Pennywise,

<<Well, I would love to because I know for a fact that, for insurance, the earlier you buy, the better. >>

Wrong!! If you have NO NEED for protection, why do you throw money away on Insurance. And, dependent on what kind of NEED that you have, you buy certain kind of insurance. Each insurance ONLY protect against certain thing and event.

<<I've known her for a decade, and I trust her but this isnt supposed to be the way it works, is it? I mean, how could you ask someone to sign up for something for 30 years, paying something like RM150 - RM300 per month for 30 years and not given a proposal? Would that have worked if the customer she approached is not me but a professional business man?>>

Bingo. This is A LOT of money. Do not buy until you KNOW exactly what you are buying. There is NO NEED to rush. A WRONG decision is a VERY EXPENSIVE mistake.

Will you rush out and buy a 200K car?? Ditto on this. You NEED to do some shopping.

Dreamer

Pennywise,

1) Insurance do not protect you if you lose your job and has NO INCOME. So, you NEED 3 to 6 months worth of emergency fund / savings first before you even talk about buying insurance.

2) If you have NO DEPENDENT aka nobody depend on you for support, why do you need life insurance?? Your DEATH represent no economic loss to ANYONE.

3) You MAY need some medical, PA, and disability protection when you are young But, before you buy, do you have any of those coverage from you job??

4) Can you afford to buy insurance?? If you cannot save 10% to 15% of your gross income after buying insurance, you cannot afford insurance.

Search on my posts.

I am NOT insurance agent. I am NOT interested in selling to YOU. Others are insurance agents. They ONLY make money when they sell insurance to you. So, how many of them will advice you not to buy insurance and break their own rice bowl??

Buyer beware!! Shop around.

Most young Malaysians overspend on insurance and ended with NO SAVINGS. So, when they lose their job, they can no longer pay insurance and they have NO COVERAGE. And, they are MORE LIKELY to lose their job than anything else. But, they are NOT protected.

Dreamer

---

Added on April 27, 2009, 2:21 amlcl832002,

<<To me, only the person who has the ability to predict his own future doesn't need any insurance plan.?<<

Stop doing "bait and switch" sell tactic.

A) A baby does not know the future. But, does a baby need life insurance??

B) Ditto, if a person has MILLIONS worth of savings, why do a person need to buy 100K worth of insurance??

C) If you are a beggar and you are staving now, you buy food first before talking about insurance.

There is NOTHING magical about insurance. You ONLY buy it when insurance costs is low enough that the PROTECTION is worthwhile for the RISK that you want to cover.

Buyer beware..

Dreamer


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Apr 27 2009, 02:21 AM

lcl832002,

If you as an insurance agent and you are TOO LAZY to come up a good plan that WORKS for your customer, why should ANYONE buy from YOU?? This is what we call customer service.

<<Every product in the market has its own strengths and weaknesses. We can never find a perfect product that suits all our insurance needs. >>

If you BELIEVE that you SHOULD NOT be an insurance agent. In fact, you are in NO BUSINESS selling ANYTHING. A good sales person SOLVE PROBLEM for their customer. They find out what the customer NEEDS and what they are WILLING to pay. Then, they PACKAGES the BEST combination that WORKS for the customer.

<<How are we going to compare all the plans?>>

It is YOUR JOB as a sales person to compare ALL PLANS. Then, come up a combination of YOUR PRODUCTS compete well against OTHERS and offer the BEST VALUE for a particular customer.

This is WHY some people are VERY SUCCESSFUL sales person while OTHERS are not.

A good sales person DO NOT SELL. They SOLVE customer problem.

Customer do not want to BUY. They want their problem SOLVED. They BUY from ANYONE that solve their problem.

Dreamer

P.S.: I used to be a sales manager. We cornered 50+% of our market. So, you could either learn or choose to ignore this advice from a sales veteran. No, I do not sale insurance. So, you can choose to believe what I posted is IRRELEVANT to selling insurance.


This post has been edited by dreamer101: Apr 27 2009, 05:23 AM

Pennywise,

When you ask the WRONG question, you will NEVER get the RIGHT answer.

A) If you have NO DEPENDENT, you DO NOT need life insurance

If you want to give money to your sister and parent, why not give them NOW?? Why do you need to buy life insurance and hope that you die EARLIER?? How does this make any sense?

B) if you buy later, it costs more??

