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> LG OLED TV Discussion Thread, OLED TV

anfieldude
post Jul 13 2017, 03:25 PM


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QUOTE(ktek @ Jul 11 2017, 09:33 AM)
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I've been around, just don't post much.

There seems to be some improvements made in my opinion.

While I don't really consider streaming video as serious viewing, the addition of various streaming options in Malaysia (legally) at UHD (albeit heavily compressed) resolution is a plus. When the industry moved from SD to HD, there was a dire need to show content on HD/Full HD to sell the displays that were FullHD, but content was slow or expensive. The adoption rate was slow and people held on to the CRTs as long as they good. Enticing them to upgrade was difficult, especially with content not being there for the vieiwing.

Now with Netflix/Amazon at our doorstep with high speed internet and both of them having a decent catalogue of content on UHD/HDR/Dolby Vision, things are looking better.

With the recent availability of software to be able to calibrate for Dolby Vision (via a change to the Golden Reference File) and HDR10 separately in different memories on the LG 2017 OLEDs it indicates to me that the manufacturers now understand whats needed for UHD calibration at last after multiple chances to get it right.

While, I prefer if the manufacturers give me more leeway in deciding how I want to roll off the highlights to account for lower output than is demanded by the video in play, I believe we are not far off that this gets built in at least for calibrators to implement on the higher end sets in the near future.

I hope to write more in the coming weeks after the set rakes in some hours.


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anfieldude
post Jul 19 2017, 04:24 PM


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Some initial observations.

There are some improvements compared to the 2016 LG OLED in areas that have been already touched upon by the international reviews.

Near black handling is clearly better. While I am still not sure if it is higher than 8 bits in the low end, the improvement compared to 2016 is there. This helps noisy dark areas better. I do see posterization from time to time, but its in content that is streaming, hence its hard to understand if they are bit starved.

The set is still new and needs to settle down a bit. I believe it has to undergo its 1st compensation cycle before I can judge further.

I do see that the Dynamic handling of HDR does allow to resolve higher than 1000nits (sometimes I see even up to 4000nits) but depending on the APL (with this being test patterns) the impact on the overall brightness is there.

For SDR, the brightness/contrast seems to be spot on at default which is a good indication that LG understands this very well.

I hope to jot down further observations when I calibrate it this week.

Also looking forward to calibrating Dolby Vision soon.

The UHD/HDR/DV feeds in Netflix do hv peak data streaming of about 15-20Mbps. I hv not seen any really coming close to 25Mpbs that Netflix requires for UHD, but then again, I hv not really viewed the whole movies yet.
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funnyface
post Jul 19 2017, 05:40 PM


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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Jul 19 2017, 04:24 PM)
Some initial observations.

There are some improvements compared to the 2016 LG OLED in areas that have been already touched upon by the international reviews.

Near black handling is clearly better. While I am still not sure if it is higher than 8 bits in the low end, the improvement compared to 2016 is there. This helps noisy dark areas better. I do see posterization from time to time, but its in content that is streaming, hence its hard to understand if they are bit starved.

The set is still new and needs to settle down a bit. I believe it has to undergo its 1st compensation cycle before I can judge further.

I do see that the Dynamic handling of HDR does allow to resolve higher than 1000nits (sometimes I see even up to 4000nits) but depending on the APL (with this being test patterns) the impact on the overall brightness is there.

For SDR, the brightness/contrast seems to be spot on at default which is a good indication that LG understands this very well.

I hope to jot down further observations when I calibrate it this week.

Also looking forward to calibrating Dolby Vision soon.

The UHD/HDR/DV feeds in Netflix do hv peak data streaming of about 15-20Mbps. I hv not seen any really coming close to 25Mpbs that Netflix requires for UHD, but then again, I hv not really viewed the whole movies yet.
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I should be receiving my 55C7 soon, hope sifu can share your picture settings later notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif
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Escaflowne
post Jul 20 2017, 04:17 AM


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hi all,

anyone owning a C7 also owns sonos playbar?

I'm not able to pair the remote with the Sonos playbar.

thanks.
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SSJBen
post Jul 20 2017, 05:01 PM


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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Jul 19 2017, 04:24 PM)
Some initial observations.

