Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bump Topic Topic Closed RSS Feed

Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+

 Insurance Talk V3, Anything and everything about insurance

views
     
heavensea
post Oct 27 2016, 08:40 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
What's the meaning of keeping insurance saving plan of "guaranteed income provider"/GIP?

I've done calculations thoroughly, the return of such plan is in par / even slightly lower than projection returns of FD? At least I've liquidity in fd but what's the meaning of such GIP plan?

Not to mention if I park those money in "funds", it would give me much much more returns with compounding effects.. in short, I would suffered of more lose as the longer insurance company has my money.

This plan comes with death benefits though...

I've decided to surrender this GIP plan once I can got back the initial money I invested (break even point), I don't mind to lose interest (opportunity cost they had my money..) as long as I can get back the lumsum without single cent of lose.

As i mentioned, I've done many comparison based on my calculations... this plan doesn't good at all, returns/protection of death benefits is low..

I will definitely surrender it once "break even" to get back my capital. Am I doing the right thing? Or I've missed up any pros of such plan?

Please advise me, tqvm.

This post has been edited by heavensea: Oct 27 2016, 08:41 PM
heavensea
post Oct 28 2016, 12:39 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(LostAndFound @ Oct 28 2016, 12:25 AM)
That's why combining investment and insurance can be confusing. Consider this, imagine half the money you spent is for the 'investment' portion and half is for the 'insurance' portion. Suddenly your investment returns look much better right (at least better than FD). That's closer to what's happening, cannot just calculate based on money in and returns, because FD or investments won't pay out lump sum to you in event of disaster or illness.
*
in short, how they packaging doesn't change the fact that this plan isn't worth to keep at all.

Buy a "good" medical card, studies and learn to invest money in the right place is the way to go.

Rojak this and that is never good,
after all it's business, I wouldn't blame anyone unless myself to commit into such plan.

At least I didn't fell into mlm/ponzi shyt lo.. just considering this is as forcefully saving all these years.

Peace out, gd night.

This post has been edited by heavensea: Oct 28 2016, 12:40 AM
heavensea
post Oct 28 2016, 06:43 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(LostAndFound @ Oct 28 2016, 06:24 AM)
Only you can calculate whether your plan worth keeping. Why so arbitrary saying 'break even' when, if your other investments are really better performing you could be better off cancelling immediately? Sunk cost fallacy?
*
Surrender now = sunk "lost" incurred around 6k.

opportunity cost (oc) is not the same as sunk cost (sc) as I mentioned, imo oc is the lost that I didn't generate profits because of my bad decision but sc is ACTUAL LOST.

about your doubt,
I need 3.5 years to generate projection profits in order just to break even sunk lost of 6k with the surrender value I receive. (If I surrender by now)

but I would lost nothing of my capital (only opportunity cost) if I surrender after 4 years from now on. And I also have "larger lum sum" of surrender value to aim for something bigger, maybe a property dp?

This plan is not worth to keep, thought it "was good" during I signed it because I was feeble and know nothing about financial. I was dota boy only lolzzz.
heavensea
post Oct 28 2016, 10:04 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(LostAndFound @ Oct 28 2016, 09:57 AM)
And how much money will you be throwing at them in these 4 years in order to avoid your 'actual lost'? If RMX, then you're spending RMX to earn 6k in these 4 years.

If ROI is really worse than your 'other investments', those other investments would make you more than 6k in these 4 years (with RMX going there rather than to your insurance). If they cant the this investment/insurrance not so bad right? But there's no reason to keep for 4 years just to chase your arbitrary concept of "no loss" which is actually loss of interest cumulated.
*
bro you really got the point.. like hitting my head with wood stick lol. I'll talk to insurance agent asap to discuss about actual amount I receive if I surrender right now. I think the agent would try her very best way to convince me not to surrender zzz.
heavensea
post Oct 28 2016, 10:17 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(LostAndFound @ Oct 28 2016, 09:57 AM)
And how much money will you be throwing at them in these 4 years in order to avoid your 'actual lost'? If RMX, then you're spending RMX to earn 6k in these 4 years.