So what?? Buying life insurance when you do not need it is like throwing money into a river. It is CHEAP to buy life insurance for baby but you will be wasting money.

The KEY question that you should ask is what are you trying to protect against?? What are your NEEDS?/

A) Death -> Life insurance

Does not matter if you have NO DEPENDENT

B) Disability -> Something happen and you can no longer work.

This may make sense at the right price. But, if you work in MNC, you might be covered too.

C) Personal Accident -> PA insurance
This is cheap and high risk for young people. It might be worthwhile but your job may cover this too.

I had written extensively on this subject. Search on my handle and you will find it.

Dreamer

lcl832002,

Stop using FUD tactic.

<< Her son became diasbled due to an accident. Because he had never bought any insurance plans for his entire life, he lost his income permanently. If I am not mistaken, he was single.>>

So, what if he has INSURANCE??? The REALITY is even if he has insurance, it will NOT pay enough to cover his whole life. At least, not the kind that you can get in Malaysia. In USA, you can get permanent disability insurance that pay you certain amount every month until you die aka no limit. In Malaysia, there is a LIMIT how much insurance. And, for normal people, the payout is NOT enough to cover this kind of situation. So, even if he has INSURANCE, after a few years, he still needs to be supported by his mother.

lcl832002,

Which is another COMMON BS that insurance agent used in Malaysia. We have single person that live with parents and pay NO RENT. But, they buy life insurance even though they do not support their parent. If you REALLY CARE about your parent, why not pay them NOW?? Why buy life insurance and hope that you DIE and they get PAID?? This is VERY COMMON in Malaysia.

Good for insurance agent. Bad for consumer.

You DO NOT NEED lifer insurance if you do not support ANYONE. Aka, no dependent.

Dreamer

Tatsumaki,

Another insurance agent again... Now, if you are a GOOD insurance agent, you will tell your YOUNG customer

A) You do not NEED life insurance if you have NO DEPENDENT

B) For young person, DISABILITY is a LARGER financial RISK than death. Disability costs more than death

<< Are you aware that upon a person's demise, that person still needs to settle his or her loans? Are the parents going to fork out their money again to finish paying their daughter/son's properties? cars? other bills like credit card on top of funeral expenses?>>

C) B.S. Unless the parents are STUPID enough to be the guarantor, who say so??

<<remature death aside, what about critical illness?>>

D) Which is covered by Critical Illness insurance. Not life insurance. Do you KNOW the difference between LIFE INSURANCE and Critical Illness insurance??

E) And, young people tend to have LOWER RISK on Critical Illness as compare to Medical. So, buy Medical Insurance instead Critical Illness insurance when you are young.

Know the PRODUCTS that you are selling. Stop spilling BS. Know what works for each customer.

Dreamer

constant,

It is a BAD idea to buy MRTA as opposed to life insurance. Even if you buy MRTA, you still need to buy life insurance. Think about this way, if something happen to you,

A) Life insurance pay CASH to your wife and she can choose to keep the house fro a while until she decide what to do next. Or, do something else.

B) MRTA only pays the house loan. Now, she has to force to sell the house to get money in a very stressful time. This is what we call "motivated seller". She will not get a good price.

In general, unless you pay a low down payment, you are forced by the bank to buy MRTA/MLTA, do not buy it. Buy life insurance instead.

Remember, maximum = 10 years.. You DO NOT NEED to cover the WHOLE HOUSE LOAN. All you need is to cover the maximum of 10 years worth of expenses. That is the reasonable limit for life insurance. That is ENOUGH for people to get on their feet. If you have multiple houses, it looks like you may have TOO MUCH COVERAGE. With 10 years, there are enough time to sell those houses in right time.

Come on. Why insurance agents on this thread do not know this??

Dreamer

---

Added on May 3, 2009, 7:11 pmbbjslee,

WRONG!!! You do not buy life insurance on how much you WORTH. If I am worth 10 millions and I have enough savings, I should not be buying life insurance to begin with. It is BASED on NEED.

The NEED is to have some money to let people get on their feet. The standard rule is 10 years worth of expenses. Now, if a person has savings and investment, the NEED decreases.

Insurance is LOUSY way to save money. So, do not let me get started on Insurance for education saving.

Life insurance is based in NEED. The NEED to cover between what you HAVE versus what you MAY NEED in the event of your death.

