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 Electricity consumption, Query

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SUSkimsim
post Jul 9 2015, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 9 2015, 11:50 AM)
Nope, I own 2 storage heaters, and purposely leaving it on for few days. The extra was about 2kw
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Not sure about your?

Mine is before moving in, and usually will monitor the meter run before I going off.

But here is S'pore
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 12:04 PM)
Not sure about your?

Mine is before moving in, and usually will monitor the meter run before I going off.

But here is S'pore
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Doesn't matter where you are. The working concept of storage is to retain the heat, and if not used the heat still there and the heating element will not run.


SUSkimsim
post Jul 9 2015, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 9 2015, 12:19 PM)
Doesn't matter where you are. The working concept of storage is to retain the heat, and if not used the heat still there and the heating element will not run.
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I guess the different brand should be different work.

Can be keep 30mins to 1hr boiler a once, even keep warm can be cost more, like my friend never turn of sometime and burned the whole storage tank.

The power socket are burned
user posted image

This post has been edited by kimsim: Jul 9 2015, 01:13 PM
aeiou228
post Jul 9 2015, 02:00 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 9 2015, 11:50 AM)
billing cycle was from 15 may to 16 jun. approximately 32 days. I checked this on the bill.
Things just don't make sense.
my consumption from 16 june to 7 july is 950kwh!! which is about 21 days meaning my consumption per day is 45kwh.
I started monitoring from 7 july till this morning and my consumption for 2 days is about 66kwh or about 33kwh per day.
*
Beside monitoring the meter, you also need to trouble shoot the hike is not due to billing discrepancy, you need to check whether your RM700+ bill is E bill or N bill. If not mistake, TNB adopt Normal billing and Estimate billing on alternate month at certain area.
If the 2 bills are N bills, then please check the meter reading date is consistent or not ie about 30 days usage.

PJusa
post Jul 9 2015, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 11:46 AM)
I had forgotted to turn off my water storage tank 25L from 7am to 8pm the extra charge from just turn on power on is around 5 - 8kwh extra

If don't believe just try to leave it from morning till after work and see how many kW from the meter to compare as normally
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sorry but this is not correct and i am sure this was only your assumption not a meassurement. your boiler does not run full force when on until you off. its just not the case. no need to argue about it. install a meter for just the heater and come back.
PJusa
post Jul 9 2015, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 9 2015, 11:52 AM)
well....for the last 2 days since I started monitoring my meter...everything use will be turned off once finish. that include storage water heater and water pump.
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the thing is for two days you act more aware and safe power. you need to monitor longer. when you start to be less caring you get the real figures again. do it longer. water heater and pump will have a small effect only maybe 2-3 kWh per day depending on the amount and length of the hot showers and stuff you take. mostly hot water will be a factor. you can switch to gas heater if you like. way cheaper in the long run.

PJusa
post Jul 9 2015, 02:33 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 12:28 PM)
I guess the different brand should be different work.

Can be keep 30mins to 1hr boiler a once, even keep warm can be cost more, like my friend never turn of sometime and burned the whole storage tank.

The power socket are burned
user posted image
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dont be silly. all storage heaters work the same. they only differ in the quality of insulation and wattage (i.e. how long it takes to get the hot water from zero).
TSajai@jakes
post Jul 9 2015, 02:50 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jul 9 2015, 02:31 PM)
the thing is for two days you act more aware and safe power. you need to monitor longer. when you start to be less caring you get the real figures again. do it longer. water heater and pump will have a small effect only maybe 2-3 kWh per day depending on the amount and length of the hot showers and stuff you take. mostly hot water will be a factor. you can switch to gas heater if you like. way cheaper in the long run.
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yup. will be monitoring till the new bill cycle to have a better idea of how much electricity I consume.
it just does not make any sense that I have to pay upwards of RM700 a month for my electricity bill.
TSajai@jakes
post Jul 9 2015, 02:51 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ Jul 9 2015, 02:00 PM)
Beside monitoring the meter, you also need to trouble shoot the hike is not due to billing discrepancy, you need to check whether your RM700+ bill is E bill or N bill. If not mistake, TNB adopt Normal billing and Estimate billing on alternate month at certain area.
If the 2 bills are N bills, then please check the meter reading date is consistent or not ie about 30 days usage.
*
this is the normal billing. I checked. so far both months are for normal billing and not estimate billing. the billing cycle for the RM700 bill is 32 days. I called to check.
SUSkimsim
post Jul 9 2015, 03:01 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jul 9 2015, 02:28 PM)
sorry but this is not correct and i am sure this was only your assumption not a meassurement. your boiler does not run full force when on until you off. its just not the case. no need to argue about it. install a meter for just the heater and come back.
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Anyway I can monitor from morning before I leave home and turn on the water storage tank and after 8pm go back home and clock extra 6-8 kWh, then you just help me to pay my bill

Talk is too simple, cause it one I had monitor b4.

