Respect extends both ways. UW is not GOD. And my conscience is well intact. And we both know the only thing some ppl here see is the blind distorted truth that UW has been spreading all this while.

I started with a simple respectful question and it quickly escalated into what it has become now solely because some fools thought they could sit on their pedestals and pass judgement using Bible quotes which they neither understand nor appreciate as their weapon.

UW can keep deleting my posts and I will keep posting. Lets see how long this lasts. If UW cannot engage in a human discussion, then the only way is to keep ding this.

My posts were deleted cuz I dared to stand up against a cowardly tyrant claiming to be speaking God's word! There is nothing to discuss with a hard headed hypocritical Christian wannabe. Its losers like him who disgrace Christianity!

Important question to all of you. Do only Christians go to Heaven?

Well, I don't presume to generalise if all Christians do. And I might not be the best person to answer this since I believe there is no such thing as going to heaven [there is something better]. XD But I am a minority.

But in general [not about going to heaven but regarding salvation], most Christians believe that only no morality or religion in this world can save men from their sinful nature. Only, Jesus' death and resurrection has accomplished salvation and fulfils God's righteousness.

That is, God's gospel of grace can save men (Acts 4:12: And there is salvation in no other, for neither is there another name [the person of Christ] under heaven given among men in which we must be saved).

But there is some who have the attitude that we simply cannot second-guess or speculate on how God might deal with special cases.

My question requires just a simple YES or NO answer. Not a theological response.

Why not a theological response? Why yes or no?

What is your purpose in asking then, if I may ask? Is it to understand something?

That's the problem with Christians. They always think with the siege mentality like the Malays in our country. Always so damn worried about giving simple answers.

I asked a simple question and I expected a simple answer. There is no question about my intention, my purpose, my hidden agenda or whatever.

Don't dramatize simple questions.

Lol, please calm down .... you sure you are not the one with a siege mentality? XD

I asked .... to better understand where you are coming from ..... not to interrogate you.

If you don't feel like it, then it is ok.

But then, you already have some kind of preconception about Christians by your statements ... so it doesn't matter what I respond anyway.

So, I leave it as it is.

Well you have to define what is a Christian?

What is your understanding of it before we can answer yes or no.

Problem of generalization from non believers can lead to error in understanding.

Clearly u cant answer hence the avoidance. Whats the point of calling yourself Christians if you cannot even answer a simple question and yet pass judgement on a person without a basis? Hypocrisy at its best.

The problem with Christians is that they GENERALISE that just cuz someone is asking them about Christianity therefore that person must be a NON BELIEVER!

And you think the world has a problem with you? The problem is from within.

Till now nobody can answer a simple question. Typical siege mentality. Always thinking the worst of others and yet claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ.

ha? 

Why are you so angry?

We're just trying to clarify...but if you feel offended, then nevermind lah.

Well stop making blind assumptions while sitting on your pedestals and just answer the question with a simple YES or NO answer.

There is nothing to clarify.

Actually there is a need for clarification, I've personally met .. some people who claim to be Christian and yet is clueless to what it means, what it entails, what is to be believed correctly and live contradictory to errornous understanding.

For example, he thinks he need to perform good works to qualify to enter in Heaven.... Are these going to Heaven? To be Honest I don't know.

To me a Genuine Christian is one who believed in Jesus Christ as His Saviour, have made that confession, have a relationship with God and depends 100% in Faith in what God says.

Are these going to Heaven, I believe So.

Then u are clearly not Christians because real Christians know that you don't have to be a Christian to go to Heaven. Jesus never said you need to be a Christian to go to Heaven. Heaven is not a membership game. Its about who u are as a person and your personal relationship with God.

And b4 u try and hammer me know this. Ive been a Christian far longer than most of you and trust me I know my faith much better than most. Blindly quoting Bible verses is NOT what our religion is about and passing judgement on others (Christian or otherwise) is NOT what we have been taught.

That's the reason why Muslims and Christians are the most hated religions among the non believers.

The problem is that we cannot simply define Christianity as we like and deemed fit, no matter how nice it sounds from human philosophical understanding.

It has to be based on the word of God as the root basis.
What you're saying here has a bit of merit but not really accurate either.

Some of us here are in our 40's, 50's.

Don't mind me asking..How long have you been a  Christian?

Just because a person isn't a Christian but lives his life as a virtuous person doesn't mean he goes to Hell. So being a Christian doesn't get u to Heaven and neither does it mean automatic entrance.