And, up to a point, the PREMIUM could be so high that it is NOT WORTH to cover. Typically, the number is around 200K.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 3 2009, 07:18 PM

bbjslee,

<<How to calculate how much you worth is very subjective.>>

I do not use subjective mean to calculate net worth. If my asset minus liability = 10 millions, I am worth 10 millions. I do not use BS such as FUTURE INCOME.

Come on, are you telling me that you DO NOT KNOW how to calculate net worth?? What is so subjective about asset minus liability??

<<And secondly, is a premium high or not depend on many situations and it is up to the policy owner to decide.>>

This is another BS. You and I know perfectly well that life insurance premium do not increase linearly on ALL coverage amount. After certain coverage amount, the life insurance premium grow exponentially. So, it is INCREASING very expensive to increase the coverage amount. Now, of course, insurance agents do not really want to tell customer that. Or, they will know how to bargain better.

This the same as shopping for anything. If you are approaching the high end of any product, the price increase exponentially.

<<And on your case, 200k the premium is too high, >>

At my circumstances, the number is around 200K. After 200K, the life insurance premium increase exponentially. It may no longer worthwhile to increase the coverage. For example, for coverage of 400K, the life insurance premium is NOT 2 times of the 200K. It is more than that.

A person MAY still buy the higher coverage. But, they should know that they are PAYING A LOT more for greater than normal coverage. They better be sure that they NEED it. Or, they can do something else.

Get a quote with multiple coverage amounts, then, a customer can figure this out.

Dreamer

P.S.: Why am I teaching Insurance Agent about their own products?? They should know this.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 3 2009, 10:22 PM

bbjslee,

1) I am talking about NET WORTH. And, what has a person's life worth got to do with LIFE INSURANCE?? It is IRRELEVANT. It is ONLY relevant to INSURANCE AGENT so that they can over-sell the customer. So that, a customer will buy TOO MUCH life insurance.

The MOST that a person should buy is 10 years worth of income. 10 years worth of expense may make sense. If YOU buy too much life insurance, you expense level went up, you need MORE LIFE INSURANCE. This makes INSURANCE AGENT even happier. More to sell.

<< A bread winner maybe has a networth of 50k, after minus his various loans, but he has a wife who have no financial income, and 3 young children. So his life only worth 50k?>>

WRONG QUESTIONS!!

2) Who care what his life worth?? The CORRECT question is what is his income?? If he is NOT surviving on current income to begin with, buying life insurance is not what he should be doing to begin with.

3) If his 50K does not cover 6 months of expenses, he should not be buying lfe insurance.

<<- Who taught you your life worth = your networth? I would really like to know.>>

4) I do not use BS like life worth. I use REAL NET WORTH. You choose not to listen.


<< GE, Supreme Livin' Care Plus. Traditional 3D Participating Policy.
Age 30, Male, Non smoking. Class 1 occupation.
Basic sum assured: 100,000. 3430 p.a.
BSA: 200,000. 6860 p.a.
BSA: 300,000. 10,140 p.a.
BSA: 400,000. 13,520 p.a.
BSA: 500,000. 16,900 p.a.
In your example, 13520/6860 = 1.97!! It is even less than 2!!!
Tell me does it increases exponentially?
>>

5) I told you that my CIRCUMSTANCES and my QUOTATIONS which has NOTHING to do with your 3D BS.

6) Now, isn't it better for a CUSTOMER to see a table like this and let them decides?? So, they can shop and budget for the RIGHT coverage??


The COVERAGE should be based on NEED. And, a person SHOULD KNOW what each coverage cost and trade off. 10 years is the maximum amount. Life worth is IRRELEVANT. If you use life worth, you will be BUYING TOO MUCH coverage.

<<BSA: 500,000. 16,900 p.a.>>

Let's take this as an example, to buy 500K coverage, a person should have at least 50K worth of gross annual income based on 10 years rule. Now, if you are making 50K per year, does it makes sense to pay $17K per year on insurance?? Aka 34% of your income?? No.

It does not make sense. We do not even have to talk about BS such as life worth.

Stop doing "Bait and Switch".

It is WORTHWHILE for a person to buy certain amount of insurance. A good insurance agent work with customer to find out the RIGHT and REASONABLE amount instead of BS like life worth.

