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 Fraud issues

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TSHolocene
post Nov 30 2015, 10:32 AM, updated 9y ago

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The issues is as follows:

1 - Long serving (19 years witih Company) staff stole money.

2 - Got caught due to sloppy handling of the evidence, did not dispose properly.

3 - Said only started stealing since January 2015.

4 - Amount traced up to February 2015 approximately RM40k.

5 - Said money stolen used to help sister to get out of debt.

6 - Later admit she's been stealing for 2 - 3 years.

7 - Plans to sell car and house to pay back debt.

She is willing to pay back the money but I would like to know how others have handled fraud cases before. If she goes to jail and declare bankruptcy technically we can't get the monies back right?


T231H
post Nov 30 2015, 10:36 AM

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if she stopped paying you back the money...how?

how to set examples for your other staffs....if you did not have the 'thief" penalized to the max of law?
TSHolocene
post Nov 30 2015, 11:00 AM

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QUOTE(T231H @ Nov 30 2015, 10:36 AM)
if she stopped paying you back the money...how?

how to set examples for your other staffs....if you did not have the 'thief" penalized to the max of law?
*
That's the reason I'm seeking advice and wanting to hear from experienced individuals.


METALRAGE
post Nov 30 2015, 11:04 AM

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Hi TS,
I have a similar experience. We reported the incident to the police with all the evidence gathered. The police said they would get on it (we were hopeful) but never did offer much except for some false to investigate to the bottom of it (there was a single perp in the office and 2 other perps outside the office) which never came thru.

We could press charges, but decided not to. We just worked out a deal with the perp (the one working inside) to pay back a certain amount rather than go thru the hassle.

Justice was not served. I'd say just cut your losses.
smartinvestor01
post Nov 30 2015, 11:10 AM

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QUOTE(Holocene @ Nov 30 2015, 10:32 AM)
The issues is as follows:

1 - Long serving (19 years witih Company) staff stole money.

2 - Got caught due to sloppy handling of the evidence, did not dispose properly.

3 - Said only started stealing since January 2015.

4 - Amount traced up to February 2015 approximately RM40k.

5 - Said money stolen used to help sister to get out of debt.

6 - Later admit she's been stealing for 2 - 3 years.

7 - Plans to sell car and house to pay back debt.

She is willing to pay back the money but I would like to know how others have handled fraud cases before. If she goes to jail and declare bankruptcy technically we can't get the monies back right?
*
From what i see, you should report the case to the police..

Its not that it have to be that cruel but you need to show that this is serious offense that the other staffs should not follow..

Because once you are kind in this dealing, your staff will watch and might think that they could do the same thing..

This is experienced by my friend's company.. icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by smartinvestor01: Nov 30 2015, 11:12 AM
WaCKy-Angel
post Nov 30 2015, 11:11 AM

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QUOTE(Holocene @ Nov 30 2015, 10:32 AM)
The issues is as follows:

1 - Long serving (19 years witih Company) staff stole money.

2 - Got caught due to sloppy handling of the evidence, did not dispose properly.

3 - Said only started stealing since January 2015.

4 - Amount traced up to February 2015 approximately RM40k.

5 - Said money stolen used to help sister to get out of debt.

6 - Later admit she's been stealing for 2 - 3 years.

7 - Plans to sell car and house to pay back debt.

She is willing to pay back the money but I would like to know how others have handled fraud cases before. If she goes to jail and declare bankruptcy technically we can't get the monies back right?
*
Technically u cant do anything but report police and if she afraid of bring jailed, she could sell her belongings to repay back or by installment.
But no gusrantee she will not default.

And worst if police doesnt even care.

Just like a staff stole my condo management money and police report done, but nk idea what outcome.
But management says the money is "insured" no idea how, maybe claim insurance under theft category.

TSHolocene
post Nov 30 2015, 11:15 AM

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QUOTE(METALRAGE @ Nov 30 2015, 11:04 AM)
Hi TS,
I have a similar experience. We reported the incident to the police with all the evidence gathered. The police said they would get on it (we were hopeful) but never did offer much except for some false to investigate to the bottom of it (there was a single perp in the office and 2 other perps outside the office) which never came thru.

We could press charges, but decided not to. We just worked out a deal with the perp (the one working inside) to pay back a certain amount rather than go thru the hassle.

Justice was not served. I'd say just cut your losses.
*
I'd imagine it would be hard to recover the amount especially if it's involving individuals. We're estimating the amount stolen could be well be above RM150k based on the current trend and her suggestion to sell her car and house.

It's so sickening to see my parents having to individually check the days that she's worked due to the nature of the accounting, only they know the value.

I suggested that whatever amount they've gathered they should charge additional time cost to rectify this crime committed.

The individual keeps pleading not to press charges due to dependents that are still very young.
simplecated
post Nov 30 2015, 11:20 AM

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19 years just stealing 40k. Ermmm...better settle sendiri la, pesalah oso willing to pay back and myb after settle u can fired the worker.
TSHolocene
post Nov 30 2015, 11:44 AM

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QUOTE(simplecated @ Nov 30 2015, 11:20 AM)
19 years just stealing 40k. Ermmm...better settle sendiri la, pesalah oso willing to pay back and myb after settle u can fired the worker.
*
40k in just 10 months. We have not completed the audit but based on what she said could be around 150k and above.

Thats a huge amount if you come from a small town and salary is below 2k.
smartinvestor01
post Nov 30 2015, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(WaCKy-Angel @ Nov 30 2015, 11:11 AM)
Technically u cant do anything but report police and if she afraid of bring jailed, she could sell her belongings to repay back or by installment.
But no gusrantee she will not default.

And worst if police doesnt even care.

Just like a staff stole my condo management money and police report done, but nk idea what outcome.
But management says the money is "insured" no idea how, maybe claim insurance under theft category.
*
I agreed with this..

In my point of view, the enforcement in our nation are quite weak..

If really the person default, I am quite doubtful of what the police would do to the suspect..
WaCKy-Angel
post Nov 30 2015, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(Holocene @ Nov 30 2015, 11:15 AM)
I'd imagine it would be hard to recover the amount especially if it's involving individuals. We're estimating the amount stolen could be well be above RM150k based on the current trend and her suggestion to sell her car and house.

It's so sickening to see my parents having to individually check the days that she's worked due to the nature of the accounting, only they know the value.

I suggested that whatever amount they've gathered they should charge additional time cost to rectify this crime committed.

The individual keeps pleading not to press charges due to dependents that are still very young.
*
Report police and be cruel, force her to sell her belongings.
She can rent house if required.

If possible dont drag to court coz if someone smart enough to teach her tricks then say bye bye to ur money.

U can still employ her but do not let her handle accounts or purchasing.
zeb kew
post Nov 30 2015, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(Holocene @ Nov 30 2015, 10:32 AM)
She is willing to pay back the money but I would like to know how others have handled fraud cases before. If she goes to jail and declare bankruptcy technically we can't get the monies back right?
*

I just want to point out here that Malaysian bankruptcy law do not work the same way as the American one. It is NOT the case that once a person declares bankruptcy, he gets to start afresh with a clean state. The DGI gets to decide when to release a person from bankruptcy, and in the meantime, he/she has to repay the debt.

Heard of one guy who owned a transport company, but one of his lorry drivers killed somebody during his work. He had no insurance for vicarious liability, and after the bankruptcy, for 20-30 years till he retired, he worked low paying jobs trying to pay off the debts. Never did.

 

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