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 Working in Australia V2, All About working in Australia

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Garysydney
post Oct 12 2017, 10:41 AM

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QUOTE(Red_rustyjelly @ Oct 11 2017, 01:23 PM)
From what i heard, working holiday is really more like "work and holiday" where you can play after a few months of work. A friend of mine got his working holiday and his skills is actually high demand in Aussie. But non of the aussie company want to hire him unless he have a PR.

U can try to pave your way out with working holiday for the year and see how it goes. Maybe look for Malaysian or SG company operating in Aussie?
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Working holiday visa is meant for young people (low-skilled) who wants to travel (they work as they need to meet their travelling costs). I have seen many young pommies (on a working visa) in my company come and go over my entire working life (i have worked more than 30 years in Sydney now). They usually are very young and would work in very junior positions for a few months and they would move on. Their motive is to travel and enjoy when you are young. Most employers who employ them are also orang putih. These young people usually don't want to hang around too long as all they want to do is experience travelling in Aust.

Not many employers would want to employ workers on holiday visa due to the fact that they are supposed to be temps and are short-term workers. I have not seen many of these young holiday-visa holders anymore as there are so many job applicants whenever positions are advertised. You used to advise for a position and no-one would apply for it (this was the situation when i came to Aust more than 30 years ago). The position that i am now in had only me as the sole applicant in the 80s. I am one of the 'lucky' baby boomers but life is Aust is now getting tougher especially for young migrants. I am in a semi-government organisation and in those days, you have a superannuation called 'defined-benefit' super scheme which gives you about 8 times of your final salary after you have worked 30 years which means if your last salary before you retire is 100k, you will roughly have 800k in your defined-benefit super (plus you can still contribute extra to another superfund if you want to retire with more). All that is now gone and there are not as many opportunities for young people anymore in Aust.
Garysydney
post Oct 31 2017, 04:52 AM

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No wonder the young Chinese couple who were caught plucking fruits in Adelaide (on Border Force tv program) said they applied for Protection visa (which the Immigration officers said were rejected and they were advised) before overstaying. I didn't know you could do that as a Malaysian (thought Protection visas were for citizens of countries trying to escape their countries due to war).

I know if you are a transgender, it is quite easy to get PR in Aust. So many transgender in Chinatown Sydney nowadays - all mostly Thai. Can tell easily from their voice.
Garysydney
post Oct 31 2017, 10:29 AM

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When i was doing my Masters in 1984 (overseas student), i was living in a 2 bedroom unit in Randwick which my parents bought. I had a spare room as i was single and only needed one room. I then knew an lady from Ipoh (related to a good friend of mine) who was illegal. She needed somewhere to stay as her textile factory in Ipoh has gone burst. She was in her thirties and husband was still back in Ipoh. I allowed her to stay in my extra bedroom in return for cooking and cleaning my unit. She eventually got a job in near Chinatown (Surry Hills) and was able to save all her money as she didn't have to pay rent (i paid for all the groceries as well).

To cut a long story short, she managed to save enough to buy a clothes alteration business in the city (MLC Centre) and sponsored her whole family over (husband and 3 kids) despite being an illegal (she paid a lot of legal fees to migrate as she was initially an illegal). It was a lot easier in those days to save money and jobs were plentiful then.
Garysydney
post Oct 31 2017, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(Monya Meow Meow @ Oct 31 2017, 01:51 PM)
The husband is lucky to have such a hardworking wife
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The husband was the reason why she came over to Sydney. The husband was having an affair with one of the factory's staff and they have 3 young kids. I still remembered the mother missed the kids so much that whenever she called she would cry over the phone when speaking with the kids. What a bastard of a husband!! Finally it was the wife who managed to sponsor the whole family over with her hard work (she used to start very early and worked till very late but she would tell me what to do with the food in the fridge (which she already prepared the night before). She also nearly got raped by the Greek 'humsap' boss - she was not pretty but when the boss knows you are illegal, they become very daring. She quit that job as soon as(clothes factory worker) she found another one. In those days there were plenty of jobs unlike now. I remembered all my Uni friends would change job every couple of years - jobs were plentiful then. That is why the workers in those days are today's baby boomers (they are the luckiest generation unlike now where current generation finds it very difficult to make ends meet in Sydney).
Garysydney
post Nov 1 2017, 03:59 AM