What I am AGAINST is people doing "Bait and Switch" and FUD. I welcome people to EDUCATE and come up reasonable number and calculation.

Dreamer

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Added on May 4, 2009, 7:44 amTo ALL Insurance Agents in This Thread,

I do not slam you indiscriminately. For example, the above posts are the kind that educate consumer and make us a BETTER Insurance customer. Keep those coming. That is what we needed. I am trying elevate everyone's knowledge on insurance.

Now, however, if you do some "bait and switch" or FUD without doing your proper homework, you are FAIR GAME to me.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 4 2009, 07:44 AM

bbjslee,

So what?? My goal is to EDUCATE. Get people to think about the coverage amount and what make sense for them. See the numbers and get multiple quotation over multiple coverage amounts. This is MUCH MUCH BETTER than LIFE WORTH concept which essentially say that you cannot buy TOO MUCH life insurance for most people.

EDUCATE. Teach people to think for themselves. There is NO single right answer for EVERYONE. But, we could teach people on what they need to think about.

I succeeded in doing that.

Dreamer

Tatsumaki,

<< If John Doe rakes in 50k per annum, it is absurd to set aside 17k for insurance. This is an unrealistic figure. The amount set aside is based on the customer by asking, "Mr John Doe, in the event you aren't around, how many year's salary would you like your family to have to assist them in moving on?">>

So, that means you AGREE with me that life worth is MEANINGLESS to determine how much coverage that a person should have. Why are you keeping quiet while somebody is spilling useless stuff on life worth??

<<Moving on, if a tycoon has 10 million in assets, paying 200k premium per year is peanuts to him. Why so I say that?>>

Now, if a person has 10 millions in assets, why would a person buy LIFE INSURANCE to begin with??

Do I need to remind you the BASIC about LIFE INSURANCE?? LIFE INSURANCE is used to protect LOSS of INCOME. In many cases, with 10 millions of asset, most of the income could be PASSIVE. Aka, the person could die and the level of income does not change much. Hence, NO RISK of loss of income due to death. NO RISK = NO NEED for LIFE INSURANCE.

<< You're free to educate - but telling them "Noooo, don't need. Wasting money. Don't, it's lousy" - these are black seeding. You can tell them opinions backed up with logical and sound reasoning, but leave the deciding factor to themselves.>>

So what?? With SO MANY insurance agents out there OVER-SELLING insurance, my point of view is NEEDED to balance out those biases. YOU are not going to tell them when they do not need insurance. I have to do this to balance out your biases.

<< Did you realize what damage you could have done if someone actually believe those words? How some poor parents would have their child's assets all frozen unable to use? >>

In YOUR EXAMPLE, there is NO ASSET. There are LIABILITIES. So, why should PARENTS pay for the liability??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 5 2009, 06:32 PM

Tatsumaki,

If the rule of thumb is ONLY 3 to 4 years of gross salary, why do we care how much a person's life worth?? That is what bbjslee claim coverage amount should be based on.

Dreamer

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Added on May 5, 2009, 6:43 pmTatsumaki,

You are INSURANCE AGENT. Your GENERALIZATION always BIAS towards buying insurance. So, i have to point out situation that it does not make sense.

Dreamer

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Added on May 5, 2009, 6:51 pmlin00b,

<<as a single person without dependent, i only need enough life insurance to payoff debts that can get transferred to next-of-kin and NOT the 3-4 year gross salary.>>

The GREATEST FINANCIAL RISK at this stage is NOT death. It is DISABILITY. Being YOUNG, if you disable, you have LONGER TIME to live and that costs a lot more money than dying. Now, the chances of getting sick and CI is lower for YOUNG people.

So, if you want to buy insurance, adjust coverage based on this priority, form high to low

A) PA -> This is cheap and high risk in Malaysia

B) TPD

C) Life

D) Medical

E) CI

How much coverage do you get from your job?? That might lower some of the coverage.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 5 2009, 06:51 PM

lin00b,

From FINANCIAL standpoint, both TPD and CI are equally devastating. But, YOUNG people has higher likelihood to get TPD than CI.

Remember, insurance can only solve your financial burden and nothing else.

Eventually, you have to make your own decision. I am just giving you ideas on what to think about.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: May 6 2009, 01:12 AM

chew_ronnie,

So, if we have bear market for a few more years, a person has to pay more in premium to ILP than what you are quoted. Am I correct??

Dreamer