If ROI is really worse than your 'other investments', those other investments would make you more than 6k in these 4 years (with RMX going there rather than to your insurance). If they cant the this investment/insurrance not so bad right? But there's no reason to keep for 4 years just to chase your arbitrary concept of "no loss" which is actually loss of interest cumulated.
*
after 4 years,
I would get more rm3376 assume I've sureender by now and re-invested into the other pool.

It's not very much of different.. should I keep it first, in case I've change my mind after 4 yrs?

This post has been edited by heavensea: Oct 28 2016, 10:24 AM
heavensea
post Oct 29 2016, 02:25 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(ckdenion @ Oct 29 2016, 01:31 AM)
of course agent will convince u not to surrender. but come to think of it, u mentioned that when u start that time u know little about financial planning and u were just a dota boy (maybe some dota boys are good in financial planning). now, u know what suits u and what not. so as long as u know what u r doing and have a better understanding in other investment vehicle and can commit to save and earn from there, then i believe u can make better decision now compared to last time rolleyes.gif
check your projection table from ur policy contract. we cannot decide for you. you know what's the best for yourself now.
*
Thanks sir, I gonna make my own decision as a big boy now. smile.gif
heavensea
post Oct 29 2016, 10:22 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 29 2016, 09:58 AM)
GIP is especially good for those have no discipline in saving and spending.

By getting this plan, you are "forced" to save the money (premium paid), and you get certain amount of money each year which you can spend/use or whatever.

It also can be useful tool to distribute wealth to children or next in kin, by distributing certain amount of money each year,  instead of giving big lump sum in one shot, that may not good for them if suddenly big lump sum amount which they can spend on.

It is a financial planning tool, the purpose is not primary for wealth creation.
*
Thanks for your feedbacks,
I think those people has discipline to save since they are be able to pay premium monthly, quarterly or yearly. The good thing is the money locked inside, so it can't be take out and spend easily.

learnt something about the tool of wealth distribution tool, I'm totally agreed about your point. I'm not a person who lack of discipline to save anymore, and this plan doesn't fit my purposes of saving in current stage of my life.

I believe I can "park" or use the money as better resources by surrender the plan asap because I've much clearer picture of what I want.

again, thanks for your advise.
heavensea
post Nov 5 2016, 07:52 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
Hi all,
my current standalone medical card, RM7XX premium/year with:
140k per annum
No annual limit

I'm at the end of 20s, should I keep this plan "until I'm old" (of course it will be super duper.expensive when I'm "old") or I should have change to investment link policy, RM26xx premium/year with:
1million per annum
No annual limit

However my agent told me that since I've done gastroscopy (the result is benign) and appendicitis operation with the standalone medical card, so the insurance company will not insured my "stomach" when I bought the new medical card with investment link (RM26xx).. she advise me to keep both which is kinda costly for.. is it truth or myth?

that's why I've been thinking why not I just keep the standalone medical card (for 3x years) with 140k annual limit.. but I'm also afraid of 140k is never enough for medical bills in the future.

This post has been edited by heavensea: Nov 5 2016, 08:00 AM
heavensea
post Nov 5 2016, 08:22 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(Holocene @ Nov 5 2016, 08:18 AM)
You can apply and wait for the offer letter then make your decision. The decision to cover or not depends on the underwriting department. You never know.
*
Thanks for the feedbacks, do I charge for anything during waiting for apply? My agent want to charge my cc for half year premium, that's why I don't want to proceed..

And i would keep my standalone mc only, for the rest of my life. Cons is annual limit 140k, pros is no life time limit.
heavensea
post Nov 5 2016, 10:23 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(Holocene @ Nov 5 2016, 10:09 AM)
There is no hard and fast rule how many months your credit card should be charged. Request for monthly payment then, usually the company will charge 2 months premium in the first payment.

You need to declare your past medical history during the application. Wait for the deferment letter and see what needs to be done or if your existing report can be used.

