Outline ·
[ Standard ] ·
Linear+
Discussion who's dive the most?, EPL players who dive the most in game
|
Duke Red
|
 Dec 7 2006, 10:43 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
The article I posted is in today's NST if anyone thinks I fabricated it.
Rivaldo's act was disgraceful especially for a player of his quality but I can't remember him diving on any other occasion. Doesn't one have to be a repeat offender to be a diver? Maradona himself dived because he claimed that referees did not give him enough protection. There is a difference between him and players who dive to deceive referees to their advantage. If you are constantly hacked and chopped down, I suppose it's difficult to blame a player from going down too easily. If you do it out of desperation, then it's despicable. Win fair or don't win at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Dec 8 2006, 10:31 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(he-sham @ Dec 8 2006, 02:43 AM) i wonder why ref must give a penalty if he not totally sure there's contact or not between the players...
if it's critical decision such as penalty, first ref must 100% sure there's contact, & from that he must decide whether that incident merit a penalty or not...
in ronaldo case, middlesboro keeper didnt touch him at all & i cant understand from where the ref got 100% sure there's contact.....if not sure, just dont give it.... it shows, ref always bias to big team...unlucky boro... You are right, the ref should not award pens based on guess work. However, we have to consider that the ref may have been certain it was a pen from his angle so to him, there was no doubt. |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Dec 8 2006, 11:04 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(refnulf @ Dec 8 2006, 10:34 AM) Ronaldo did dive when he first came here but I believe that he's managed to cut that out of his game already. Even if he does go down easily, he's quick back on his feet and he's never asking for penalties unless he really thinks he was fouled. He does get kicked around alot though, hence me highlighting the fact that he needs more protection from the referees.
Rooney is known to dive once in a while, not habitual but still known to do so from time to time. The Arsenal game comes to mind, not one of his proudest moments, but that was definitely a dive. The team did play well enough there, but a dive is a dive. Well I don't watch as many of your games as you do obviously but Rooney never struck me as a diver. Must have been a couple of incidents I missed. If you read the article I posted, the author agreed that Ronaldo was beginning to clean up his act and has been playing quality football. This is why the incident against Middlesborough is being highlighted. No one wants to see him revert to diving again. Then again, it's just one incident, give it a few more games before anyone can judge him. |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Dec 8 2006, 03:03 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
Andy Gray and his views on the issue of diving. QUOTE Untwist Your Knickers Over Diving...[SIZE=7]
Posted 07/12/06 14:28
I'm no Manchester United fan but I am a fan of football and I absolutely love the Premiership. And we're going to lose magnificent players like Cristiano Ronaldo from this league if we persist in McCarthy-style witch trials of footballers who dive.
There is so much to celebrate and glorify about football, and yet we spend hour upon hour, week upon week, talking about simulation and diving. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill...
Last week's furore was no surprise to me, and it certainly was no surprise that Ronaldo was the player at the centre - not because he dives any more than anyone else, but because he has become an easy target, especially after the World Cup.
Yes, he might exaggerate sometimes. But does he do it more than anyone else? Was his 'dive' any worse than Tomas Rosicky's against Tottenham? Personally I think Rosicky's was worse, and there was vfery little said about that.
And it looked exactly the same as Stevie Gerrard's against Sheffield United to me. He was running at pace, moved to avoid a tackle, lost his balance and with it the scoring opportunity. Nowhere in the rule books does it say that there has to be contact - only intent.
Ronaldo is probably one of the most fouled players in the Premiership - he keeps the ball close to his feet, twists and turns and stays on his toes. It doesn't take a lot to lose your balance when you play like that.
Yes, he embellishes it at times. But which player doesn't? Watch defenders when they're shepherding out the ball - the slightest contact in the back from the striker, and they're down. It's part of the game and it always has been.
I played against the likes of Franny Lee and Trevor Francis, who were masters of the art. If ever there was a brush, they would be down. We accepted it, and that's what people need to do now - condemning players will only see them lose their confidence and eventually even go elsewhere.
You couldn't really blame Ronaldo - at the age of 21 - if he decided he'd had enough and went to Italy or Spain, where his talents would be appreciated. That would be a massive loss to the Premiership - we need to encourage skill players, not drive them out of the country.
This game is not perfect and it never will be - people need to stop trying to make it so. People will make mistakes, as we all do in everyday life, and we have to accept those mistakes. Sometimes players will get it wrong, sometimes referees will get it wrong - launching a witch-hunt helps nobody.
A totally sanitised game - which some people seem to be striving for - will never happen, and thank God for that. Wouldn't it be dull if we didn't have controversy and argument? What on earth would I talk about for hours every Sunday? |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Dec 8 2006, 06:19 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
Nolah I think he's a fan because Andy Gray defended Ronaldo, correct or not?  |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 9 2007, 02:16 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
If you play in the big four, you get into the press more often so it makes sense. I'm tired of hearing fans, player and managers moan about how they are victimised because they are part of a big team. Being a big and well supported team, you get more press coverage, your games get aired live more often and people notice you more. It's part of the game, deal with it. If they can't live with it, drop out of the top four and glide under the radar.