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QUOTE(Monya Meow Meow @ Oct 31 2017, 04:38 PM)
Did she have to sponsor the husband over as well as part of the policy? Such a guy should let him rot back in Malaysia I would have thought...
I do agree with the last part about making ends meet for the current generation.
In Sydney, you can barely buy an apartment let alone a house.
It is slightly better here in Melbourne but generally speaking, still quite impossible to own your own property without some help.
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Usually women and to a lesser extent men want to keep the family together esp when there are young kids involved. I have seen a lot of relationships breakdown in Aust (among migrant families). This was rare among migrants 25 years ago and apparently reason of breakups is usually finanical (probably due loss of income in family). As you probably know, migrants face a lot of hurdles when they come to Aust esp if parents don't have the capability to help out. Look the the abc (Aust-born Chinese) - i have a lot of Malaysian friends who have got grown-up kids in Sydney and all need financial help from parents. They would definitely have the upper hand compared to migrant kids from Msia in looking for a job because they act and talk like Aussies. A lot of these abcs think highly of themselves (very egoistic) and have a tendency to look down on migrants - they have a sense of superiority. These are also the kids that will eventually leave their parents in a nursing home and never visit them. I have seen so many of these examples in my circle of friends here in Sydney that a lot of them regretted having children (when someone tells you that they shouldn't have had any kids eventhough they do, you know for sure there is problems in the family!).

Concerning property price in Sydney and Melb, Sydney is slowly coming down now while Melb looks like it is still going up. Very difficult for younger generation to buy in without some kind of help from mum and dad. A lot of Sydneysiders (mainly older people) are slowly moving out of Sydney to cheaper cities. We have a few younger Malaysians badminton players in our group and they migrated in the last few years and all are able to buy only with parents help.
Garysydney
post Nov 1 2017, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Nov 1 2017, 09:05 AM)
the same everywhere i suppose, Singapore as well when it comes to old folks...

its either you as parents migrate now and start from zero or the kid(s) migrate later which will get tougher over time...
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Wages in all the capital cities in Aust are not very different - probably at most 10% more but housing prices differ a lot. When you compare Perth and Sydney, Perth property prices are roughly half Sydney prices. If you work in Perth or Adelaide and buy there, young people find it affordable (maybe even without needing parents help). However, these cities residential property prices are cheaper because it is harder to get jobs in those cities (Perth, Adelaide, Brisbane and Hobart). Melbourne property is slightly cheaper than Sydney but job market is a similar - job market in these 2 cities are much better than say, Perth or Adelaide or Brisbane.

In my group of Malaysian friends who have migrated to Sydney, there are some who would have done a lot better in Malaysia. They struggle in their careers here and they were in very senior positions when they were in Msia. They calculated that they would have been better off working in Msia and then sending their kids here to do their Uni. The parents were a little disappointed in that their children have developed 'problematic personalities' (western kid personalities) and this probably wouldn't happen if kids were brought up in Msia. Most of my friends will eventually end up in nursing homes (there is no way kids will look after their parents here esp abc kids). Abc kids are only interested in 1 thing and that is their inheritance. In Aust, you can even sue your parents if you feel that their will is unfair so we spend a lot of money to make sure the wills are 'un-challengeable'. You will only realise problems faced by parents (with abc kids) after you have lived here a while. We have more than 15 couples in our Msian circle of friends who used to play badminton regularly at UNSW and the oldest one is 80 years old. I don't have any kids myself so i don't face the problems that they have but because we are very close, we talk about those problems amongst us. A lot of Msians think life here in Aust is very rosy because a lot of old folks here don't want to bring out their dirty laundry to dry.
Garysydney
post Nov 1 2017, 12:08 PM

