So what is your main concern when purchasing Insurance. The return or the benefits? Do you set any target to enjoy those extras when you are in your 80's?

Honesty is the key in selling and I do agree that some agent do chase the commission rather than the telling customer the whole idea about coverage. But your bad experience with some insurance agent shouldn't reflect other agents. THERE ARE HONEST AGENT OUT THERE.


This is about ethics in selling insurance and it's up to individuals either to practice it or not. You have to admit even some sales personnel in your previous sales industry fails to obey the code of ethics. And one more thing! The commission that they earn is not easy as you think and it won't last forever.

Edit:
Dreamer 101, you mention that there is no Total and Permanent Disability Benefits where it pays only on certain condition. Mind to elaborate?

This post has been edited by Eunose Roadster: Dec 8 2006, 07:31 PM

You can choose to earn an honest living and actually provide a service to your customer or just sell to your customer. The key word here is "service". And, to service your customer, you need to know your product aka insurance. You need to know when someone need to buy which kind of products.

1) Tax rate in Malaysia is so low that unless you earn very high salary, it is NOT a factor.

2) Rich business person has very good accountant and they hardly pay any tax.



<< So what is your main concern when purchasing Insurance. The return or the benefits? Do you set any target to enjoy those extras when you are in your 80's?>>

1) You buy insurance ONLY for protection and nothing else. You aim to buy insurance with ZERO return.

2) Let's me explain to you in very simple term. If I come to you and say give me $1,000 and I will keep the $500 and put the $500 into FD or Unit Trust, I will return the earning from the $500 after 20 years to you. And, we will do this every month or every year.

If you have any kind of common sense, you will cal me crazy and ask why the hell do I want to do that?? Why don't I invest/save the $1000 myself??

This is what essentially you are doing for whole life insurance or any insurance with return.

3) The problem in Malaysia is that due to lack of competition in Malaysia, you CANNOT buy term life insurance: life insurance with ZERO return. The only thing you can do is buy life insurance with as little return/surrender value as possible.

<< THERE ARE HONEST AGENT OUT THERE.>>

4) There are a lot of insurance agents that do not know insurance. They may be honest but they still could not help you.

<< And one more thing! The commission that they earn is not easy as you think and it won't last forever.>>

5) When you can sell something and collect 100+% commission without knowing what the hell you are selling and people willing to buy it without knowing what they are buying, how hard it is?? Tell me what other kind of sell job has higher earning/commission and least amount of work? This is much much better than MLM. You sell the insurance once and you collect commission every year.

<< This is about ethics in selling insurance and it's up to individuals either to practice it or not. You have to admit even some sales personnel in your previous sales industry fails to obey the code of ethics. >>

6) The bottom line is very simple. If you are NOT smart customer, you can be conned. So, either learn how to shop for insurance or be prepare to lose a lot of money in unnecessary insurance or too little protection.

7) This is the same as everything else. You spend a lot of time shopping for car and house because it is a a large purchase and it is a lot of money. To a lot of Malaysians, insurance is a very large purchase but they do it carelessly and they deserve to lose a lot of money.

<< Total and Permanent Disability Benefits where it pays only on certain condition. >>

A REAL and COMPLETE disability insurance have two conditions:

1) It pays you a monthly income FOREVER as long as you are disabled.

2) It pays as long as you CANNOT work for whatever reason.

Malaysia DO NOT have insurance that satisfy BOTH conditions.

Dreamer

Howcome my company got sell TERM life insurance and also REAL and COMPLETE disability insurance as u have mentioned not available in Malaysia?

Hmm.. i'm in Malaysia. Is there another Malaysia?

Show me the company web site and the detail of the insurance. And, I will show you why you are WRONG. Or, you would have proven that I am WRONG. Let's do it in the open.

I want to be wrong. If low cost TERM life insurance exist in Malaysia, it would be a good deal for many people in Malaysia.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 8 2006, 11:55 PM

U r saying tax rate on msia is low n vy few rich ppl? u r not.. go out n check out how many bmw n mercs on the road. U say they got good accountant? yea to make sure they pay their taxes well. I know of a high ranking tax-collector. He'll make the big fish beg on their knees to offer them a reasonable solution if these fishy didn't pay tax.

And hell yeah there are Term Insurance in Msia. I would have post it here and the website too... but i'll be advertising or promoting my Company aren't I?

Unless the moderator agreed to let me post it. Go go go!

Or if you are really keen to know, then PM me. I'll reply when I'm free.

Actually yeah, Malaysian tax rates r damn low compared to places like Australia. Very few rich ppl? I don't see that mentioned anywhere. Where did u see that statement?

There's a difference between tax deduction methods and tax evasion. If its done legally, there's not a single thing that your high ranking tax collector can do either.

Yup, there are Term Insurance as well as Total and Permanent Disability Income Benefits in Malaysia for quite some time now.