Its all about how you live your life. Bible or not, Church going or not.

okaaayyy Chill brother.

I think I can understand where this is going.

Let me recollect my thoughts I will answer you later.

But in the mean time cool down. 

Was never hot in the first place. That's the problem when you assume. I was being direct.

I asked a simple question and till now nobody has answered it. YOU included. I didn't justify anything. And im a nut job just cuz I chose to challenge your hypocrisy?? And u calling me a nut job makes u more Christian?

That's why I say a beautiful religion is lost on followers like you because you think our religion is just about memorising the Bible and quoting verses. And that crap about just because you accept Christ that means ure saved. Do u think its that easy to be saved? Accepting Christ is NOT about throwing Holy water on your head and memorising the Bible. Its about a full transformation of self. You don't need to be Baptised to go to Heaven. Its all about your life and the way u live it and the message you send to the people around you. Strangers should know ure a Christian not by the Cross u wear around your necks or the Bible verses you quote but by the way you live your life. They need to see God in YOU!

THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF ANY RELIGION IS ITS OWN FOLLOWERS!

Don't ever forget that!

What a load of horseshit from some of you! U quite me Bible verses yet u know nothing about what it means. U treat the Bible like a damn story book to be read on the surface. Stop turning our religion into a mockery!

NO WHERE IN OUR RELIGION IS IT STATED THAT ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST GO TO HEAVEN!

This is all your own damn interpretations!

Jesus said those who FOLLOW HIM go to heaven. Follow Him DOES NOT ONLY MEAN U MUST BE A CHRISTIAN!

Learn the difference. If I live my live virtuously and abide by all the 10 Commandments and do my fair share of charity for mankind do you really think God is going to send me to Hell just cuz I am not a Christian and im not a member of some Church?

Get your damn heads out of the gutter. Use your damn brains and think for yourself. Stop being the hypocrits that u are. Yes im damn pissed because its people like YOU who drive ppl away from Christianity. You pass judgement and u sit on your damn pedestals and think u can judge me? Who the hell gave u that damn right?

Again this is directed at the TWO fools above who thought they could Bible quote me and try to teach me sense while sitting on their damn pedestals. The others are fine. Spiritually dead my ass u self righteous fools!

I would gladly meet up with you FACE TO FACE and tell u both off right off in your damn faces. Its fools like you who mock our religion using your own whims and fancies.

And NO many did not leave Christianity because of unanswered prayers. What a load of horseshit AGAIN! Many left because of damn hypocrits like you who think u can pass judgement on others!

AND YES NOW IM REALLY PISSED! BLOODY COWARDS!

No problem at all. Why do you join them and pass judgement instead of just asking me?

I have no issue with those who go to Church. I myself go every week without fail. I just have an issue with Christians who think that just cuz they go to Church and can Bible quote, they have a right to pass judgement on others / non believers while sitting on their pedestals. I also have issues with Christians who think that Salvation is only for Christians and those who aren't Christians (but live their lives in accordance with Jesus's principles) are doomed to eternal death.

And pls don't be blinded and think that just cuz we go to Church and give tithes that makes us GODLY CHRISTIANS! Our religion is not based on what we do on the surface for all to see and admire. This makes us no better than the fanatical Muslims.

I see that you are deleting posts that do not conform to your warped mind again.

I asked this a few times and you never answered me. I ask this again. Why are you so afraid of me and people who tell facts and truths about the untruths you have been promulgating to people? So afraid that you have to delete their posts. Are our truths so scary?

What a load of horseshit from some of you! U quite me Bible verses yet u know nothing about what it means. U treat the Bible like a damn story book to be read on the surface. Stop turning our religion into a mockery!

NO WHERE IN OUR RELIGION IS IT STATED THAT ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST GO TO HEAVEN!

This is all your own damn interpretations!

Jesus said those who FOLLOW HIM go to heaven. Follow Him DOES NOT ONLY MEAN U MUST BE A CHRISTIAN!

Learn the difference. If I live my live virtuously and abide by all the 10 Commandments and do my fair share of charity for mankind do you really think God is going to send me to Hell just cuz I am not a Christian and im not a member of some Church?

Get your damn heads out of the gutter. Use your damn brains and think for yourself. Stop being the hypocrits that u are. Yes im damn pissed because its people like YOU who drive ppl away from Christianity. You pass judgement and u sit on your damn pedestals and think u can judge me? Who the hell gave u that damn right?