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I am glad i discovered this forum having lived in Sydney since 1981 (came here from Taylor's College) to do my Uni. I now understand people's attitudes a lot more after reading people's comments in this forum. See a lot of racist comments (like 'orang kita') which is openly displayed and written which shocked me initially. Guess i will see a lot more such attitudes when i go back to KL to retire - at least i know what to expect. None of my Msian friends know about this forum as i guess most of them will never ever go back to Msia to live.
Garysydney
post Nov 1 2017, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Nov 1 2017, 01:15 PM)
this sounds very f-ked up sweat.gif
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You must realise that Aust is a western cultured society which is very different from an Asian culture. Here in Aust, humilty and being filial is very much viewed as a weakness rather than strength so if you are outspoken and loud, you are viewed as extremely confident as is a major strength. The 2 cultures are viewed very differently being Asian cultures viewed as a weaker than the Western culture. Let's see the positive side if you are an abc - you are more likely to land yourself a job in Aust compared to one who grew up in Asia as abcs have the personality of a westerner and acts like one. This is exactly why people prefer to migrate later in life so that their kids retain (and remember) their Asian values when the kids grow up in Asia.
Garysydney
post Nov 2 2017, 03:10 AM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Nov 1 2017, 06:55 PM)
Even if you move only when the kids are bigger, you may avoid the "westernisation" of your kids, but your grandkids will still be ABCs and may still face the same problems....

But I do believe it is still possible to instill family values in ABCs, it's how you bring them up, the value system you have, etc....there is a critical mass of Asians in most cities for a microcosm of Asian culture to exist and florist...and enough practising Christians to retain religious values....

As to nursing homes, in the kind of Australian environment existing now (nuclear family, small housing, working couples, etc). It is not realistic to expect Asian style multi-generational extended family setting, and we have to accept aged and end of life care will most likely be outsourced (ie nursing homes)...

Finally, I never believe in leaving money for children when you die....the time they need your help is actually when they are just starting out....not when they are middle age and inheriting your wealth....
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When you analyse religions, you will realise that 'religious' people tend to be more family-orientated. Why is this so? Religions teach us humility, tolerance and a host of other behaviours that are more conducive to sharing. Sharing (as opposed to selfishness which is only me,me,me) is a very important human behaviour that leads to people sticking together and benefitting from it.

When you dig deeper into the 2 cultures (western vs Asian), you will realise that Western values are based more on an 'individual' whilst Asian is more family-based (consistent with the theory of sharing). This is why you see western kids being more independent than their Asian counterparts. Looking even more closely, you will see that western value has a hint of arrogance (pride or ego) which is why you will see them as being outspoken or full of opinions while Asian values are more humily-based (humble) and tend to be less outspoken. You can see in Aust, in religious families, family members are very close to each other because humility is one of their most important values.

Religions do keep families closer to each other in Aust BUT why is it that in Asian families, family members tend to be closer to each other compared to their Western counterparts? When you look closely, you will find that it is not religions that keep families close to each other but it is this human behaviour of 'sharing'. The main ingredient of 'sharing' is actually humility (or humbleness) which is more common in Asian cultures. We always associate Western cultures as being less family-orientated due to a lack of humily (arrogance).

In conculsion, if you want to keep your family closer, reduce the 'ego' (or pride) factor but this is a lot harder to do in real life. People sometimes confuse 'ego' with 'confidence' thinking they are the same thing but actually they are opposites.
Garysydney
post Nov 2 2017, 07:19 AM

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QUOTE(kenji1903 @ Nov 2 2017, 06:09 AM)
most western countries do not have holidays for Asian festivals... taking additional annual leave might not be the best option...

and it comes back to money... flying back with a family is more expensive than the parents coming over...

my brother came back once during CNY but after that he comes back only during Christmas, why? most shops and restaurants are closed during that period laugh.gif
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I also try and take my holidays in X'mas (got 2 weeks off for the whole organisation) to go back to KL rather than CNY. If you have a lot of close relatives and friends, it can be quite fun in Aust. We used to have a lot of parties (among our Msian group) but as we grow older, the hosts get a bit tired as you got to clean up after the parties (no Filipino maids to help out!). If we were in Msia, we would probably have parties every weekend. Most of us came over in the 70s and 80s and are all professionals (we are just an 'average' over here) which is why some of them said that they would have done much better in Msia. We have a Batu Pahat doctor in our group who was making RM10k/mth (early 70s) - he was a gynae and was covering all the red light districts!! Why would anyone like that come over? He then had to go back to being a GP here because he had to sit his gynae exams all over if he wanted to be a gynae in Aust. He was a Chung Ling boy.

