Etigge,
Need to learn more u.
Even if use a 10 speed RD, I can set the limit screws of both end to correspond to my 8 speed cogs, and the gear switch are solely determined by my 8 speed shifter pull. So, technically I can still use my 8 speed altus shifter to operate the 10 speed rated derailleur, on my 11-32t cogs.
Am I getting the complete picture, or did miss out something gravely crucial. Do I need to worry about pull ratios differences btw mtb shifters and road Rd?

I don't believe you can cross mtb shifters/derailieurs with road ones. RDs are dumb and controlled by the shifter. You are correct in saying that the range of gears can be covered using the limit screws. Important thing is the pull ratio of the shifter, whether it is 2:1 or 1:1. If the shifter and RD matches this ratio, then you should be able to use say an 8 speed shifter with a 10 speed RD.

I never said you can't use the Altus to operate a 10 speed RD. It can be use. The length of each gear pull or indexing is determine by the shifter. So, the RD just corresponds to the distance or length pulled or released. The limiters are there to limit the travel of the cage so the chains won't go over the limits, else it will fall out of the cogs. The total gap of the 8, 9 and 10 speed are the same. It is just the thickness of the cogs and distance apart from each cogs. Hence, the same hubs can either house 8, 9 or 10 speed cassettes. As for 11 speed, they are different and now 12 speed is coming out as the trend is now going for single chainring setups with smaller chainring and larger cassettes, so far up to 50 teeth now for the largest rear cogs.

The pull ratio is the same only that road bike shifters has something we call 'quarter shift' which shifts a little bit of the FD position to avoid chain rub on the FD. Nothing to do with the back setup. Go ahead and try it out. Never try never know, right? If you have to be so certain of everything before you try out, you won't go anywhere!

PS/I do know is that SRAMs shifters need SRAMs RDs and are not interchangeble between the 2 brands. Ironically, Microshift shifters can be use on both systems. The pull ratio of the 2 main systems are different. But for FD operations, both are interchangeable, only the rear operations differs.

This post has been edited by etigge: Sep 8 2016, 08:55 PM

Thx for all the info etigge and desastar. Certainly has a clearer picture now, and look for the replacement RD.
Hopefully the change with sort out the noise thats bugging me.

i've use shimano 8speed shifter with my tiagra 10s rd. no problemo with just a fine tune. do remember u cant mix mtb shifter with 105 rd or higher coz the pull ratio are not the same.

i had my speed p8 using shimano 105 rd with deore 10s shifter before, but what i get is only can shift 8speed with 10s casette.at 1st i was thinking to save my budget on adopting mtb shifter (deore shifter rm130, tiagra shifter rm290).problem solve when i change to tiagra 10s flatbar shifter.that law apply to all shimano product..

but when im using sram on my tern,
my previous setup used sram x5 (9speed) with 10speed force rd, the shifting are really smooth (of coz with some fine tune). after a while i upgrade to sram red 10s rd with sram x5 10s shifter and the shifting are working like charm. for what i see, the pull ratio on sram component either road or mtb are the same..

When I used the Shimano SL-R760 it cost me RM330 then. Then it was replaced with SL-R770 but I did not use it and then now it is the SL-R780. I got this when I put in a Tiagra groupset into my velo and it cost me RM450 for this. There is also the SL-RS700 now fopr the 11 speed roadbike components. This cost RM580 for just the shifters but online sales site, they are almost the same price. The shops here are taking advantage of the situation where it is harder to find here.

I used the Tiagra before but the shift was not really accurate, then again , nowadays the Tiagra shifters cost RM360 already compared to RM200 I got from Kimbell Jaya 3 years ago! Azamunekurone, try to change to the SL-R780 , you will see the difference.

My wife's Boardwalk uses the Alivio 9 speed shifters (mtb) and paired with Shimano 2300 FD and Shimano Tiagra RD before and it works OK. In fact that was the last setup before I sold it off.

If you look at Shimano's spec sheet and compatibility chart, almost nothing different can be matched. It is sometimes their gimmick to increase sales and forever making riders upgrade. Just like 8 speed to 10 speed and then to 11 speed and now 12 speed is in the works. After that , they have no more ideas, they started to lessen the chainrings and now they come out with wider rear hubs. This will never end. It is up to us mix and match and try to use our experience to overcome it. Shimano is the 'KING' of all this gimmicks.

hahhaha
budget wise, i will stick to the tiagra shifter. besides, i already tune perfectly with my shortcage rd to workout with my tiagra 12-30 casette.like u said,i tested before the tiagra flatbar shifter with my ultegra rd, and the shifting are bad. maybe need to find SL-R780 for good shifting. nevertheless, i stick to 105 rd since the ultegra matches with my ultegra sti on my roadbike..

maybe later i dont know. got both sram & shimano makes me think twice before upgrading. both got pro and con.for the time being, i stick for what i have with no upgrades accept i upgrade my skill, leg and riding expirience..

