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> Coffee Lover v.2 Thread, Let's Share!

alvinfks78
post Jun 23 2017, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE(patryn33 @ Jun 22 2017, 08:43 PM)
Quakers can be brittle like the rest of the beans. You found quakers in your beans?
http://coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/685740
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i think i remember finding a one light coloured standing out compared to the rest of beans and i remember the drink a bit strange.
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lowkl
post Jun 23 2017, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE(ymeng85 @ Jun 23 2017, 09:48 AM)
What's the specific challenge you're facing? Lack of florals? lack of sweetness? Too acidic?
There is no 1 profile that's perfect for all bean origins and really depends on what you would like to highlight from it
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Lack of distinct taste profile, I guess. For example, the Yirgacheffe I had roasted had that unique floral tones, but a bit muted. In some specialty cafes I have experienced super clear notes, even when drowned in milk.

What I've tried is to do a lighter roast, dropping at 215c or even earlier. Still no joy; in fact started to have underdeveloped characteristics if I stopped too soon....grassy, unpleasant. I always tried to maintain at least a 3 minute development time after 1st crack, by reducing the rate of rise.

As mentioned, last batch was better, rushing the roast as much as I could and still end at this roast level.

Question: for espresso, how long do you keep it in development, and your typical Rate of Rise during this phase?

Do you think my drying phase to 1C is too long? If yes, Should I get a stronger heat source or concentrate on increasing airflow?
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ymeng85
post Jun 23 2017, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE(lowkl @ Jun 23 2017, 12:57 PM)
Lack of distinct taste profile, I guess. For example, the Yirgacheffe I had roasted had that unique floral tones, but a bit muted. In some specialty cafes I have experienced super clear notes, even when drowned in milk.

What I've tried is to do a lighter roast, dropping at 215c or even earlier. Still no joy; in fact started to have underdeveloped characteristics if I stopped too soon....grassy, unpleasant. I always tried to maintain at least a 3 minute development time after 1st crack, by reducing the rate of rise.

As mentioned, last batch was better, rushing the roast as much as I could and still end at this roast level.

Question: for espresso, how long do you keep it in development, and your typical Rate of Rise during this phase?

Do you think my drying phase to 1C is too long? If yes, Should I get a stronger heat source or concentrate on increasing airflow?
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You have alot of questions all merged into 1 post haha

I'll say first and foremost is that the quality of the green is really important. Get them as fresh as you can get them (current year crop) and store them well. Do some pre sorting to clear out chips, shells, rots, insect damaged etc
I vary the development widely. I typically hit 1C at 200-205C and drop the beans anywhere from 214C-218C depending on which coffee I'm roasting

Roast times are also ~11-13mins (this really depends on batch size. A 250g batch size I may complete faster closer to 10mins. I typically roasts at 550g batch sizes)

Your turning point is much slower than what I normally go with but would be great for a Natural or a low altitude Indonesian. I turn at 1.30min

What's your charge temp though? Because of a small machine like yours, it's not going to be holding a high amount of thermal mass meaning you might want to charge higher to shorten your roast times

More clarification on your taste issue - flat and boring or cloudy (too much body, tastes bitter)

And finally, espresso calibration/dose? You'll want to dose the Yirg higher for milk compare to other beans for example

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ymeng85
post Jun 23 2017, 03:38 PM
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General guidelines i supposed:

Higher drum speed = more convection, less conduction so lower in body
Airflow = higher better for florals. Pair it to higher drum speed and more gas in the early phases. Also, kick the air up close to first crack to clear up smoke for more clarity

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lowkl
post Jun 23 2017, 04:11 PM
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QUOTE(ymeng85 @ Jun 23 2017, 03:32 PM)
You have alot of questions all merged into 1 post haha

I'll say first and foremost is that the quality of the green is really important. Get them as fresh as you can get them (current year crop) and store them well. Do some pre sorting to clear out chips, shells, rots, insect damaged etc
I vary the development widely. I typically hit 1C at 200-205C and drop the beans anywhere from 214C-218C depending on which coffee I'm roasting

Roast times are also ~11-13mins (this really depends on batch size. A 250g batch size I may complete faster closer to 10mins. I typically roasts at 550g batch sizes)

Your turning point is much slower than what I normally go with but would be great for a Natural or a low altitude Indonesian. I turn at 1.30min

What's your charge temp though? Because of a small machine like yours, it's not going to be holding a high amount of thermal mass meaning you might want to charge higher to shorten your roast times

More clarification on your taste issue - flat and boring or cloudy (too much body, tastes bitter)

And finally, espresso calibration/dose? You'll want to dose the Yirg higher for milk compare to other beans for example
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Firstly, much thanks for going through & responding to my lengthy posts.