Regarding your concerns that your grandchildren will be 'westernised' after you migrate, you are probably right about that. Actually being ABCs have their advantages too - they will find it a lot easier to get jobs in Aust compared to migrants. Though they have a tendency to look after themselves first, you will find ending up in a nursing home very normal here. A lot of old folks here (migrants) change their way of thinking after they migrate because they know that hoping your children will look after you is futile because that is how the society is. You hear a lot of stories (my eldest brother being one) who migrated and bought properties in their children's names and end up homeless because children kicked them out. This has become such a problem that you see it quite often brought up in the newspapers. When you migrate here nowadays, you will get a pamphlet telling you not to buy properties under your children's names (instead use a will to bequest) because the govt is left with a big welfare bill. My eldest brother came over as a business migrant bringing over quite a lot of money in 1990 but now is in a govt nursing home after the children chucked him out (children came over very young). House were all bought for the children by him and this is what you get!
Garysydney
post Nov 2 2017, 11:54 AM

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I like X'mas holidays because it is very quiet in the office Dec and Jan and it's also school holidays so a lot of parents take their kids go holiday. Also so much summer fruits cherries and mangoes. For me with no kids go back CNY need to give ang pow a lot but the atmosphere is nice and everyone is free. Also they expect more in ang pow because we are working overseas.
Garysydney
post Nov 3 2017, 03:06 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Nov 2 2017, 12:12 PM)
Aiyoh...those who want to migrate or have migrated are concern with politics (hence bad future outlook of Malaysia) and education of their kids. Future generation being westernized is less of a concern. You chose to live and bring up your family in a western world, but worry about their eastern value ? You cant get the best of both world lah

Anyway, If you still want your chiildren to practice selective Asians values, parents should teach them from young age. But if you don’t pass down your family value to them since young age, even you are in Malaysia, they will lose the family value also. If you are close to your kids, and spend a lot of time bringing them up, they will still be influenced by you. So the responsibility goes back to the parents. Don’t blame school teachers friends environment government like most Malaysian... Everybody is wrong but yourself...typical malaysian biggrin.gif

Best is you don’t expect kids to take care of you at old age. Plan for yourself. If they want to take care of you when you are old, then that is a bonus. From the point of view of your kids, aging parents and bedridden, it is such a burden. They have to sacrifice a lot if we take our own sweet time to die. If you love your kids, don’t burden them. Plan for yourself.
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When i newly joined this forum a few months back, i didn't understand the mentality of Msians (esp non-Chinese). In the last few weeks, i spent a lot more time reading the other threads (i don't like to go on the computer too long daily) and i am truly surprised at the things that are expressed (esp comments from non-Chinese). A lot of what was expressed is similar to remarks made in the earlier days of apartheid in Sth Africa! I was actually quite shocked because the comments were en-mass with huge crowds joining in. I don't normally like to get involved in politics so i just read casually but with some apprehension. I have been away since 1981 so it will be interesting when i do return to Msia to retire what i am going to find out. I now can fully comprehend the feelings of the minorities in Msia and why they see an extremely dark outlook for their future generations.
Garysydney
post Nov 3 2017, 12:36 PM

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I see a lot of young Msians who are in Uni and i would chat with them (i work in a uni too but not an academic) - all of them tell me they want to live in Aust because parents tell them not to go back. None so far have told me that they want to go back to Msia! I have also a few Singaporean students here in my faculty (Medicine) and none of them wants to stay back in Sydney!! What a difference between the 2 groups! I graduated in 1983 and only 15% of the Msian overseas students in my group stayed back and got PR (about 35% went to Spore to work) and the rest all went back to Msia. I still keep in touch with a lot of these Uni mates here in Sydney and also those in Msia/Spore.
Garysydney
post Nov 4 2017, 04:57 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Nov 3 2017, 08:44 AM)
Yea you will feel the true injustice and helplessness when you are on the ground. That makes so many people who truly love this home country decide to migrate. Migrating is not an easy decision and yet they rather to face the uncertainty and start afresh. That tells a lot of stories about malaysia.

Apartheid is the minority oppressing the majority. It will come to an end sooner or later. But if it is the other way around, which is the majority oppressing the minority, what could the minority do ?