Don't forget the chain. I recently replaced the cranks and RD to 105 10 speed, but using the existing 9 speed shifter. Works well but occasionally it wouldn't shift a gear up or down or sometimes changes up two gears. Can't fine tune, but when I decided to try using an Ultegra 10 speed chain, all of a sudden all the shifting problems went away!

Hi Guys, any recommendations as to where I can buy a Tern Verge X20 or the old X30H at competitive prices?

The Tern Verge X20 is sold at a ridiculous RM11,600 and the Tern Verge X10 is RM7,300 The lowest rung for Tern Verge is the N8 selling at RM3,200, same frame.

Let's say, Buy the Tern Verge N8, take off the wheelset, put in a Lite Pro rims (make sure it can take 11 speed) on it for another RM1,500, take off all groupset, get the Shimano 105/11 speed for RM1800 or the Shimano Ultegra for RM2,600. So now your purchase is RM3,200 + RM1,500 + RM2,600 = RM7,300.

Factor in Kimbell Jaya's labour cost to install , another RM200 and FD adapter, another RM100, Aiyah! Let's say RM8,000 for a Tern Verge X22. So, you sell off the Ultegra STI shifters for RM700 and the rims and grouspset for another RM500, and the whole setup cost RM6,800 , give and take RM300. If you use the Shimano 105 which is already very good, it is around 6K only. In fact, you can change the handlebar, handlebar post, and everything to Lite Pro components and it is still around the price. Don't change the cranks lah, good to have a whole groupset.

The drawback is, you don't get the Tern Verge's top end exciting color and sadly this is the biggest motivation for many to buy. Prestige but not performance.

RM11,600 for a Tern?? No thanks!

meet sifu etigge,
didnt care about the tyre he gave me, but have nice chat with him. sadly im in a hurry to bring my kids to the zoo. will had long chat with u later etigge..

whatsapp me when ur coming to ipoh. maybe i free and drop by to chat with u, sir!

just upgraded my garion 6 speed to GTA 21 speed 20" foldie....

any 1 going this? issit open monthly??


http://www.klcarfreemorning.com/

sifu etigge, do the verge n8 n p9 hv the same frame as verge x20?

picture tells a thousand words



verge x20 vs verge p9
verge 406 vs verge 451

cost of modified the verge p9?
more cheaper than buying verge x20. even mine are complete sram red component (rd,fd,crank,caliper~buying used groupset+carbon fork) compare to verge x20 (rd x0, fsa carbon crank~same like sram red carbon crank, ultegra casette, sram force fd).

the kinetic x-pro wheelset cost only rm1.5k at rodalink..

Finally I got Apidura seat bag from Thailand

Apidura Handlebar Bag

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&...-Yy1SgYUhtXgMcg

Ride, Camp, Repeat

P9 also describes the Link , As long as the model says Verge, they are basically the same frame. Only the paintwork differs and components.

This is the cheapest Verge N8 RM3200



While this is the Verge X10 RM7,300



And this is the Verge X20 RM11,600



The difference between the 3 are the groupsets and the wheelsets and tires. The rest are the same. As a guide, the most sought after groupset from Shimano is the Ultegra costing about RM2,600 and the Kinetix Pro wheelsets cost about RM1,500. A pair of Schwalbe Marathon Racers or Kojak is RM300. So, go figure yourself

PS/ Offf course nowadays, Shimano Ultegras comes in 11 speeds. Since wheelsets is also changed , might as well get wheelsets capable of 11 speed as well.

This post has been edited by etigge: Sep 12 2016, 01:01 PM

just to add on a few point from what etigge saying,

1. handlepost
the verge x10/20 used tbar physis 3d handlepost height around 35cm while the P siries use qr handlepost height 39cm. u can bought the handlepost around rm450

2. syntace vro stem
the verge x10/20 used this stem, while P siries use non.u can buy this stem around rm180

3. syntace lighten seatpost and handlebar, kore saddle, ergon grip and others
well, this one u can customize urself. still have option worth like litepro or gub component that will not burn ur pocket

other than that, if u are crazy enough to build the color like x siries (repaint) the total cost will not over than buying x20 itself.

i calculated myself when converting my p9 wannabe x20. still cheaper and better component!

i heard before the x20 got cheaper as rm8.5k (my friend buy before), but that one in a million opportunity!