I'll keep note of your point of bean quality. I'm still going through my last batch of green beans, as I like to buy in bulk for economic reasons. Visually, these beans appear consistent and with very minimal defects (to my untrained eye).

I keep my batch size fixed to 300gm, as that's what this roaster is supposed to be for. I read in some forums that it does badly when the batch size is much smaller.

My charge temperature is 205c to 210c. I was a bit worried to go any higher as I noticed a few beans with some craters. I just checked....it's actually too much heat between 1C and 2C that causes craters. Let me try charging at maybe 220c.

Taste is .... a bit boring, I guess. It's just that I have tried more than a half dozen varietals but they don't taste very different. Could be my palate is not sophisticated enough. Or my expectations are unrealistic.

I keep my dose consistent with the max on my cheapo machine. Any higher dose presses against the shower screen and I get channeling.

Can I pass a sample to you for comments?
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ymeng85
post Jun 24 2017, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(lowkl @ Jun 23 2017, 04:11 PM)
Firstly, much thanks for going through & responding to my lengthy posts.

I'll keep note of your point of bean quality. I'm still going through my last batch of green beans, as I like to buy in bulk for economic reasons. Visually, these beans appear consistent and with very minimal defects (to my untrained eye).

I keep my batch size fixed to 300gm, as that's what this roaster is supposed to be for. I read in some forums that it does badly when the batch size is much smaller.

My charge temperature is 205c to 210c. I was a bit worried to go any higher as I noticed a few beans with some craters. I just checked....it's actually too much heat between 1C and 2C that causes craters. Let me try charging at maybe 220c.

Taste is .... a bit boring, I guess. It's just that I have tried more than a half dozen varietals but they don't taste very different. Could be my palate is not sophisticated enough. Or my expectations are unrealistic.

I keep my dose consistent with the max on my cheapo machine. Any higher dose presses against the shower screen and I get channeling.

Can I pass a sample to you for comments?
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Yea, a couple of problems there...

A good looking bean still doesn't mean the flavors are going to be good. Still have to see the farm quality, soil, elevation and varietal to know if the flavors are clean and good. But you've tried many you say......

205-210 is way too low! biggrin.gif I charge 235-245C even on 250gram batches (the higher 245 is when dealing with high density beans and when I'm looking for hard and fast for maximum florals especially for filter roasts)

I had the same problems with you when I started previously. There was the balancing act of figuring out if it was greens, roasting or brewing that's causing probs bangwall.gif

I'll gladly help a fellow roaster out. You can throw me samples whichever way you want and I can compare notes with you (green for me to roast, roasted for me to try brewing etc). At least i have the right espresso setup to make sure you're not just being dragged into a rabbit hole by your machine or water filter quality
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ymeng85
post Jun 24 2017, 11:02 AM
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We actually tend to "overdose" on milk in Malaysia in general. Alot of our whites (latte/capps) are overly milky lacking flavors
I tried to remove the separation of latte/cappucino from my menu before so that I could impart my own interpretation of whats the best milk:coffee ratio but that confused the hell out of alot of people around here haha

Anyways, evaluate the coffee as espresso or long black as much as possible
What's your cup size and your dose vs yield amount?
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dwRK
post Jun 24 2017, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE(ymeng85 @ Jun 24 2017, 11:02 AM)
We actually tend to "overdose" on milk in Malaysia in general. Alot of our whites (latte/capps) are overly milky lacking flavors
I tried to remove the separation of latte/cappucino from my menu before so that I could impart my own interpretation of whats the best milk:coffee ratio but that confused the hell out of alot of people around here haha

Anyways, evaluate the coffee as espresso or long black as much as possible
What's your cup size and your dose vs yield amount?
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Yup...milk overdose...made worse by not extracting properly...I "spy" on them when they brew...start my mental 30 seconds count and observe how the Espresso drips out...I already know...

Yirg is better off black or as espresso as you know...not with milk...also best done with preinfusion if possible...
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lowkl
post Jun 24 2017, 04:03 PM
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My 53mm basket accepts 16gm and my target output is 23gm to 26gm. Unfortunately I cannot fit a scale into my cheapo espresso machine, so I have to do it volumetrically with crema...about the 40ml mark.

My cup is 260ml, which I don't fully top out with foamed milk. Milk about 150ml (I know lah.....it's how I like it lah) then foamed.

I know the "proper" way to appreciate coffee is black, and not even long black via espresso but by pour over or Syphon. I use Aeropress at the office, which yields something closer to pour over.

Let me roast a batch of Kenyan this long weekend and send them over once the post office opens on Wednesday. They are my most problematic as I had very very high expectations but so far just ok only.
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