I'm not promoting anything here either, but yea, the company I represent has the widest range of insurance products in the malaysian market as well as being the largest insurer in the world.

However it is not really heavily promoted as most malaysians tend to dislike products with no returns.

PMed me your company name and insurance detail. I promise you a fair study/research.

That is why I say GOOD accountant. With GOOD accountant, you can deduct your tax legally if you are running a business. There is NOTHING that a tax collector can do to you if it is done LEGALLY.

Dreamer

Hah sorry ha there's no mentioned vy few rich ppl.. wat to do 3am not yet sleep blur blur liao...
Well in Msia for a person earning RM100k annually, he/she will be taxed 27% of income. Source http://www.hasilnet.org.my/english/eng_NO2_1_1K.asp

Having to pay rm20k plus annually.. thats kind of high! A fresh graduate only earn that in a year! Stop comparing Msia to other country lah since we are living in bolehland. Otherwise just imigrate imediately!

Oh insurance is also tax deductable, and the receiving is also tax-free.

Woohoo buying insurance is tax deductable including for your children

Zarth i know what company u r from! hehe... I'm ur competitor.. I don't represent largest in the world, but largest in Msia.

Malaysia Boleh!

[Geminist: Double posts merged]

Hi,

1) Tax rate in Malaysia is so low that unless you earn very high SALARY, it is NOT a factor.

2) Rich BUSINESS person has very good accountant and they hardly pay any tax. Their earning ARE NOT converted into taxable income.

I do agree with you that some people with high SALARY may pay a lot of tax. But, for those people, the insurance needs to pay around 1 million or more or it is NOT worthwhile to buy insurance. The premium for life insurance that pay more than 200K is so high that it is NOT worth the tax savings.

Dreamer

You can PMed me too and I will look into it fairly.

Dreamer

Whether you like it or not, it is still a valid reasoning here, comparing Malaysian tax rates to other countries. Why? What else is there to compare to?

Does it matter if a fresh graduate earns less in a year compared to the amount of tax that a rich person pays out? You argument only holds should the fresh graduate need to pay the same 27% tax as well.

Fact is, when it comes down to it, there's far better ways to do tax deduction, of which you had totally ignored.

Rich ppl they don't buy insurance for protection. They bought it for other different factors such as for key-man insurance, or for its creditor-proof feature etc etc.

That is why i said different ppl buy insurance for different purposes. U kept pressing that we should only emphasize on protection. Protection is one a key feaure. Some ppl buy it for other minor feature.

Don't say rich ppl dont buy insurance. I known ppl that pays 20k to 80k anually jz for insurance! There are also few that pays 200k to more than 1 mil for a lump sum payment!

Now these rich businessman are SMART consumers bcos most of them are self made millionaires. Now are we so smart to 'con' them into buying insurance?

Ya know, I'd like a chance to meet u up dreamer and show you the term insurance so tha we can study together. You can tell me all the negative things about it. Its good to gain more knowledge. Whatdaya say we meet next year January? this month hav to rush for production...

Your argument holds true for those earning below RM100k. You win.




Sorry la i only learn about insurance.. and not other thing....Perhaps you knowledge on tax deductables can enlighten me and also those that doesn't know?
Would you mind to post the better ways? I'd like to learn

Here's an excerpt stated in the contract,

Permanent Total Disabilty Benefit - provided that such Permanent Total Disability has continued for a period of 12 consecutive months.

Here's the definition

"Total and Permanent Disability" means permanent, total and continous disablement which wholly prevents the insured from ever engaging in any gainful work, occupation or business for which he/she is reasonably qualified or fitted by knowledge, training or experience.

While the insured is above age 60 and is not engaging in any gainful work, occupation or business at the time of the injury, the insured shall only be deemed permanently and totally disabled if he/she sustains injury causing a permanent inability to perform three (3) or more Activities of Daily Living as herein defined either with or without the use of mechanical equipment, special devices or other aids and adaptations in use for disabled persons.

"Activities of Daily Living" shall have the following meanings:

(a) Transfer - Getting in and out of a chair wihtout requiring physical assitance

(b) Mobility - The ability to move from room to room without requiring assistance.

© Continence - The ability to voluntarily control bowel and bladder functions such as to maintain personal hygiene.

(d) Dressing - Putting on and taking off all necessary items of clothing without requiring assistance of another person.

(e) Bathing/Washing - The ability to wash in the bath or shower (including getting in and out of the bath or shower) or wash by any other means.

(f) Eating - all tasks of getting food into the body once it has been prepared.

Hope this clarifies things a bit, and just for reference purposes the company I represent is an american company.

Permanent Total Disabilty Benefit - provided that such Permanent Total Disability has continued for a period of 12 consecutive months.

Here's the definition

"Total and Permanent Disability" means <PERMANENT>, <TOTAL> and continous disablement which wholly prevents the insured from <EVER> engaging in any gainful work, occupation or business for which he/she is reasonably qualified or fitted by knowledge, training or experience.