Having said all that, Diouf isn't exactly in a small team. Neither was "fox-in-the-box" Francis Jeffers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 9 2007, 03:45 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
No one is doubting CR's ability. They are just responding to the topic. Just because they think he goes down easy, it doesn't mean they think he's crap.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 9 2007, 04:00 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
Well players in general tend to go down easier nowadays as the stakes are much higher. I don't necessarily believe everything the press tells me but I do believe that there often isn't smoke without fire. I personally have not seen Henry dive often enough to call him a diver.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 10 2007, 12:20 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
Which do you boys reckon is worse? A player who dives and admits to being a diver, OR a player who dives and doesn't admit to being one?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 10 2007, 02:18 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
Good answer  |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 10 2007, 02:44 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(befitozi @ Apr 10 2007, 02:43 PM) wat about a player that doesnt dives but is victimized by the media I've said before that there often isn't any smoke with no fire. If the media do go on about it, there has to be a certain degree of truth behind it. Then it's up to the media how much they want to sensationalise it. |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
Apr 10 2007, 03:07 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
That's feigning injury which is another despicable habit!  |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 15 2007, 11:52 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
The truth about this thread is most fans would not be able to take criticism aimed at their players, whether or not it is justified. They will start trying to deflect the attention to another player who seemingly dives more rather than defend their player, because in reality, most players dive, only to what degree.
I can accept the fact that most players go down easily there days when there's contact. In accordance with the letter of the law, that warrants a foul. What I despise is players going down anticipating contact, even when there clearly isn't any. They then try to justify their innocence by trying to convince the opposing defender that there was indeed contact. That to me shows poor sportsmanship. If you anticipate contact and go down even when there isn't any, you should get right up again and play on. If you know you dived, don't try to justify your actions because the cameras will tell us the truth, and then you will get labeled as a diver, and rightly so.
It's understandable that players who are especially quick will go down easier. Their momentum is taking them forward and the slightest bit of contact can throw them off. Has Ronaldo dived? Of course but so has other players. Does he go down easily? Yes but that could be because of the reason I gave, similar to how Gerrard went down under Gattuso's challenge in 2005.
I like the thread topic though because it states "who dives the most?" and not "who dives?" It has already been established that almost all players dive every now and then. Out of the names given, I'll have to go with Ronaldo though Drogba comes in a close second. A player of his size should not go down so easily. It defies the laws of physics when you see defenders half his size put him to ground with minimal effort. I have to give credit where it's due though, and Drogba has since been working on cleaning up his act. I remember when he was getting booed by the Stamford Bridge faithful for diving too often. It says something when your own fans give you stick for it.
This applies across the board.
This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 15 2007, 11:56 AM
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 08:38 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
I'm not going to start on any one player but those that feign injury to get others booked are a disgrace. I don't care which club you play for, there's no place for this in football.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 09:18 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(chtanray @ May 16 2007, 09:12 AM) dive is oledi one part of the competition nowsadays.....we have admit this even this is not a good sign....i do not know who dive the most, may be we can said is ronaldo......coz we depends on Astro for EPL matches.....Astro always show the big teams games.......so we will see a lot of divers come from the big teams......i think how smart a player dive will get my attention.....how smart the player can dive and cheat the referee.........if got a pool to choose who is the smartest player in diving......then my vote will go to Ronaldo...... It works both ways. When your team is shown on TV more, they win more fans, and their players get more recognition. It's a double edged sword, the price of fame is you will. I can't see how people can complain though, they know it's coming. |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 11:29 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(chtanray @ May 16 2007, 10:38 AM) Cristiano Ronaldo is smartest in diving but not dive the most......dun get wrong my meaning.... Sorry mate, what do you mean by smartest in diving again? Does that mean he dives or he doesn't? |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 11:38 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(chtanray @ May 16 2007, 11:33 AM) he dived and can win the believe from the referee......or can say that he seldom get yellow card on diving even the whole England labeled him as NO 1 Diver in the country......with this label, referee still seldom give yellow card....this is wat i mean by smart......correct me if i am wrong.... Personally I don't care if a person is a 'smart diver' or a 'dumb diver'. To me, diving is still diving and though it may be accepted in certain parts of the world, I can't tolerate it. As I've said, all players have probably dived at some point or other and I find it despicable. It's one of the reason Liverpool fans didn't warm to Diouf who was a diver and worse, he admitted it. In short, he admitted he cheats. |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 11:42 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(vNistelrooy @ May 16 2007, 11:34 AM) man utd fan will defend ronaldo while chelsea fan will defend drogba..this is going nowhere..just vote and dont leave comments, if not will go on forever I see your point but the purpose of a forum is to discuss issues. What would be the point of just leaving a vote with no input? I don't see a problem as long as some posters exercise some common sense and use logic in their arguments. Also, some posters have to learn to take in constructive criticism and form an opinion of their own, backed by fact of course. It's just that most Malaysians post nonsense and when someone says something about their club or it's players (even though it's backed with fact and logic), they react as though someone had just insulted their mother. A little common sense will go a long way. You see me arguing with Renulf and though it may seem to get really heated, I appreciate that fact that we both have our points. At least it shows we gave some though into what each other said and tried to form our own arguments. This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 16 2007, 11:48 AM |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 11:45 AM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
QUOTE(sickboy @ May 16 2007, 11:39 AM) It feels so good to see EPL Best Player of the Season gets the highest vote so far *Spit* at CR , Kaka is the One & Only Golden Boy!!! Dun believe? go download MU vs AC Milan both 1st and 2nd leg  Now gentlemen, let's take this post as an example of someone baiting violent responses. If you ask me, this accusation (true or not) is not backed by enough reasoning and fact. By reacting in a similar fashion (e.g. balls! CR is the best!), you stoop to that level. If it were me, I'd go, "yeah yeah, Kaka is the greatest player that ever lived, and Ronald is the crappiest". Why? Because I see no point in arguing when I know the other party cannot justify his claim with reasoning and logic. How would you react to this then? This post has been edited by Duke Red: May 16 2007, 11:48 AM |
|
|
|
|
|
Duke Red
|
May 16 2007, 01:56 PM
|
Look at all my stars!!
|
I think he's referring to players that lose their own balance.
|
|
|
|
|
Quote
0.0595sec
0.82
7 queries
GZIP Disabled