Ok UW, don't start deleting comments first, I wanna sleep 8 hours and read later.

Good night.

You are suppose to do your 'job' as a Christian and bear witness the correct way? Have you done that? No.

You have no FAITH in you to do that! And on top of that you are giving Christian a bad name.

Dude, no need to go through all the discussion of salvation to finally your GRACE sermons.  You are good at quoting scriptures.  That's all.  You do not know the scriptures.

See! I rest my case.

Of course you're not supposed to force them! Why then do you insist that your path is the only one to salvation and the rest of them will go to hell?
Of course nobody wants to go to hell! Why would anyone want to choose to burn in hell and suffer for all of eternity?

And to threaten others that they will go to hell for not following Jesus is obviously not giving people ANY choice in the first place?

What kind of "choice would it be" if it's full of negative consequences? With this logic, there's obviously NO such thing as choice because it implies that the ONLY WAY to AVOID HELL is to follow Christianity. The so-called "choice"becomes meaningless, because it implies the other choice is simply not something people will naturally want.

And why is that the only way? Why can't the omnipotent god simply forgive without the need for a sacrifice?

You're basically saying, if you don't believe in god, you will go to hell. That's basically a threat, and not so much of a choice because of course people don't want to go to hell. But why must NOT going to hell corresponds to the choice of following ONLY him?

Brother, maybe you should take a rest abit on this, don't be too stress over it, also John 3:16 is suffice enough to show God Will

Why not? If he's all-powerful, surely he's able to forgive sins without the need for a sacrifice? Can there be no forgiveness without a death?

But what are these sins that is beyond God's ability to forgive them, so much so that it requires a sacrifice?

Why can't he just forgive sins? Is he not all forgiving? Why must justice come in the way of forgiveness?

if justice can come in the way so easily, does that mean that god is actually not all-forgiving?

There are researches proving that human heart is more and more hardened as he ages. You will find it easier to preach Gospel to a child than an adult, even someone who claims himself as Christian.

Yes. Another better word to be used is teachable.

You raise valid questions.

Perhaps there is some hope.

This is a forum so I'll be very brief in my statements. You can dig deeper for yourself.

What is death? Not only on the physical sense but the spiritual sense.
Why would one be eternally separated from God just because of disobedience?

Let us go all the way back to the beginning

What did God create in the beginning?

God created man and he planted the garden of Eden and put man there.
Two trees were put there
The tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. (KGE)
And God simply said trust me.
Don't eat from the KGE

Man disobeyed and you know the rest.

An interesting thing to note is that before man disobeyed he was naked and not ashamed.
There was no sense of fear even when God spoke to him earlier

After he disobeyed the first thing he did was cover themselves up and he hid when God came into the garden.

I put it to you that man already died spiritually then and the physical death of the body came much later.

I am now going to write on why it was necessary for Jesus to die.

When man fell, he lost the legal right to everything, even the earth.
Basically the devil gained the power to run amok over man anytime he wanted.
Look back to the temptation of Jesus. (Go read for your self)

When Jesus was put to death on the cross, the devil overstepped his legal limits
(I using the term loosely here because I can't find a better word to use)
The devil could not simply kill Jesus because Jesus was not of the seed of man. I.e. Jesus is a citizen of heaven and not earth.

Throughout the OT, God gave a picture of what constitutes sanctification
Using the blood of animals to explain to our human minds we can approach God because we are clean. (Sanctified by the blood)
(Blood is synonymous with life )

So when Jesus body died, his shed blood provided sanctification for every person. Who chooses to obey God again, it is like a reset to a condition before the fall of man.
Are you still following me?

Now I will put the two together.

Man is by nature sinful (unwhole)

God is holy (wholesome)

In man's natural state he will want to run as far away from God as possible because he cannot stand in the presence of a ho!y God.
(Go look up the story of Howard Storm)

If one chooses not to accept the sanctification that is provided by the shed  blood of Jesus, he will not be able to stand (tahan) being near to God. In fact he will choose a place of torment rather than be near God.

The shed blood of Jesus is a loving God's provision for a rebellious mankind.
Whether one accept it is entirely a personal choice.

