Hi All

I recently received an offer to pursue a PhD at one of the world’s top 10 engineering schools on the following arrangement:

- Fully funded by my company for 4 years. Condition is I’ll have to stick with the company for 2 years post-graduation and I’ll have to repay the funding if I leave before then. Doesn’t count if I’m made redundant.
- Working with familiar supervisors (we have collaborated on different projects).
- PhD topic is work related. I will still be working for my company for 4 days with 2 remaining days (including weekend) spent in the university. The research and my work are inter-related / complimentary.
- Because I’m working for 4 days, I will have to take a 20% pay cut.

I’ve considered the pros and cons.

Pros
- Connection between work + research will mean after I graduate, I have enough knowledge and experience to be an expert in my field.
- Promotion to director level as a technical expert. This is as discussed with the company manager responsible for this.
- Additional opportunities to move into lecturing at university. This aligns with my longer term plan.
- Satisfy my personal aspiration of contributing to the scientific knowledge.
- A subject that I like (I’m already doing research in this area on my own time). A PhD is to formalise this.

Cons
- Loss of 20% additional income for 4 years.
- Will be 35-36 by the time I graduate.
- Primary focus for four years will be on the PhD and not developing my career.
- Not being able to finish the PhD (time wasted).
- Change in company manager, i.e. reporting to a new manager not as keen on these things.
- Stuck with the same company + manager for the duration of the PhD. Less flexibility to change company.

In short, I’m trying to decide, and see if there’s anything I need to be mindful of.

All opinions welcomed, many thanks!

This post has been edited by Geminist: Aug 18 2015, 02:18 PM

Listing pros and cons is a good start, I see that you've more interest in pursuing pHD than to worry about your career. This opportunity to study pHD coincides with your career, plus your company agreed to fund your pHD and promoted to the Director level, which is a great bonus!

I am for pursuing your pHD; because ultimately I see that you would find pHD to be more fulfilling, plus you get to continue your career later on. Don't worry about the "What If's" (such as unable to complete pHD or new manager or age). Deal with them when the time comes. Thats my 2 cents though, if you're still unsure, you have to ask yourself this one question,

1. Can you foresee yourself being capable of balancing between work and pHD? pHD students in my uni dedicated full time for 4 years. Adding career/work into the mix might increase your overall workload.

TL/DR: I am for pHD!

This post has been edited by RisingTide: Aug 18 2015, 12:53 PM

Many thanks for the opinion.

This was one of my worries, i.e. why the supervisor thinks I can do it in 4 years part time and if so, why would a full time PhD also take 4 years.

The career workload was a worry and I discussed this with past students of the supervisors who completed it under similar arrangement, i.e. work + study. I have the advantage I will be continuing the research I did with the supervisors and I am coming in with my own topic, so I've done a lot of the initial leg-work.

Are you married? Have any family commitments?

If no, I would say go for it as you would not be too adversely affected by the 20% paycut (think of it as subsidising your PhD course) while you can/should be able to handle the workload with no fear of a kid popping up in that 4 years.

At the end of the day, its well worth the effort as you gained some very marketable skills/qualification to propel you along your career path.

The 2 year bond is also very minimum, atleast its not 4~5 yrs some company is asking for.

The time frame for pHD is broken down into few parts,

Data Gathering + Analysis + Writing Thesis.

Writing thesis takes a month (two months max) according to my friends who have pursued their pHD. Data collection and data analysis is the most time consuming part, which is why most pHD takes up to 4 years.
I have a friend who will be pursuing her pHD in finance, and she told me her about the time frame of her pHD, that it would require about 1 year to collect all the necessary data for her model.

Since (assuming) you've done most of the initial work, you've allocated more time for subsequent phases (data analysis) or to be used up as spare/buffer time for your career.

The only worry you have now is to be able to come up with a proper time management, or a work/phd schedule.

Care of share what are you other worries besides career workload?

I'm single currently. That's one reason why I want to do it now, than say when I'm 40 with more commitments.


Yes I've done the initial work, but will obviously need to do more digging. The work / PhD schedule concern is more of my company plucking me away on a major project and that eats into my PhD time.

My other worry is it'll be quite intensive, and whether I can deal with the PhD pressure or not. There is also the concern I may not be technically good enough to finish the PhD. The supervisors seem to think I can handle it (we've worked together before), but self doubt is one of my traits!

Thanks again for the comments.

This post has been edited by Geminist: Aug 18 2015, 01:25 PM

If given a chance like that, I definitely go for it.

TS,

1) Social / Family

A) Are you married?? -> No.

B) Do you have a girl friend now??

Essentially, you are delaying starting a family for 4 to 6 years. It may or may not matter to you. But, your future wife need to be less than 40 years old. Or else fertility could be a problem. I have friends that delayed starting a family until their wives is above 40 and they could not have a child even they tried all those fertility treatment.