Again this is directed at the TWO fools above who thought they could Bible quote me and try to teach me sense while sitting on their damn pedestals. The others are fine. Spiritually dead my ass u self righteous fools!

I would gladly meet up with you FACE TO FACE and tell u both off right off in your damn faces. Its fools like you who mock our religion using your own whims and fancies.

And NO many did not leave Christianity because of unanswered prayers. What a load of horseshit AGAIN! Many left because of damn hypocrits like you who think u can pass judgement on others!

AND YES NOW IM REALLY PISSED! BLOODY COWARDS!

I'm still waiting for the expose by Andy Carroll. hehe..

Uh there's even the verse for easing thyself. Ouch..I thought that didn't exist. hehe...

Clealiness is a serious issue.

Usually when church members have a healthy discussions about Bible and stuff, there's always room for disagreement, even those you see among other Christian online forum communities.

But not like this. Name calling, spouting rude remarks, trolling, etc...

Boy, you didn't kill his dog brother. Beyond that...

Looks like UW going to be busy deleting comments everyday. 

Cyberdude should channel his anger for more productive use instead of doing it here.

I mean if the dude confessed to be a Christian, then do the Lord's work.

Don't just slander and typing nonsense for fun.

Or fight the Taliban or something.

This.

Being rude in a is usually a sign that you have given up on the debate/ discussion.

Although the TS does generally set the tone for the entire thread, he/ she is not unchallengable. If anyone has any objection about post deletions performed by the TS it's better to have the moderating team weigh in before blowing it out of proportion.

As an atheist I don't really give a rat's ass about the concept of life after death. So instead I have a question for you all:

"I know that in your eyes I'm destined for hell, but would you still treat me like a normal dignified human being?"

Telling people that they're going to hell is usually a derogatory remark. But like I said before I don't really care at all. ‾¯\_(ツ)_/¯

How is it that a Christian don't use scripture to teach others? Then what do we based our "proof" to non-believers?

Oh that nick "tipuism" ? Tipu is cheating in BM right.

Cybermaster please post after 3PM tomorrow, coz I'm free that time.

Its no fun when UW delete it. hehe..

Just because I choose AndyCaroll does not mean I am really a fan of AndyCaroll. I could be mocking a particular club.
Anyway. If you notice, I do not purposely create strife just for the sake of it. It's only when it's too much that I start going a little bonkers.

Anyway. I do have a small disagreement with UW interpretation of that verse but I am not in the mood to discuss as of now.

Hi pardon me if I can interrupt into this "heated" conversation.

I have been reading this thread, and the way I see it is, NO ONE, including UW has ever said you can get saved by going to church and paying tithes.

Bro, I think you have misunderstood big time.

And I believe it's always agreeable among Christians that good works are vital among Christians, because if you are truly saved you will do good work.

But, to be saved, it's only through Jesus, not good work - see the difference there?

Are you blind or just acting stupid? When did I ever say IGNORE THE BIBLE???? I said STOP INTERPRETING THE BIBLE TO FIT YOUR WHIMS AND FANCIES!

Like I said before, if English is a problem then get that sorted first before misquoting me just to save your own face.

And again u lie and claim something which I said in the beginning. I was the one who said that going to Church and paying alms do not make us GODLY Christians and yet u twist it and claim it as your own words and that im the one who doesn't see the truth??

STOP TELLING LIES TO COVER UP YOUR FAULTS! YOU KEEP DELETING MY POSTS BECAUSE IT GIVES YOU A CHANCE TO CLAIM I SAID SMT WHICH I DID NOT!

COWARD!

What a load of horseshit from some of you! U quite me Bible verses yet u know nothing about what it means. U treat the Bible like a damn story book to be read on the surface. Stop turning our religion into a mockery!

NO WHERE IN OUR RELIGION IS IT STATED THAT ONLY THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST GO TO HEAVEN!

This is all your own damn interpretations!

Jesus said those who FOLLOW HIM go to heaven. Follow Him DOES NOT ONLY MEAN U MUST BE A CHRISTIAN!

Learn the difference. If I live my live virtuously and abide by all the 10 Commandments and do my fair share of charity for mankind do you really think God is going to send me to Hell just cuz I am not a Christian and im not a member of some Church?

Get your damn heads out of the gutter. Use your damn brains and think for yourself. Stop being the hypocrits that u are. Yes im damn pissed because its people like YOU who drive ppl away from Christianity. You pass judgement and u sit on your damn pedestals and think u can judge me? Who the hell gave u that damn right?