There are some improvements compared to the 2016 LG OLED in areas that have been already touched upon by the international reviews.

Near black handling is clearly better. While I am still not sure if it is higher than 8 bits in the low end, the improvement compared to 2016 is there. This helps noisy dark areas better. I do see posterization from time to time, but its in content that is streaming, hence its hard to understand if they are bit starved.

The set is still new and needs to settle down a bit. I believe it has to undergo its 1st compensation cycle before I can judge further.

I do see that the Dynamic handling of HDR does allow to resolve higher than 1000nits (sometimes I see even up to 4000nits) but depending on the APL (with this being test patterns) the impact on the overall brightness is there.

For SDR, the brightness/contrast seems to be spot on at default which is a good indication that LG understands this very well.

I hope to jot down further observations when I calibrate it this week.

Also looking forward to calibrating Dolby Vision soon.

The UHD/HDR/DV feeds in Netflix do hv peak data streaming of about 15-20Mbps. I hv not seen any really coming close to 25Mpbs that Netflix requires for UHD, but then again, I hv not really viewed the whole movies yet.
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@bold 1
Agreed. I still do see some posterization on 10 bit content though, was watching Resident Evil Vendetta (UHD blu-ray version) the other day and I clearly see banding on dark gradients. I feel that LG could have a similar post-process like Sony's Smooth Gradation feature to help in this area, at the expense of blurring actual textures.

@bold 2
Took me 3 compensation cycles before I could start calibrating without any changes beyond the next 50 hours. So basically, the first 120+ hours of my C7 has been for non-critical viewing. I read that a few owners let their C7s run slides for a week before even attempting to watch anything though. That's a little too extreme IMO.

@bold 3
This is one of the most significant improvements I've observed moving from the E6 to the C7. Couple with the fact that APL is significantly less aggressive as well, this makes for a very case where bright scenes become very tolerable to watch. Dolby Vision will further close the gap between OLED and LCDs for peak brightness due to this sole improvement.

This post has been edited by SSJBen: Jul 20 2017, 05:01 PM
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anfieldude
post Jul 21 2017, 09:29 AM


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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Jul 20 2017, 05:01 PM)
@bold 1
Agreed. I still do see some posterization on 10 bit content though, was watching Resident Evil Vendetta (UHD blu-ray version) the other day and I clearly see banding on dark gradients. I feel that LG could have a similar post-process like Sony's Smooth Gradation feature to help in this area, at the expense of blurring actual textures.

@bold 2
Took me 3 compensation cycles before I could start calibrating without any changes beyond the next 50 hours. So basically, the first 120+ hours of my C7 has been for non-critical viewing. I read that a few owners let their C7s run slides for a week before even attempting to watch anything though. That's a little too extreme IMO.

@bold 3
This is one of the most significant improvements I've observed moving from the E6 to the C7. Couple with the fact that APL is significantly less aggressive as well, this makes for a very case where bright scenes become very tolerable to watch. Dolby Vision will further close the gap between OLED and LCDs for peak brightness due to this sole improvement.
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I'm not sure if the banding is not in the content, I hv seen them in content as well previously when I am at some post production studio using their monitor used for colour grading. However, I believe there is an inherent weakness to how the OLED handles dark content as the slight posterization can be seen on 10bit colour grading test patterns which indicate the weakness. I hv seen better handing of these kinds of material in my Kuro 9th Gen as the PWM and halftoning algorithms can mask them but with some added noise in the areas.

On the calibration portion, are u doing SDR and HDR calibration? I do believe that the greyscale can be calibrated well if u understand how not to misalign the 20pt controls. As yet, I hv not seen any display so far handle white balance as well as the 9th Gen Kuros that only has 2 point but almost ruler flat greyscale even when measured at 5% intervals.

Dolby Vision calibration will be interesting. So far only Calman has the ability to do it. U would also need a pattern generator that can trigger Dolby Vision or use ur PC. The workflows are very specific as it's controlled by Dolby.