Many times I encounter the question why Jesus and not Buddha or Mohamed or Vishnu or the flying spaghetti monster.

The answer is actually very simple.
The Bible is the single most historically researched set of documents in the world and has been proven to accurately portray historical events crossed referenced to non biblical sources.
Take the Cyrus cylinder as an exanple.

The new testament has more than 5,800 manuscript fragments found so far and these fragments have little or insignificant variations usually attributable to copying errors.
As a historical document, the bible is very reliable.

Jesus Christ is the on!y historical figure I know who fulfilled more than 350 prophesies written about him when he lived his short life of 30some years.

Even the manner of his death was accurately prophesized hundreds of years before he was born.

Finally but certainly most important Jesus has been real to me personally.
He is someone real. Not imagined

Follow him and you will live a privileged life. Not necessarily a wealthy life but certainly a life full of meaning and purpose.
And after you leave your physical body there is much more for you.

I have no idea why you lost your faith.
However I know if you are willing to return and talk to Jesus, He is willing to talk to you too.

Shalom brother.

You missed my point. The examples you have laid out were terrible crimes, and simply wrong, and it's understandable that they deserve the consequences for them.

But the ones I was talking about were the ones who are GOOD people who simply did not believe in the Judea-Christian god? It's understandable that Jesus died for such atrocities that you have given as examples, but do good people who do not believe in the same god should also be categorised as the same kind of sinners? That they too, deserve death, that the Judea-Christian god has to sacrifice his son to cover for the punishment? Why should these good people go to hell or do not deserve salvation just because they do not believe in the same god?

Similarly, let's me for example. What exactly have I done to deserve the same fate as the Jesus character? I have not committed murder nor raped nor commit any heavy crimes in my life? Why should I be considered as a "sinner" when the real world is more grey than mere black and white?

And this god is clearly incapable of forgiving people if he thinks that it must be paid in blood, even if he did sacrificed Jesus. If he's not going to forgive, then he clearly shouldn't. But if he's ging to forgive, then he should. If the so-called sins of humanity is clearly great that he simply cannot forgive them, then why doesn't he choose NOT to forgive us instead and wiped us out completely in the same tantrum that he demonstrated in the flood of Noah? Why pay for our sins with blood and call it "forgiveness"?

for you to conclude that way, i seriously doubt you know the commission given by Jesus.

another pointy fingers with a bla bla mouth with no actual actions. everyday disappointing to others and feels sad in each 24 hours.

I've been to UW church too. Nothing seem out of the ordinary except for the SIZE.

Not that I'm defending UW or anything. But I don't see anything that even remotely resemble cult practices overthere.

Come on guys. Don't tell me UW is secret spy or something. 

You must have hurt his feelings. I'm just saying. Some men are reportedly to have pent-up anger and if its not release, they end up having Talibanesque vegeance.

IDK. I'm having these anxious feeling, mood swing, fatigue, etc..

Not its not PMS yet.

Do you understand what is objective truth?
1 + 1 = 2. No matter which angle you look at. The interpretation of the bible is objective. It's whether one wants to accept the truth that has been shown to them. If they are not willing, they will twist it. If God's word is objective, then it would be very confusing. But then God is not confusing.

Anyway. It's funny that I still have such a place in UW heart. Shows pretty much that he does not forget so easily. Guess it speaks a lot about his stance on judge not when he has been judging harshly all the time.

You know what is the difference between me and the other 2 pretenders? UW would have deleted my post immediately because I exposed him and his gang big time. Whereelse for the other 2, their post are allowed to stand because it's not as vindictive and most of their logic are haywired anyway. So UW actually looks good by "debating" with them.

Anyway. I do agree with some of the points of the other 2 pretenders though. There is no such thing as a free debate with UW. It's his way or you get out. Typical cultish mentality actually. But I disagree with everything else. Anyone who knows my style would realize I will never relegate the word of God to such low regard. So I guess the hatred for me from UW has blinded his eyes actually that he is now willing to associate everything bad to me. But then he is controlled by the spirit of the world right?

I guess Tinahian is still siding with UW even up to now. Nothing much has change I guess.

If you really think the life of animals can actually redeem men's sin, you are seriously mistaken.