Again this is directed at the TWO fools above who thought they could Bible quote me and try to teach me sense while sitting on their damn pedestals. The others are fine. Spiritually dead my ass u self righteous fools!

I would gladly meet up with you FACE TO FACE and tell u both off right off in your damn faces. Its fools like you who mock our religion using your own whims and fancies.

And NO many did not leave Christianity because of unanswered prayers. What a load of horseshit AGAIN! Many left because of damn hypocrits like you who think u can pass judgement on others!

AND YES NOW IM REALLY PISSED! BLOODY COWARDS!

Who the hell are u to tell us to be civil when YOU are the one who is flaming and provoking us by misquoting us and spreading lies??? Don't bloody talk about respect when you have not respected any of us from the start.

And NO you are NOT trying to reconcile anything. IN fact u are making it WORSE by spreading more and more lies and falsely accusing me.

BE A MAN AND STOP TELLING LIES YOU COWARD!

Important question to all of you. Do only Christians go to Heaven?

Well, I don't presume to generalise if all Christians do. And I might not be the best person to answer this since I believe there is no such thing as going to heaven [there is something better]. XD But I am a minority.

But in general [not about going to heaven but regarding salvation], most Christians believe that only no morality or religion in this world can save men from their sinful nature. Only, Jesus' death and resurrection has accomplished salvation and fulfils God's righteousness.

That is, God's gospel of grace can save men (Acts 4:12: And there is salvation in no other, for neither is there another name [the person of Christ] under heaven given among men in which we must be saved).

But there is some who have the attitude that we simply cannot second-guess or speculate on how God might deal with special cases.

My question requires just a simple YES or NO answer. Not a theological response.

Why not a theological response? Why yes or no?

What is your purpose in asking then, if I may ask? Is it to understand something?

That's the problem with Christians. They always think with the siege mentality like the Malays in our country. Always so damn worried about giving simple answers.

I asked a simple question and I expected a simple answer. There is no question about my intention, my purpose, my hidden agenda or whatever.

Don't dramatize simple questions.

Lol, please calm down .... you sure you are not the one with a siege mentality? XD

I asked .... to better understand where you are coming from ..... not to interrogate you.

If you don't feel like it, then it is ok.

But then, you already have some kind of preconception about Christians by your statements ... so it doesn't matter what I respond anyway.

So, I leave it as it is.

Well you have to define what is a Christian?

What is your understanding of it before we can answer yes or no.

Problem of generalization from non believers can lead to error in understanding.

Clearly u cant answer hence the avoidance. Whats the point of calling yourself Christians if you cannot even answer a simple question and yet pass judgement on a person without a basis? Hypocrisy at its best.

The problem with Christians is that they GENERALISE that just cuz someone is asking them about Christianity therefore that person must be a NON BELIEVER!

And you think the world has a problem with you? The problem is from within.

Till now nobody can answer a simple question. Typical siege mentality. Always thinking the worst of others and yet claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ.

ha? 

Why are you so angry?

We're just trying to clarify...but if you feel offended, then nevermind lah.

Well stop making blind assumptions while sitting on your pedestals and just answer the question with a simple YES or NO answer.

There is nothing to clarify.

Actually there is a need for clarification, I've personally met .. some people who claim to be Christian and yet is clueless to what it means, what it entails, what is to be believed correctly and live contradictory to errornous understanding.

For example, he thinks he need to perform good works to qualify to enter in Heaven.... Are these going to Heaven? To be Honest I don't know.

To me a Genuine Christian is one who believed in Jesus Christ as His Saviour, have made that confession, have a relationship with God and depends 100% in Faith in what God says.

Are these going to Heaven, I believe So.

Then u are clearly not Christians because real Christians know that you don't have to be a Christian to go to Heaven. Jesus never said you need to be a Christian to go to Heaven. Heaven is not a membership game. Its about who u are as a person and your personal relationship with God.

And b4 u try and hammer me know this. Ive been a Christian far longer than most of you and trust me I know my faith much better than most. Blindly quoting Bible verses is NOT what our religion is about and passing judgement on others (Christian or otherwise) is NOT what we have been taught.

That's the reason why Muslims and Christians are the most hated religions among the non believers.

The problem is that we cannot simply define Christianity as we like and deemed fit, no matter how nice it sounds from human philosophical understanding.

