual rooms. So it's kinda impossible to just take a word of mouth from someone's experience with a certain sub from their own room because it absolutely won't be the same experience you'll get in your room.

For a room that size, yes dual PB2000 pros are better than a single PB3000. Yes even a pair of PB1000 pros would do very nicely in that room.

The key is to place multiple subs optimally and then EQ them right with a minidsp.

Yes. Sealed subs are absolutely great for movies too.

I have 4 SB3000s and a pair of crowson actuators, no ported subs for me eventhough I can fit them in my room. For movies I have output down to 5hz. Without the actuators, the subs themselves go down to 14hz. So definitely more than enough output.

It's important to understand that you MUST time align and level match multiple subs, so that they play in phase with each other. You must use an appropriate crossover (80hz is NOT always the best setting contrary to popular belief). You should also EQ out big peaks and add a nice house curve. All this is made easier with a minidsp and REW.

It's not that bad. I have tried Hans Zimmer Live in Prague at reference volume before, neighbor can feel some rumbling but it's not too annoying they say.

I purposely reinforced and minimize as much as possible for my HT room. It's not entirely sound proof (no rooms are, unless you're in the middle of no where), but good enough I guess. I don't listen at reference volume very often anyways, the pressure from all that low frequency is insane.

RM4k can barely buy a set of 5.1 and that's for speakers only. An entry level receiver will already cost RM2k.

Suggest to just buy 1 pair of main L and R bookshelf only, a receiver then slowly add on the other speakers when budget is bigger. More speakers is not always better, in fact most times more is actually worse if you cannot even place the speakers properly and treat the room right in the first place.

Not much. Your ringgit sucks. Even all new entry level receivers (2020-2021 models) are also overpriced these days.

Your best bet is to find some clearance 2019 model like a Yamaha RX-V385 for around the RM2k mark. You won't get HDMI 2.1 features of course.

No matter how little space you have, you'll still have space to put a pair of bookshelves.

I'm quite sick and tired of people saying that if space is an issue = buy a soundbar.

If there is space for a soundbar, there is space for a pair of bookshelves. If there's no space for either, well then use headphones. Subs are not always mandatory, it depends a lot on the room size and layout.

Usually I turn off all the wifi, bluetooth, LTE, turn off all background google services, then also place my phone on a stand. Because according to all the audiophiles, if you isolate your source well enough then the sound will improve. I think next I have to change battery also because the stock battery is "noisy".

YPAO is trash for sub PEQ, unfortunately. The most your friend can do to optimize sub PEQ with his A2A is to:

1) Place the sub in the best possible location, especially since he only has 1 sub. Sub location is the most important thing for good bass, so important that it's the number 1 thing to get right first before anything else IMO.

2) Make sure to get a good NEGATIVE gain from YPAO after the initial measurement. The reason is because EVERY receiver can clip the sub signal when the gain is in the positive (above 0db). If the sub is placed in a null position, just because he can't feel enough bass he increases the gain on the AVR - it CAN end up damaging the input on the sub's amp plate. So, never put the gain in +
To achieve a negative gain from the AVR, you have to increase the gain volume on the sub itself first, do the first measurement with YPAO, try and aim for around -5db. It's a little bit of back and forth trial and error, but it's well worth the time.

3) Do more than 1 measurement if he wasn't already doing it. Use the multi-point measurement method, place the mic on a boom arm tripod and measure in varying locations from the MLP (main listening position) while keeping each measurement no more than 1 feet apart.

Contrary to popular myths and believes, speaker and receiver matching doesn't actually mean anything. The reason is because as soon as you enable YPAO, ALL the speakers will be timbre and tonal matched as close as possible to the front L and R speakers. Buy the speakers that sounds good to you, don't buy the speakers because some ah beng told you it sounds super warm, chocolatey or sparkly when matched with <insert brand name> amp.