The above is the Malaysia total and permanent disability insurance and definition of disability.

The followings are the USA definition of disability and the USA Long Term Disability insurance

http://www.disabilitybenefits101.org/ca/pr...td/program2.htm

Definition of Disability

LTD providers use two common definitions of "disability":

1. Own Occupation or "Own Occ": to be considered disabled you must be unable to perform your own occupation. Generally, you will get a benefit check for between two and five years.
2. Any Occupation or "Any Occ": to be considered disabled you must be unable to work in any occupation. Generally, you will get a benefit check until you can go back to work or until the policy ends.


Do you noted the difference?? In Malaysia Total and Permanent Disability insurance, you have to be

A) Disabled -> Not being above to work.

Plus your disability must be TOTAL and Permanent. That means you can NEVER work again.

In USA system, as long as you cannot work, you are disabled. Your disability DO NOT have to be total and permanent.

For example, let's say you get sick and you cannot work. But, your sickness may or may not be judged permanent. Hence, you may not be covered under the Total and Permanent Disability insurance.

Dreamer

P.S.: It is up to individual to decide whether this kind of disability insurance is for them or not. But, always read and understand the contract fully.

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Dec 9 2006, 05:30 AM

When it comes to buying investment linked insurance, basically you are buying a 2 in 1 product, insurance and unit trust combined. The advantage of such a product is that you get the best of both worlds.

Basically it caters to those whom wants protection as well as an investment component. These are the people that have limited time, knowledge and experience about investing whom wants protection convenience in an all in one package.

And because of that 'convenience' you pay the insurer the cost of insurance (COI) as well as the cost to manage your money, the task of helping you invest in the funds you prefer. As to the breakdown of the costs, it differs slightly from each insurer.

The 2 types of investment linked insurance are the Regular premiums & Single premiums. Both invests in a wide range of investment funds covering real estate, equity, fixed interest, local, international, internal and external, etc.

Regular premium products cater to those that want adequate insurance and yet do not have an initial large capital to invest but would like to invest in smaller amounts over a period of time. Its roughly a 40/60 breakdown for the initial 1st-2nd years while gradually shifting towards 100% investment in the later 3rd-7th years. This is done so that in case your investment suffer any loses during the initial few years, you would still have full insurance coverage over the period of time. As your investment grows, the cost of the insurance is deducted from the units gained from your investments.

Single premiums on the other hand works exactly similar to Unit Trust and yet it offers you a little bit of protection with negligable COI. Caters to those whom have a larger initial capital and would still like enjoy the tax advantages of an insurance product.

In both types, ad-hoc top-ups, withdrawals and fund switching can be done anytime. Dollar cost averaging concept is used for these products as it eliminates the emotion factor as well as the need to time the market.

Do bear in mind that purchasing an investment linked insurance is a medium to long term commitment and is not meant to be a short term profit taking product.

Hope this can be useful for those considering to purchase investment linked insurance products.

<< When it comes to buying investment linked insurance, basically you are buying a 2 in 1 product, insurance and unit trust combined. The advantage of such a product is that you get the best of both worlds.

Basically it caters to those whom wants protection as well as an investment component. These are the people that have limited time, knowledge and experience about investing whom wants protection convenience in an all in one package.

And because of that 'convenience' you pay the insurer the cost of insurance (COI) as well as the cost to manage your money, the task of helping you invest in the funds you prefer. As to the breakdown of the costs, it differs slightly from each insurer. >>

Unless you know how to do the calculation and the insurance agent actually breakdown those cost and tell you exactly what is the RETURN, you have NO idea how much you are paying for this convenience and how much is your ACTUAL return.

You need to compare this to buying your own basic life insurance plus UNIT TRUST/FD.

Know what you are buying and how much you are paying for the "convenience".

Dreamer

There's more under the contract:

Temporary Disabiltity Benefits
- provided disability period is not less than one week and maximum payments do not exceed 52 weeks.

These are the definitions under it:

Temporary Total Disability - disablement which prevents the insured from performing ALL of the duties of his occupation.

Temporary Partial Disability - disablement following Temporary Total Disablement continously prevents the insured from performing SOME of the duties to his occupation.

There are still coverage for the above and I do believe that it is quite similar to the LTD though it might be worded differently. And yes, the products they have there are far more superior and we're still far behind.

I think the one type of insurance that malaysia doesnt have yet is retrenchment insurance.

Isnt that labelled as income protection insurance, where you will be paid a regular income stream in the period that you are disabled. In australia, there is a distinction between income protection insurance and TPD

you mean unemployment insurance? my understanding of retrenchment benefits is where a company pays an employee retrenchment benefit from the employee's contribution (pension) in the event of retrenchment. Regarding unemployment insurance, i think it is hardly offered anywhere too even though it exists.

This post has been edited by GrooveCoverage: Dec 9 2006, 06:43 AM