It has to be based on the word of God as the root basis.
What you're saying here has a bit of merit but not really accurate either.

Some of us here are in our 40's, 50's.

Don't mind me asking..How long have you been a  Christian?

Just because a person isn't a Christian but lives his life as a virtuous person doesn't mean he goes to Hell. So being a Christian doesn't get u to Heaven and neither does it mean automatic entrance.

Its all about how you live your life. Bible or not, Church going or not.

okaaayyy Chill brother.

I think I can understand where this is going.

Let me recollect my thoughts I will answer you later.

But in the mean time cool down. 

Was never hot in the first place. That's the problem when you assume. I was being direct.

I asked a simple question and till now nobody has answered it. YOU included. I didn't justify anything. And im a nut job just cuz I chose to challenge your hypocrisy?? And u calling me a nut job makes u more Christian?

That's why I say a beautiful religion is lost on followers like you because you think our religion is just about memorising the Bible and quoting verses. And that crap about just because you accept Christ that means ure saved. Do u think its that easy to be saved? Accepting Christ is NOT about throwing Holy water on your head and memorising the Bible. Its about a full transformation of self. You don't need to be Baptised to go to Heaven. Its all about your life and the way u live it and the message you send to the people around you. Strangers should know ure a Christian not by the Cross u wear around your necks or the Bible verses you quote but by the way you live your life. They need to see God in YOU!

THE BIGGEST ENEMY OF ANY RELIGION IS ITS OWN FOLLOWERS!

Don't ever forget that!

Exactly my point! Jesus never said the way to the Father is thru the Church. He said it's thru Him. Jesus life and ministry is a WAY OF LIFE. The Church is just a medium to enhance that way of life. It is not a SOLE VEHICLE to eternal life.

Many Christian denominations have misused this verse to force / threaten / blackmail non believers into joining their Churches.

CHRISTINITY IS NOT MERELY ABOUT CHURCH MEMBERSHIP AND PAYING TITHES.

Whats more important is THE WAY OF LIFE! That has to be a reflection of our whole existence as Christians.

First of all you need to understand my beliefs which are based on my journey so far and what I have experienced and found out which im confident are and should be the basis of our Faith:

1) The Bible is an all Supreme document and guide for our life

2) The Bible is NOT the only source of guidance

3) God has also placed many Helpers in the world to help us in our journey to Him e.g the Church, parents, family, lay people, strangers, our 5 senses, our intelligence, etc

4) Christianity is NOT merely about a Church membership

5) Attending Church should be a personal decision one makes in defining his relationship with God. If he feels that going to Church doesn't give him that 'enhancement' then we should not judge him and start trying to force him back into the Church using fear tactics of eternal damnation. 

6) A person may be having a much greater relationship with God compared to a person who obediently attends Church every week.

7) We should never judge a person's personal relationship with God based on his Church attendance. 

8) Just because one does not profess to be a Christian does not mean he cannot be a Christian in the way he lives his life

9) A non Christian may be leading a more virtuous life than a Christian who reads & memorises the Bible but doesn't put it into practice

10) Just because one does not go to Church, doesn't mean a person is doomed

11) A person's damnation / salvation is decided based on how he lived his life. Not by a Church membership / non membership.

And pls don't come back saying I don't go to Church because of my sharing above. 

FYI I go every week but I go not because society demands this of me but because I get a certain kind of peace at Church. I actually spend more time in Church on days when there is no service. When the crowds are gone and no one is there to see. That's my quiet time with God. But this is just me. Doing this alone WILL NOT GUARANTEE me Salvation. I do not and will not expect others to conform to that just because that's what I do.

In that same way I get very angry when I hear anybody passing judgement saying that someone is dammed just because he isn't Christian. That's NOT what our religion is about. Our religion is about a way of life in accordance with the teachings of Christ. We don't only need to read the Bible in order to know how to live. We can be living a more virtuous life than a person who reads the Bible. It's all about putting all the positives we know into practice not just in our own lives but also in the lives of those around us.

I STARTED WITH A QUESTION! SEE THE DAMN RESPONSES I GOT IN RETURN! ESPECIALLY YOURS!

Bloody retard!

See how the tone of the discussion has changed the moment u came in?

Like I said, u ask for war and war is what you will get in return.

COWARD!

First let me thank you for your mature response. And thank you for not judging me. This clearly shows there are people on this thread here who can engage like a normal, mature HUMAN being without passing judgement.

UW GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND LEARN FROM THIS GUY!