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MilitaryMadness
post Dec 7 2015, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(waja2000 @ Dec 7 2015, 10:59 AM)
that is in 197X ...
technology change now huge different compare to 30 year ago. even 10 year ago.
as expert said went dominate air power you dominate all.
your can have good SAM defense, but depend how many stock missile your have, specially cost SAM now ....
anemy even can fire even empty warhead missile to reduce your SAM quantity. 
just time matter.
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It's not like air defense tech also stayed still from the 70's. Fighter tech moved hand-in-hand with anti-aircraft tech. It's kinda inevitable. Any advantage each side has will inevitably be countered by the other.

Back then the Phantoms and Skyhawks were state-of-the-art fighters and still they got shot down by the SAMs of their generation. So it's not outside possibility today's latest-generation fighters can still fall victim to the latest-generation SAMs.
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 7 2015, 08:26 PM

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QUOTE(KLboy92 @ Dec 7 2015, 05:40 PM)
azrielNice pics. I think we should get Caesar rather than those Paladins, I know its not under armour but how capable is the Paladin of crossing our roads, fields and plantations?
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Essentially they can go where tanks can go. Although it looks bulky, Paladin SPH are far lighter than most MBTs, at around 25 tons (PT-91 weigh in at 45 tons) and have lower ground pressure.

As a rule of thumb tracked vehicles fare better in offroad situations than wheeled ones and make better all-round combat vehicles.

This post has been edited by MilitaryMadness: Dec 7 2015, 08:36 PM
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 7 2015, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(KLboy92 @ Dec 7 2015, 09:03 PM)
PT-91 is 45 tons? Thats not awe-inspiring, looking at the 65+ of M1A2...
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The difference in size between M1 Abrams and T-72 makes it obvious M1 will be far heavier. M1 probably around 1/4 bigger than T-72.

user posted image
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 7 2015, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Dec 7 2015, 10:17 PM)
S400 battle proven or not it still pain in the ass to get lock on once enter syria airspace.
If russia manage to get some df21d from China it would be very interesting to deploys at Syria. laugh.gif
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Is it really necessary for Russia to go to China for missile tech? I still have the impression Russia is king in all things related to ICBM.
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 7 2015, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(yinchet @ Dec 7 2015, 10:30 PM)
Not really sure if russia have carrier killer missile of its own.
P800 not enough power.
Need some carrier killer. US confirm pening
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Whatever is said about it, I'm somehow still not convinced an ICBM warhead from orbit has the necessary accuracy to hit a moving target.

MilitaryMadness
post Dec 8 2015, 02:01 PM

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QUOTE(sniper on the roof @ Dec 8 2015, 01:58 PM)
Oopps... wrong impression given.

I don't mean the photo.. I mean that it sounds like promoting the scorpion.
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Scorpion probably too costly for low-level COIN airstrikes. Usually these COIN strike planes types are converted prop-engined light planes.


MilitaryMadness
post Dec 8 2015, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(KLboy92 @ Dec 8 2015, 02:48 PM)
Whether Scorpion or Texan 2, the modifications to make them capable of this kind of ground attack is not cheap and it comes up to a few tens of million anyway. And I shudder to think what the ISIS's AAA cannons and MANPADs would do to them.
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While modified prop-engine COIN planes may be costly as a whole, they are not as costly individually as high-tech strike aircraft like Scorpion(Embraer Super Tucano typically only costs around $ 10-14 million USD per unit).

Good precision stand-off weapons and advanced electro-optical sensors can place them as far away from insurgent's AA guns as needed. As they are mostly being powered by piston or turboprop engines, they generate less IR signature compared with a plane with jet engines making it very difficult to aim with MANPADS.

Being slow also makes the IR signatures generated from friction be reduced dramatically. Powered by propellers also makes them far less noisy than jet engined planes.

Nonetheless, I think for this type of operation, armed UAV like Reaper are more suited. hmm.gif
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 9 2015, 09:41 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Dec 9 2015, 08:49 AM)
The 55+ tons of the Indonesian Army Leopard 2A4 tank operating well in the Indonesian tropical soil & environment.
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I don't get why people are scared of heavy tanks in tropical environment. The tank's caterpillar tracks spread out its weight over a larger area. Instead of concentrating all of its weight on a few road tyres like a normal wheeled vehicle, a caterpillar track spread the vehicle's weight over a significantly larger surface area, lowering the ground pressure.

A 65+ ton M1 Abrams tank has a lower ground pressure (100 Psi) than an average 1 ton family car (190 Psi). The main problem tanks have on soft ground or off-road situations are the tracks themselves, which are made from hard metal that will do damage to driving surfaces by churning up the soft ground, but that is the inevitable effect of using tracks on soft ground, not due to the weight of the vehicles themselves. Even a 1 ton vehicle using a caterpillar track will do this type of damage, so the weight of a tank is irrelevant in this matter.
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 9 2015, 10:53 AM

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QUOTE(azriel @ Dec 9 2015, 10:07 AM)
Totally agree with you. Even the Russian T-Series tanks ground pressure are much higher than the Leopard 2 tanks.

Some will argue that bridges in Indonesia could not accomodate the weight of a 55-60+ tons MBTs. FYI early this year around 14 Leopard 2A4 tanks were transported by transporters from their bases in Java through land to South Sumatera for an exercise passing several bridges without any difficulties.
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Most steel or concrete bridge can accommodate a 50-60 ton tank crossing quite well due to the fact the tank is constantly moving, so its weight doesn't remain in place for too long. As long as you don't stop, the bridge should do fine.

Although due to avoid overstressing the bridge structure, the crossing may involve only one tank crossing at a time, which can be tactically dangerous due to the bottleneck this may produce.

If no suitable bridge can be found you could either deploy an assault bridge or if the riverbanks are climbable just have the tanks swim it.
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 9 2015, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(KLboy92 @ Dec 9 2015, 02:24 PM)
hmm.gif I think what the article means is that Tu-22/22M doesn't have laser targeting pods...? its perfectly capable of launching guided weapons.
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Laser targeting pod usually for shorter-range weapons with line-of-sight aiming like LGB or AT missiles. The usual weapons loadout for Tu-22M usually consists of long-range cruise or Anti-ship missiles. These weapons are semi-autonomous and don't require constant laser illumination which a laser targeting system provides.

So it would't surprise me if Tu-22M actually doesn't have any laser targeting system.
MilitaryMadness
post Dec 9 2015, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(KLboy92 @ Dec 9 2015, 02:45 PM)
Well the British had to develop the Scorpion specifically for Malaysian terrain, and they actually fought using armoured cars here. They must know something we don't.

Armour is too vulnerable these days to precision guided weapons. I still think light antitank vehicles are better suited, even gun armed tanks. The Europeans believe in it, US and Russia don't. Incidentally the only US effort in this area was picked up by Thailand IIRC - the Textron Stingray.
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Broadly speaking, tropical countries make terrible tank country. Whatever areas isn't covered by jungles and plantations, are usually developed urban areas. There is't much open space for maneuver and too much area for ambushes.

Also, short of dumping Agent Orange over everything, there's too much jungle leaf cover for electro-optical equipment sensors to track anything from the air.

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