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 Issue with notice period, "1 day does not equal to 1 day"

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TSgalecsys
post Oct 13 2015, 02:49 PM, updated 9y ago

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I have just been informed about this situation, and I not sure if any HR experts / lawyers can attest to this.

Upon tendering resignation and started notice period, there are options to either provide written notice in advanced, or make payment in lieu of basic salary, or to contra with annual leave balance. This has always been a common knowledge among working people.

Now here comes the case, I have just discovered that in this peculiar company, there is an unwritten policy which stated that you can't fully contra your notice period with your annual leaves, this is due to the differences in the way they calculate the compensation rate and the deduction / penalty rate.

For example:

1) I have 10 days of leave balances, which I choose to cash out.
HR's calculation:

Your annual pay / 365 x 10 days (compensation by company)

2) I have no leave balance, and I choose to pay in lieu to reduce the notice period by 10 days, HR will make me pay:

Monthly salary / 22 days x 10 days (deduction from employee's end)

OR

3) I have 10 days of leave balances, I opted to contra it to reduce the notice period.

HR will:

Your annual pay / 365 x 10 days = A
Monthly salary / 22 days x 10 days = B

C = Final month salary + A - B

Of which C would be the amount for my final payslip at the company, before deducting EPF and income tax.


Ok, for TLDR, you think you can settle for early release of 1 day by contra your 1 day AL, but in this peculiar company, you can't, due to the difference of the calculations above, which means, your 1 day doesn't equate "their" 1 day, after contra with your AL, you still need to pay the penalty.

This is the first in my life time to encounter such company, please share if you have similar experiences, and is this even legal under Malaysian law?

I did not ever come across any such clause written explicitly in the employment letter.

This post has been edited by galecsys: Oct 13 2015, 02:53 PM
MeToo
post Oct 13 2015, 03:00 PM

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HR cannot do that.

They are trying to short change the employee by changing the formula to suit them in whatever situation.

The calculation of compensation/leave is clearly outlined in the labour law.
gana2056
post Oct 13 2015, 03:03 PM

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If its not in the contract when you sign it then whatever unspoken rules dont apply. my advise is you force their a little bit byt asking them the 10 AL and go lepak, when they ask you to pay, just igonre because its not in their contract.

happened to me before. most to most they will kacau you for 2 months but will never initiate legal proceedings because the cost of getting a lawyer vs actually getting to you to pay the difference is too great. hope this helps
TSgalecsys
post Oct 13 2015, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(gana2056 @ Oct 13 2015, 03:03 PM)
If its not in the contract when you sign it then whatever unspoken rules dont apply. my advise is you force their a little bit byt asking them the 10 AL and go lepak, when they ask you to pay, just igonre because its not in their contract.

happened to me before. most to most they will kacau you for 2 months but will never initiate legal proceedings because the cost of getting a lawyer vs actually getting to you to pay the difference is too great. hope this helps
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the employment contract is pretty standard

"2 month notice in advance or payment in lieu of basic salary"

it did not elaborate further

I mean for Malaysians, we are all used up for the 1 day leave in exchange for 1 day notice period kind of concept

where got 1 day leave, after traded it, still have to pay the balance??


gana2056
post Oct 13 2015, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(galecsys @ Oct 13 2015, 03:08 PM)
the employment contract is pretty standard

"2 month notice in advance or payment in lieu of basic salary"

it did not elaborate further

I mean for Malaysians, we are all used up for the 1 day leave in exchange for 1 day notice period kind of concept

where got 1 day leave, after traded it, still have to pay the balance??
*
strange la bro. Better seek clarification from HR mgr, because where i work we work 7H30min a day but in HR portal is calculated as 7:36. 7:36 = 1 day. for AL/EL. so if your place using different metric to calculate then seek clarification. because it looks likes they trying to tekan you
deodorant
post Oct 13 2015, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(galecsys @ Oct 13 2015, 02:49 PM)
Upon tendering resignation and started notice period, there are options to either provide written notice in advanced, or make payment in lieu of basic salary, or to contra with annual leave balance. This has always been a common knowledge among working people.

1 and 2 yes, but 3rd option -- wrong, it is not a standard practice that every company must follow. If a company says their policy doesn't allow you to contra with AL balance then you have to suck thumb and serve entire notice period (assuming you don't want to pay any money).
TSgalecsys
post Oct 13 2015, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(deodorant @ Oct 13 2015, 03:39 PM)
1 and 2 yes, but 3rd option -- wrong, it is not a standard practice that every company must follow. If a company says their policy doesn't allow you to contra with AL balance then you have to suck thumb and serve entire notice period (assuming you don't want to pay any money).
*
allow or not allow is another matter

right now there isn't any written / clear policy from HR side, it is very nontransparent

right now I can only assume, based on the formulas in first post, if one were to buy himself out, the payment in lieu would be more than the 1 month of basic salary already

deodorant
post Oct 13 2015, 03:52 PM

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QUOTE(galecsys @ Oct 13 2015, 03:50 PM)
right now I can only assume, based on the formulas in first post, if one were to buy himself out, the payment in lieu would be more than the 1 month of basic salary already

Oh I was only commenting on that first 1-2 sentences in your original post (which I fully understand is not the point you are trying to make in this thread).