In your case, treat your retirement in malaysia as an experiment. Never give up everything in Australia. Don't take the one off plunge by selling your house, super, everything.  You are in the privilege position to keep both places open. You never know what will happen here in the future.
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Thank you very much - you were the first person to respond to what i have been searching exhaustively(for more than 1 year), looking for advice on social media concerning coming back to KL to live. At that time, i didn't know left from right in LYN as i don't like to spend a lot of time on social media. I have been slightly more active in LYN in the past few weeks as i find that some of the posts are quite interesting. I was fortunate to stumble upon this forum as it gives me good insight into the thoughts of Msians. I didn't realise at that time that Msian wages is so low (no offence) - now i have a better understanding of the wages that people earn generally and cost of living there. I initially disagree with you about bringing my retirement funds back to KL but now i have a totally different view agreeing that it is best to leave the funds in Aust and just keep one to two years expenses in Msia.
Garysydney
post Nov 4 2017, 11:59 AM

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If i had kids, i probably would have preferred to stay back in Aust. My friends in Sydney all think i am crazy to go back to retire but my wife has no relatives at all in Sydney and she comes from a huge family and she is extremely close to them. I think there is something about being Hokkien (i am Hakka and my family defintely is not as closely knit as my wife's family)!
Garysydney
post Nov 6 2017, 04:14 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Nov 5 2017, 10:50 PM)
The next research you may want to consider embarking on will be your tax planning. Compare your passive investment income from Australia, against moving part/all of your portfolio to low tax country like Singapore. Some share investments like SReits is zero tax even if you are a foreigner
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I have 2 superfunds currently (State Super which is a defined benefit superfund and the other is Unisuper). Defined benefits are the cream of the superfunds as they give you a guaranteed employer contribution which is dependent on your final salary and number of years worked. Nearly all the defined benefit funds are gone now as it is sending the govt bankrupt (way too generous!). Defined benefits super were very popular in 80s and 90s.

My Unisuper is where i put in excess contributions (max before tax of 25k/yr incl empoyer's contribution). This is like topping up our super because super is the one of the most important tool for lowering your taxes esp when you start going over the 37% tax bracket (earning over 87k). Unisuper has been one of the best performing fund (https://www.unisuper.com.au/investments/investment-options-and-performance) in Aust - i am heavily ivested in International shares.

The good thing about superfunds in Aust is that you can choose and pick which superfund suits you. Earnings is totally tax free once you retire (after 55) which is very generous in Aust. My wife has her own self-managed superfund (you basically manage your own superfund sand it acts like a company and you use that company to buy what you like - properties, shares (incl reits), currencies). You can even borrow with a self-managed superfund! I find that with her self-managed superfund returns, we cannot beat the professionals superfunds(in terms of returns) because they also use hedging strategies like call/put options and warrants. The fees of professional superfunds are very competitive too! I have learnt a lot from our experience of managing my wife's self-managed superfund and i have decided that i will leave mine in the hands of the professionals - also you don't need to worry about all the red tape of a selfmanaged fund and just draw on the returns for your retirement expenses which i calculated should provide me with quite a comfortable retirement. Superfund is becoming the big thing in Aust as govt here is encouraging citizens to save instead of relying on welfare (welfare is killing this country and this is the main reason why the Aussie dollar is not strong!).
Garysydney
post Nov 6 2017, 08:15 AM

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QUOTE(Showtime747 @ Nov 6 2017, 07:00 AM)
Whaooo..that's great man  thumbup.gif  Another good reason why people choose to migrate to down under.

A$ is not that bad compared to RM  sweat.gif

If you want more stable currency (against RM), look into SGD. Maybe put some into SGD investment as diversification. But you already have international funds so you are already very well positioned
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In Aust, local shares are not going anywhere. I have only started taking a keen interest in my superfund returns after my wife started her self-managed superfund. We have done quite well recently with international shares (mainly invested in US shares unhedged) and with Aussie dollar going south, it actually pushes up out super balance. If you look at the Unisuper international shares performance over the last 2 months, it has gone up more than 8%!! This is due to 2 factors - world stock markets esp Dow Jones and Aussie dollar dropping against US dollar. State Super (SASS) which holds the bulk of my super balance is quite conservative in their investment approach and i have always been invested in the high risk category (Growth strategy) (http://www.statesuper.nsw.gov.au/investments/performance/declared-rates-over-the-last-10-financial-years-ending-30-june-2016) and they have been returning 5-6% in the last 10 years.