This may or may not be a concern for you but it is something for you consider.

2) Financial

A) Financially, could you save money and grow investment with 20% pay cut?

B) How much more can you make a director? 10%?? 20%?? 30%??

C) If you do not make it as director, do you make more money as lecturer??

D) Will you get pay raise during this 4 years?

3) Career

A) Is it possible that being a Phd that you are too specialized and over-qualified for most jobs??

B) What is the likelihood that this specialization could turn out to be useless aka not marketable??

C) How bad is the problem of age discrimination in your area?? Please note that most engineering career has only a limited time span due to age discrimination. You are trading off 6 years of your best earning years for a Phd.

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Aug 19 2015, 12:39 AM

TS,

My gut instinct tell me that you want to do it and you are willing to pay the price. So, my general advice to you is to take up the Phd offer. My question is more along the line of letting you know the full price that you are paying by taking up this offer.

Unfortunately or fortunately, for most major decision in life, we have to THINK with our MIND but go with our HEART. That is what I LEARN.

Dreamer

Many thanks for the comments!

Thanks for the advice. I wanted to ask the question publicly as I know how narrow our vision can get when we are emotionally invested in a decision. My gut feeling tells me I want to do it, but I still want to make sure I weigh the pros and cons, and understand what potential mess / downfall I could be walking into.

Geminist,

I am ENTP. I met and dated my wife for less than 8 months. We had been married for 20+ years. So, do not try to get a mate. Just be what you are. Somehow and some where, at the right time, you will meet the right person..

Dreamer

From what I've read I can see that your heart is fixed on pursuing your pHD, but your mind is weighing out the pros and cons of future events (once you've undertaken your pHD).

I'd weigh the pros and cons of my decisions (that would affect future outcomes) to a certain extent; however I always kept reminding myself that "no future is set in stone", and I would always make the best out of my situation.

I tend of overanalyze things that would ruin my day, hence my advice is to keep things simple; focus on your main priority, and everything will eventually falls into place.

This post has been edited by RisingTide: Aug 19 2015, 11:48 AM

Let's just say that people have quit their jobs and have given up more than you have for a PhD so I think most people here would give you a resounding "yes" in taking up your PhD, especially if promotion is conditional on your completion.

Am in a similar position myself. Though could I ask, when you say you're doing research in your own spare time even without the pursuit of a PhD, why would you do research if not for publication, PhD?

Thanks for the comment.

Re the research, I am actually publishing them and also doing some peer reviewing work. I currently have one paper under review and I'm writing up the other. Publication is quite a good motivator for me to get things done!

My personal target is to submit one manuscript a year.

The own research done is for my own interest, but by publishing them, I can use them in my work as well.

This post has been edited by Geminist: Aug 21 2015, 09:41 AM

Thanks for the example. Hopefully it pans out that way for me too!

Ha ha, I believe this is a professional habit as I do work involving risk so I always like to get a good picture of something before deciding.

Dreamer101 covers most of the aspects
Just something to add, I always think that PhD is a lonely journey and must be fully committed.
Statically proven that The drop out rate for part time PhD candidates are higher than full time students.
I don't know which Uni is Top 10 engineering school which in Malaysia (guess you work in Malaysia), if it's local uni, then the fee shd be much affordable and u can apply mybrain to cover the fees plus monthly allowance.
Just my opinion

What do u mean by being entp?im also an entp, a female entp,

rara_ana,

NT normally get along and married SJ type person...

Dreamer

Thanks for the comment. Yes re the dropout rate hence I wanted to set a realistic timescale as I don't think I'd want to pursue a PhD that takes 6-8 years.

Unfortunately the university is abroad so I don't think I'm covered by local funding.

imho, only pursue PhD if you want to contribute to humanity. PhD=/=money.

If your target later in life is for financial freedom without worries, better to channel your energy towards it, rather than been tied up with your studies.

Think of Phd as something to drive your knowledge and contributes to the society. If you have enough money for yourself as well as future plans; then go ahead.

When you got commitment such as family and etc, it's hard for you to do it.

Hi All

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I have more or less decided to accept the offer. The university and my company will need to negotiate the finer details of the funding, including IP rights etc.

Wish you all the best.

Go for it. It's a life changing journey. You'll cherished it for the rest of your life. Something that cannot be quantify in monetary term.

Did mine a couple of years ago (PhD in Electronic Engineering).