If at the end, you are not satisfied with the terms provided by the insurance company you can choose to decline the offer. You will then receive your refund minus some expenses (medical check up fee and etc) if incurred.
*
thanks sir,
your advise is I opt for 2 months premium to be charge when I sign the new medical card, but if I can ask for refund if I'm not satisfied that they refuse to cover my stomach health?

actually I don't understand why simply gastroscopy (result is benign) and appendicitis opetation would caused them don't exclude this in my future medical plan.. after all, gastrocopy=medical check up and appendicitis operation is very usual operation...

This post has been edited by heavensea: Nov 5 2016, 10:26 AM
heavensea
post Nov 6 2016, 11:21 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(MNet @ Nov 6 2016, 10:48 AM)
u should upgrade
*
Annual limit too low?
heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 03:31 AM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
Attached Image

Hi guys, I've few questions regarding this AIA investment plan I've mentioned in tgis thread (few months ago).

Regarding insurance:
1) What's Basic Cash value? Do I get it when I decided to stop this plan?
2) How much of money that I can get if I surrender as at 33 years old?
3) Why this investment plan (projection returns) like not growing money?


Regarding money invested vs Returns:
4) How it's calculated? I feel like I would "lose more money" if I didn't surrender asap...
5) I've do many calculations before (based on my shallow knowledge). The returns of my plan is worse than I park my money in FD = 5915.5 x 10 years FD (3.5% per annum)
6) Should I surrender it ASAP to "admit lose" to cut lose?

Thanks everyone for read this, good night. smile.gif
heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 01:56 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(Holocene @ Jan 26 2017, 08:21 AM)
1) I believe that would be your "capital" plus penalty should you surrender early
2) please refer to the non guarantee section of your surrender value. Again this is a projection it could differ but the guarantee portion will be guaranteed. So to speak.
3) You sure this is an investment plan? Seems more like a saving plan to me
4) What was your intention when you signed up? Investment or saving?
6) If you can comfortably save the amount then there is no point surrendering it.

A successful saving plan is not because of the RM40 you earn interest on but the fact that you actually saved RM1000. If you are saving only 10% of your annual income into these saving plan I would say that's quite manageable however if you are saving 50% of your income here... then that might be a problem for your financial growth.

Best,
Jiansheng
*
Thanks jiansheng for your kindly replied,
3) This is a savings plan? No wonder returns so low...
4) I was tend to invest.
6) Yes I can, but I feel it (the plan) doesn't good because the returns are so low... (for initial years) can't even in par with 3.5% FD rate. However it offered protection & FD offered liquidity.

I heard many bad rumors about I can't even get back the 60k I've invested when I tend to surrender when it's "matuted"... I feel like naik kereta ad.
heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 02:04 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(adele123 @ Jan 26 2017, 08:25 AM)
1) Basic Cash Value is when you surrender, that's the minimum you will get. There's also the dividends, which are not guaranteed.
2) Minimum 39550. If you wait long enough and get the cash payment, another 2000. (there might be some pro-rate if you pay in monthly mode, etc, or deduct some in return, but this is the general idea)

+ you may get dividends projected at additional 15k to 20k (the 61k and 56k is inclusive of the 39k and 2k mentioned above).

3) Cause you get back the RM2000. you need to take into account the RM2000 that you get back

4) the later you surrender, the bigger quantum of money you lose. but if you continue to keep the money with AIA, you are projected to get 400k when you are 88.
5) so based on my calculation of 5915.5 for 10 years, and getting back that 400k when you are 88, plus the in between the 2k you get every year, your return is about 4.6%. Refer attachment.
6) depends. you need to do a cost-benefit analysis. My advice is your analysis, should take a greater focus on what you can do with the money now.
(but in a nut shell, if you bought this policy for 9 years already, of course, just pay the final year, keep it until you are 88, but if just bought for 1 year, then you want better returns, i think plenty out there)
*
Thanks adele! For the IRR calculations and feedbacks.

3) I did the calculations take account of RM2k I got and reinvested into somewhere else for another 10 years (2000x10x5.5% p.a.)