In Aust, superfunds have matured very significantly over the last 10 years (with govt giving a lot of tax concessions in this area) and this will be the talk of future generations in years to come. You can even put in your own money (max 100k/yr which is called non-concessional contributions) and earnings (incl capital gains) are taxed at 15% which is very good considering the high personal tax rates in Aust. Earnings (incl capital gains) are tax free once you retire. This is a godsend for many retirees here!! Never heard about 0% tax in Australia until now!! People who are about to retire (like me) pump all their money into super whcih becomes tax free once you retire. Best thing that ever happened in Aust!!

This post has been edited by Garysydney: Nov 7 2017, 07:46 AM
Garysydney
post Nov 7 2017, 04:02 AM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Nov 6 2017, 11:53 AM)
The problem with choosing a high equity option in your super, is that you are exposed to fluctuations of the stock markets. You are seeing a very short term appreciation, and with the mild softening of the AUD, see good paper returns in AUD. You will only realise the paper gains if you swap out from the high equity option. If the market crashes, you may see all your gains and significant part of savings wiped out.

Normally, for near retirees, an asset protection approach to investment is advisable.

The tax free status of super returns is great for near retirees, but for the young, it's very far away, and that concession may no longer be there in 30 years time, just as defined benefits disappeared. Most young people don't even have savings for a first property down payment, let alone top up supers.

The babyboomers are the lucky generation. The gen X and y are not so optimistic about their future.
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All financial planners recommend a very conservative approach towards retirement as retirees cannot stomach the pain when they see their retirement funds shrinking. In the last 20 years, I have always nominated a high-risk (equities) strategy in super and it seems like it has done very well (except for the 2 years GFC 2008-2009). I find that markets usually rebound after it has dropped signfiicantly (may need to wait a longer period of time for it to recover) so if you have the time to wait for its recovery, it doesn't matter. When i retire at 57 (another 18 months), i probably have a life expectancy of at least another 20 years so i plan to leave most (around 80%) of my funds in International equities in my super and the rest in less risk assets. As years go by, i will cut back on my exposure to International shares as i may not have the time to wait for a recovery. I have seen some of my colleagues who retired a few years ago (around 60) and went into extremely conservative investments and was yielding 3% p.a. but they were very happy - i suggested to them to have 10-20% in international shares and they told me they will not be able to sleep at nite. I dare not tell them i have all mine in international shares (i know they will try and talk me out of it). Do you think i am too much of a risk-taker?
Garysydney
post Nov 7 2017, 09:40 AM

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Thanks for your reply.

I think even if i put my entire retirement fund into a conservative portfolio, my wife and i should be able to retire quite comfortably in 18 months from now. This is the reason why i have decided to go at 57 (my preservation age) which means we can start accessing our super. We lead quite simple lives and don't indulge in too much luxury. I estimate i can increase my nest egg by about A$60-70k/yr if i continue to work. A lot of my friends here are asking me to continue working (i have a very cushy job because i know all the policies and systems here like the back of my hands). One of the forummers even PMed me and told me i have enough funds to retire(at that time i was so new, i didn't even know what PM is for!).
Humans are normally a little greedy - we always want to have more than we need. I guess you are right in suggesting a more conservative approach upon retirement. Over the last 5-6 years, my International share returns (Unisuper) have averaged around 20%p.a. That is the best thing ever i have done by switching to International shares about 8 years back. I have become very greedy now with such fantastic returns (one of the reasons why my super balance has gone up so much) and this has convinced me that equities (preferably international) is the way to invest.
Garysydney
post Nov 7 2017, 01:43 PM

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QUOTE(limeuu @ Nov 7 2017, 12:13 PM)
Once you have migrated away from Msia permanently, you can apply to withdraw all your EPF...
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I think PR can no longer withdraw their epf if i am not mistaken. I think they changed the law quite a few years ago. I might be mistaken but i think you must take up Aust citizenship before you can get the epf out.

This post has been edited by Garysydney: Nov 8 2017, 01:29 AM

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