Dear TS,

After reading your story which is similar to mine, I see that my case is easier to decide. Likewise, I am currently being offered a funded ECE PhD in a top ranked (>20) american university. I am now 28 which by the time the program completes, I am 32-33 yrs old. I am also hesitating for a few reasons:

- too old to start a family (currently single), had a virtual solution
- far away from my family
- phd project is restricted to the funded project

For the good sides:
- the advisor is an IEEE fellow with great research record.
- academically well known research university
- full time and funded

Career wise, I assume I will be employed somewhere in the USA/UK/Singapore upon graduation since boleh-land basically values very little of the PhD's. Assuming I graduate, don't think its an issue to secure a job given the reputation of the university in that nation. Although I don't have to work part time like you, all the obligations essentially make it to be similar to yours since an american university requires TA/RAship with loaded course work even for a PhD. Not to mention I have to prepare for PhD qualifier before being a "real" phd student. Publication is almost certainly an implicit requirement although I do enjoy it very much. I am currently completing my master with a conference pub and a high impact journal under review.

Whats actually holding me back is the support of family and being close with them. My research interest and desire are actually above all those career things. Given my experience in my research intensive master, I would say the hard work and pressure do not come from graduate study but being alone and sucking up all the ups and downs along the way.

As for starting a family, it is very common to meet your partner and get married while undertaking the phd. At least I have known a few persons who did that. Basically, you have to find one most disturbing reason of yours and try to overcome it. For me, its not being close enough with my family.

This post has been edited by blackangel: Oct 17 2015, 10:55 AM

Hi All

Following on my previous post, there has been some changes to the situation. While my company is still sorting out the paperwork, a different startup heard about this and approached me. Essentially the startup offered to fully cover the tuition fees but the total amount is less than what my company offered because the offer includes expenses + conferences costs etc.

Note that the startup is unlike the IT world. It's currently making a healthy profit and is not reliant on external sources of investment.

So in summary:

Startup Pros
* My research is interesting to and aligns with the work of the startup, but the primary reason is they wanted me to join them.
* Very flexible working arrangement, i.e. remote work from home and not fixed hours + some shiny new gears (engineer here!)
* I know the startup and the people well, so for a start I know they will do what they reasonably can to help me, i.e. I wouldn't be immediately tossed aside.
* Offered profit sharing

Startup Cons
* It's a startup so the company currently has a good 1 year workload projection but not beyond that. (Note the tuition fees will be paid upfront).
* I might burn bridges with my current company if I were to leave after all the effort they put in.
* The funding covers tuition fees only so I'll have to make up the rest via different funding. The startup tentatively suggested depending on financial performance they could cover those too.

Company Pros
* Funding is twice as much as the startup.
* Big company so better prediction with workload.
* Big company with a number of experts in there that I can more easily tap into.
* Maintaining the current reputation and relationship I built.
* I wouldn't burn bridges.

Company Cons
* Standard work arrangement, i.e. 9-5 office work.
* Salary offered is ~18% less than the startup.
* No profit sharing scheme.
* Less flexible than a startup due to the size of the company.

Personally I'm leaning towards going with the startup, provided I don't burn bridges with my current company. Can anyone think of anything else? Any opinions and suggestions are very much welcomed and appreciated, many thanks!

Geminist,

It is a tossed up. But, in general, I leaned more towards places that really want you and will do anything to get you. Hence, the start up.

Dreamer

Id say go for it. I was planning to do same as what u got offered now. If I just not wasted my time doing nothing with my life for years aftergraduation , I wud have chances to get sponsor by company i suppose be working. 3 yes b nothing. 34 , 31 not much diff these days. I think the timescale wud b depend on ur supervisor. I did a rubbish master research, I know because im quite perfectionist student, but i got really
ddistracted the final years. And still my supervisor let
me pass just as anyone else. If the supervisor accept u
with ur working condition like that, chances he really
don't care what ur research result will be and ur time
scale will be llike the normally other students. Sometimes, they already can handle, or like doing their research on their own, they just need student to fill the quotas for the grant money. But still u need to show some effort and mmake ur rresearch presentable

I would suggest you to stay in the existing company for PhD.

If you moved to new startup and new PhD at the same time, your lifestyle will be completely changed. You will lost all the familiarity and may need times to cope on such changes. Your existing company trained you and provided further supports to train you up to PhD level. It has doubt on your loyalty on the committed works with the previous employers. This may not be good impression for your future employer as well.

If you aimed for new startup for passion not money, it is worth go ahead.

iyup exactly correct. Actually i have my own goal but even im not further for pHd i can also be the best right . In case my dad asked and force me hmmm

Did you take the offer? Working under an IEEE Fellow gives you loads of opportunities to publish and network. Great opportunity for you to grab.

You can always come back once you're done. Still have some opportunities and areas where your skills are needed here. I decided to come back after my PhD. I would say I'm saving as much in Malaysia as an average engineer of my level and skill-set would in Silicon Valley.

I came back to be with my family as well. Of course, I always have the urge to leave once in a while to explore the world, but I'm quite satisfied here. It's not perfect, but it's good enough.