4) 5) 88 y.o is very very unpractical, we all know that right.. this's what made this plan looks bad..

6) Already wet my hairs, this plan isn't what I want. I've wasted many money into such savings plan without any return in the first 10 years...

heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 02:14 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(lifebalance @ Jan 26 2017, 08:27 AM)
1. That's the guaranteed cash value you're getting, for the full lump sum you'll have to look at the total surrender value

2. Look at the year 33 surrender value

3. How much return are you expecting when you're just pumping in money for the next 10 years only instead of whole life?

4. The returns is definitely higher than FD in the long run as it offers insurance protection which FD doesn't and you are able to nominate that money to someone compared to FD which will be frozen upon death and you're able to claim income tax rebate which FD doesn't

5. No you should not surrender the policy
*
Thanks lifebalance. smile.gif

3) The plan is lower than 3.5 which is unacceptable for me. (Because the liquidity is 0) what's the point I allow them handle my money for so long? Not to mention the 1st 10 years=zero return.. why don't I save by myself with liquidity without locked up my money? But it does offered protection though.. that's it.

4) long run is very unpractical for my honest opinion, I've wasted 1st 10 years (which is important) of pumping my money without liquidity & zero returns... what's this for?

5) sigh, I'm worry AIA can't even delivered the future returns. Which means the longer they hold my money, bigger lost I gonna suffer.
heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 02:15 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(lifebalance @ Jan 26 2017, 01:59 PM)
Rumors from other insurance agent? rolleyes.gif
*
from few friends who surrendered for their parents after the plan "matured", no offence but it's AIA plan as well.

After 1st 10 years, it can't even protect the total injected capital money. I feel like losing confidence about their projection returns... (I know this isn't guarantee on blk and white) I feel like want to take back my money and handle by myself but I gonna suffer of "confirmed/actual lost" if I do so.. sad.gif

This post has been edited by heavensea: Jan 26 2017, 02:15 PM
heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 02:22 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(ckdenion @ Jan 26 2017, 12:50 PM)
*
Thanks ckdenion, I feel upset about the 1st 10 years zero returns. I hands up those money in vain (lost opportunity costs) and let them locked up my money liquidity for nothing..

May I know what's the theory they offered zero % interest/returns for customers? We only started to gain peanut after 10 years? Not to mention previous money value is much higher than current money value..

In short:
1) 0 returns & liquidity in the 1st 10 years
2) 1st 10 years is crucial for every man to make some fortune, I can save those money to pay for property dp/investing in UT or REITs... I feel like being an idiot gonna wasting those 60k in insurance policy without returns for 10 years.

This post has been edited by heavensea: Jan 26 2017, 02:26 PM
heavensea
post Jan 26 2017, 02:25 PM

Look at all my stars!!
*******
Senior Member
9,616 posts

Joined: Dec 2013
QUOTE(lifebalance @ Jan 26 2017, 02:21 PM)
These kind of plan is where you put in your surplus money aside a.k.a diversification.

Don't mix it up with your other bulk of money as "investment"

Please make up ur mind that Savings is putting aside the money for low risk investments

Whereas investment is where you put your money into high risk investments to get higher return.

Savings is something you can fall back on in the event you lose all your investment.

Have a sound financial planning for yourself rather than just thinking about "I just want high return investments". Never put all your money into one basket.
*
I feel upset about the 1st 10 years zero returns. I hands up those money in vain (lost opportunity costs) and let them locked up my money liquidity for nothing..

May I know what's the theory they offered zero % interest/returns for customers? We only started to gain peanut after 10 years? Not to mention previous money value is much higher than current money value..

In short:
1) 0 returns & liquidity in the 1st 10 years
2) 1st 10 years is crucial for every man to make some fortune, I can save those money to pay for property dp/investing in UT or REITs... I feel like being an idiot that I gonna wasting those 60k in insurance policy.

Topic ClosedOptions
 

Change to:
| Lo-Fi Version
0.0857sec    0.21    7 queries    GZIP Disabled
Time is now: 3rd December 2025 - 06:39 AM