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SSJBen
post Jul 21 2017, 03:33 PM


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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Jul 21 2017, 09:29 AM)
I'm not sure if the banding is not in the content, I hv seen them in content as well previously when I am at some post production studio using their monitor used for colour grading. However, I believe there is an inherent weakness to how the OLED handles dark content as the slight posterization can be seen on 10bit colour grading test patterns which indicate the weakness. I hv seen better handing of these kinds of material in my Kuro 9th Gen as the PWM and halftoning algorithms can mask them but with some added noise in the areas.

On the calibration portion, are u doing SDR and HDR calibration? I do believe that the greyscale can be calibrated well if u understand how not to misalign the 20pt controls. As yet, I hv not seen any display so far handle white balance as well as the 9th Gen Kuros that only has 2 point but almost ruler flat greyscale even when measured at 5% intervals.

Dolby Vision calibration will be interesting. So far only Calman has the ability to do it. U would also need a pattern generator that can trigger Dolby Vision or use ur PC.  The workflows are very specific as it's controlled by Dolby.
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I don't think the banding is in the content? RE:V is a 10 bit mastered movie with Dolby Vision, so it's mastered exactly like that from the studio. Yeah, contours and posterization can be seen on the C7. From my understanding, it is LG's current band-aid situation to boost brightness levels - resulting in banding and vignetting on the panel.
I've seen plenty of people returning their C7s (not here though) to exchange for a better panel until they get a "perfect" one. As it stands right now, yeah majority of C7 (and all other 6 and 7 series models) will exhibit banding in gradients.

Both, but I think LG did a pretty solid job in the SDR presets out of the box if you ask me, not a whole lot of tweaking needed to achieve a flat greyscale. Only thing I tried and achieve with SDR content is to match it at 2.2 gamma, which out of the box was a little high at 2.3. Although 2.4 would be best in a pitch black room, I don't watch stuff in a pitch black room anymore these days.

On the HDR side, I borrowed a Klein K80 and Murideo 6G from a friend who's a fellow calibrator and I will be using that for pattern generation. I'm not sure whether I did a good enough job or not (not a certified calibrator here so there are a few things I'm not quite sure about), to my eyes at least - I think it's fine. Will have the friend over this weekend to verify my calibration.
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funnyface
post Jul 21 2017, 03:50 PM


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anfieldude
post Jul 21 2017, 03:53 PM


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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Jul 21 2017, 03:33 PM)
I don't think the banding is in the content? RE:V is a 10 bit mastered movie with Dolby Vision, so it's mastered exactly like that from the studio. Yeah, contours and posterization can be seen on the C7. From my understanding, it is LG's current band-aid situation to boost brightness levels - resulting in banding and vignetting on the panel.
I've seen plenty of people returning their C7s (not here though) to exchange for a better panel until they get a "perfect" one. As it stands right now, yeah majority of C7 (and all other 6 and 7 series models) will exhibit banding in gradients.

Both, but I think LG did a pretty solid job in the SDR presets out of the box if you ask me, not a whole lot of tweaking needed to achieve a flat greyscale. Only thing I tried and achieve with SDR content is to match it at 2.2 gamma, which out of the box was a little high at 2.3. Although 2.4 would be best in a pitch black room, I don't watch stuff in a pitch black room anymore these days.

On the HDR side, I borrowed a Klein K80 and Murideo 6G from a friend who's a fellow calibrator and I will be using that for pattern generation. I'm not sure whether I did a good enough job or not (not a certified calibrator here so there are a few things I'm not quite sure about), to my eyes at least - I think it's fine. Will have the friend over this weekend to verify my calibration.
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Seems like u r in the right direction as far as calibration is concerned. I would advise if possible to profile the K80 with a 5nm spectro and do a perceptual matching against another display side by side calibrated to D65 and make adjustments for white point after that. This is avoid the colour metamerism effect that the OLED can pose.

Btw, I did not mean that for RE UHD that u watched had banding in the source I was meaning to point out that not all content mastered is free of banding. Banding can exist in BD and UHD .

Sent u a separate PM on something else. If possible, pls let me know.
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SSJBen
post Jul 21 2017, 04:47 PM


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QUOTE(anfieldude @ Jul 21 2017, 03:53 PM)
Seems like u r in the right direction as far as calibration is concerned. I would advise if possible to profile the K80 with a 5nm spectro and do a perceptual matching against another display side by side calibrated to D65 and make adjustments for white point after that. This is avoid the colour metamerism effect that the OLED can pose.