Your HR using two different calculation methods can only be described as a dick move. But as I don't quite know whether you have any recourse under the law, I'll defer to other HR experts to comment smile.gif
thoyol
post Oct 13 2015, 05:25 PM

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ok, this is an interesting discussion. Based on my knowledge, the method of calculation of A is against the law & the calculation for B is a good practice (above the minimum requirement).

As for A, it suppose to be against minimum 26 days instead of 365 days so the method is totally wrong.

As for B, it depend on company practice. Some company calculate against calendar days, some company using 21/22 days per month.

How the company should calculate is to minus the AL from the remaining working days in the month (minus weekend/PH). So the notice can be earlier. However most of company does mention in the offer letter that it is the prerogative of the company to allow for short notice.

Anyway since this company doesn't comply with the law, you can sue them if they want to take any action against you.

Good luck..
YoungMan
post Oct 13 2015, 07:54 PM

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Just consult labour department and let them knock knock on your company's door. They sure don't want to get into trouble with labour dep.
TSgalecsys
post Oct 13 2015, 09:16 PM

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thanks all for the input, keep it flowing smile.gif

right now, I don't have concrete proof yet, as I am not yet in my last day, hence not yet receive the final payroll

worst scenario, though I doubt it will happen, is they will withhold my final payment by making up funny excuses, haha


chickenshit36
post Oct 14 2015, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(galecsys @ Oct 13 2015, 02:49 PM)
I have just been informed about this situation, and I not sure if any HR experts / lawyers can attest to this.

Upon tendering resignation and started notice period, there are options to either provide written notice in advanced, or make payment in lieu of basic salary, or to contra with annual leave balance. This has always been a common knowledge among working people.

Now here comes the case, I have just discovered that in this peculiar company, there is an unwritten policy which stated that you can't fully contra your notice period with your annual leaves, this is due to the differences in the way they calculate the compensation rate and the deduction / penalty rate.

For example:

1) I have 10 days of leave balances, which I choose to cash out.
HR's calculation:

Your annual pay / 365 x 10 days (compensation by company)

2) I have no leave balance, and I choose to pay in lieu to reduce the notice period by 10 days, HR will make me pay:

Monthly salary / 22 days x 10 days (deduction from employee's end)

OR

3) I have 10 days of leave balances, I opted to contra it to reduce the notice period.

HR will:

Your annual pay / 365 x 10 days = A
Monthly salary / 22 days x 10 days = B

C = Final month salary + A - B

Of which C would be the amount for my final payslip at the company, before deducting EPF and income tax.
Ok, for TLDR, you think you can settle for early release of 1 day by contra your 1 day AL, but in this peculiar company, you can't, due to the difference of the calculations above, which means, your 1 day doesn't equate "their" 1 day, after contra with your AL, you still need to pay the penalty.

This is the first in my life time to encounter such company, please share if you have similar experiences, and is this even legal under Malaysian law?

I did not ever come across any such clause written explicitly in the employment letter.
*
hi i think labor law there clearly state annual leave value must be calculated by dividing 25 or 26 days.(forgot already). HR can use their own method but the value must not be worse than the formula stated.
5 years ago i also argued this with a china company. reason being it was chinese new year and i took unpaid leave because i was still in probation, and they charged me my salary/no of working days in february which is bullshit because in february that year only around 16 working days.

they should calculate salary/26 days. i read the labor law. u can download it and read yourself. highlight it and send it to them. bullshit companies i tell u

This post has been edited by chickenshit36: Oct 14 2015, 10:24 AM
chickenshit36
post Oct 14 2015, 10:23 AM

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QUOTE(galecsys @ Oct 13 2015, 09:16 PM)
thanks all for the input, keep it flowing smile.gif

right now, I don't have concrete proof yet, as I am not yet in my last day, hence not yet receive the final payroll

worst scenario, though I doubt it will happen, is they will withhold my final payment by making up funny excuses, haha
*
haha this is expected already. i worked in 2 chinaman companies

both did not pay out my claims. total a few k after my resignation. typically for them their claim come in 2 months later... u claim today 2 months later only get. bullshit
but heck got out of those toxic companies, with better salary.

so next time u resign, avoid doing things that need you to claim.. coz u probably wont get it back lol. just sit on your ass. these kind of companies no need give face. bullshit companies
TSgalecsys
post Oct 15 2015, 08:45 AM

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QUOTE(chickenshit36 @ Oct 14 2015, 10:20 AM)
hi i think labor law there clearly state annual leave value must be calculated by dividing 25 or 26 days.(forgot already).  HR can use their own method but the value must not be worse than the formula stated.
5 years ago i also argued this with a china company. reason being it was chinese new year and i took unpaid leave because i was still in probation, and they charged me my salary/no of working days in february which is bullshit because in february that year only around 16 working days.

they should calculate salary/26 days. i read the labor law. u can download it and read yourself. highlight it and send it to them. bullshit companies i tell u
*
did you manage to get back the amount due?

have you brought this up to the labor department, please share your experience if you do, I am keen to know what's the procedures involved, and what's the usual turn around time nod.gif


chickenshit36
post Oct 15 2015, 11:28 AM

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QUOTE(galecsys @ Oct 15 2015, 08:45 AM)
did you manage to get back the amount due?

have you brought this up to the labor department, please share your experience if you do, I am keen to know what's the procedures involved, and what's the usual turn around time nod.gif
*
Nope. She didn reply my email back and during my probation review she gave me bad review lol.

Nvm la left already. Crap company

 

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