Btw, I did not mean that for RE UHD that u watched had banding in the source I was meaning to point out that not all content mastered is free of banding. Banding can exist in BD and UHD .

Sent u a separate PM on something else. If possible, pls let me know.
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@bolded
Understood, will do that.
I've gotten delta errors to 1 currently, I doubt it can go below that anymore.

Ah alright, I went back and re-read your post. Misunderstood, my bad.

On a side note, Rtings posted this comparison between the C7 and A1E:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



The A1E has almost no banding at all as a result of Smooth Gradation enabled to the "Low" setting.
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anfieldude
post Jul 25 2017, 11:14 AM


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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Jul 21 2017, 04:47 PM)
@bolded
Understood, will do that.
I've gotten delta errors to 1 currently, I doubt it can go below that anymore.

Ah alright, I went back and re-read your post. Misunderstood, my bad.

On a side note, Rtings posted this comparison between the C7 and A1E:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

The A1E has almost no banding at all as a result of Smooth Gradation enabled to the "Low" setting.
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I agree that the Sony does seem improve banding. However, I believe that particular banding is in the source. I will need to get the data on that compared to a reference monitor used for grading. When I find it , I will post.

Still, I think the layman would prefer the Sony version since it's difficult to explain that it's an inaccurate source.
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munchoong
post Aug 11 2017, 08:13 PM


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Question for the sifus

I was watching The Revenant today, and the video signal quit a few times (no more than 2-3 seconds) before coming back up. I don't think it's a disc issue cos the audio continued, and my E6 flashes the HDR indicator on the upper right corner for a few second when the picture came back on.

I am running the disc on a Samsung UBD-K8500, using HDMI1 output only to my Yamaha RX-A3050 receiver, which outputs to HDMI2 on my E6.

I use the same 6ft AmazonBasics cable (see https://amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-.../dp/B014I8SSD0) to connect the player to the receiver, and the receiver to the TV.

This is the first time I encountered this problem, did not have any issues with other titles like Batman v Superman or Planet Earth II.

Any input would be much appreciated.

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SSJBen
post Aug 11 2017, 10:36 PM


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QUOTE(munchoong @ Aug 11 2017, 08:13 PM)
Question for the sifus

I was watching The Revenant today, and the video signal quit a few times (no more than 2-3 seconds) before coming back up. I don't think it's a disc issue cos the audio continued, and my E6 flashes the HDR indicator on the upper right corner for a few second when the picture came back on.

I am running the disc on a Samsung UBD-K8500, using HDMI1 output only to my Yamaha RX-A3050 receiver, which outputs to HDMI2 on my E6.

I use the same 6ft AmazonBasics cable (see https://amazon.com/AmazonBasics-High-.../dp/B014I8SSD0) to connect the player to the receiver, and the receiver to the TV.

This is the first time I encountered this problem, did not have any issues with other titles like Batman v Superman or Planet Earth II.

Any input would be much appreciated.
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Is your A3050 set to 4K Mode 1?
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munchoong
post Aug 12 2017, 09:56 AM


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QUOTE(SSJBen @ Aug 11 2017, 10:36 PM)
Is your A3050 set to 4K Mode 1?
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No, I set to Mode 2 already to enable 10-bit color passthrough.
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SSJBen
post Aug 12 2017, 03:06 PM


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QUOTE(munchoong @ Aug 12 2017, 09:56 AM)
No, I set to Mode 2 already to enable 10-bit color passthrough.
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Uhm... you should to set to Mode 1 actually.
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munchoong
post Yesterday, 12:15 AM


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Noted.

I switched to Mode 2 cos I was getting color banding on Mode 1. Will retest again, thanks
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munchoong
post Yesterday, 12:27 AM


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Set to 4K Mode 1

Still getting the intermittent video dropouts sad.gif

Doesn't look like it's isolated only to The Revenant, getting same problem with John Wick

Ordered some cables from 18gbps certified cables from Monoprice, scheduled to arrive end of this month. Will use separate cables for audio and video for the UHD player and see if it fixes the problem

This post has been edited by munchoong: Today, 09:05 PM
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