Even Aircon 1hp forgot to turn off still clock less than 3kwh only from 7am to 8pm

This post has been edited by kimsim: Jul 9 2015, 03:06 PM
PJusa
post Jul 9 2015, 10:17 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 03:01 PM)
Anyway I can monitor from morning before I leave home and turn on the water storage tank and after 8pm go back home and clock extra 6-8 kWh, then you just help me to pay my bill

Talk is too simple, cause it one I had monitor b4.

Even Aircon 1hp forgot to turn off still clock less than 3kwh only from 7am to 8pm
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other consumer or the worlds least efficient water heater. one more time: water heaters dont continously heat water. pls try to understand how they work. there is no way a normal (i.e. not 1000l) water heater will use 6-8 kWh over say 8 hrs to keep water at 55° or whatever your setting is. especially not in the tropics where the storage has an ambient of approx. 30°. thats just bs.
SUSkimsim
post Jul 9 2015, 10:49 PM

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QUOTE(PJusa @ Jul 9 2015, 10:17 PM)
other consumer or the worlds least efficient water heater. one more time: water heaters dont continously heat water. pls try to understand how they work. there is no way  a normal (i.e. not 1000l) water heater will use 6-8 kWh over say 8 hrs to keep water at 55° or whatever your setting is. especially not in the tropics where the storage has an ambient of approx. 30°. thats just bs.
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Water instant heater won't drink the energy lah, just you press the button then heat up only

But water storage tank is different story.
Once you power on may cook & boiling the water and keep it warm until temp are drop to be heat up again.

Again 2500w = 2.5hp + 1hp Aircon power input watt
user posted image

Very simple work.. A day from 7am to 8pm in between has 3 time of boiling, on each boiling to be 2.5kwh x 3 times = 7.5kwh.. Maybe you wanna try to understand the work out

This post has been edited by kimsim: Jul 9 2015, 10:57 PM
SUSsupersound
post Jul 9 2015, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(ajai@jakes @ Jul 7 2015, 12:31 PM)
EDITED TO ADD WATER HEATER

Hi guys,

Need so input on electricity consumption. I just got my TNB bill and it costs me RM710.40 from 15 May to 15 June. What did I use that could make my bill go so high? Previously, in my old condo, my average bill was RM350.

Back ground information.

I just moved to alam impian in April
It is a 2 story intermediate.
Major electrical items:-

York inverter aircond 1hp x 3 sets = I only use 2 air conditioners from 10pm to 8am (10hours) and from 2pm to 4pm(2 hours) at temp 26c at the lowest fan.
Acson normal aircond 1hp x 2 sets = hardly use
Acson normal aircond 2hp 1 set = hardly use
Grundfos water pump 1.5hp = 1 set which I keep on 24 hours 7 days a week
Electrolux clothes dryer = +/-6 hours a week
Rubine brand built in oven which I use +/-5 hours a week
Rubine brand hood which I use everyday for +/-3 hours a day
Deep oil fryer (no brand) which I use +/- 1 hour a day
LCD 50 inch tv which is kept on from 8am to 10pm (14 hours) everyday (kids)
KDK ceiling fan I use 1 which is kept on from 8am to 11pm (15 hours)
Toshiba 700liter inverter fridge

FORGOT TO ADD:-
1 STORAGE WATER HEATER 35 LITERS
1 STORAGE WATER HEATER 50 LITERS
BOTH USED SPARINGLY

Those I think are the major electrical items which I use daily.
As for the lights in the house, I use 18watt LED downlights for the whole house.

Please help. I need to figure out what is causing such a high electricity bill.

Ajai@jakes[I]
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Nice oven you have there, consuming 3000W. Any normal oven can easily win your oven hands down on saving consumption. That's 60 units for 28 days.
Hob about 17 units
2 inverters with 10 hours usage, that's 448 units
2 inverters with 2 hours usage, that's 112 units
non inverters, maybe 20 units?
water pump, standby also will consume power, about 30-40 units
Others own self count, just check the label for wattage and calculate from there.
Just the above for 28 days already ~700 units.
weikee
post Jul 9 2015, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 10:49 PM)
Water instant heater won't drink the energy lah, just you press the button then heat up only

But water storage tank is different story.
Once you power on may cook & boiling the water and keep it warm until temp are drop to be heat up again.

Again 2500w = 2.5hp + 1hp Aircon power input watt
user posted image

Very simple work.. A day from 7am to 8pm in between has 3 time of boiling, on each boiling to be 2.5kwh x 3 times = 7.5kwh.. Maybe you wanna try to understand the work out
*
You have to understand, the reheating don't take up so much time. If the temperature is to reboil at 60, and cutoff at 70c (usually), it will take shorter time from 60c to 70c. Unless you have a leak in the one way valve where hot water is always move out from the storage than your storage will operate 24x7. Or your unit is so lousy that it doesn't come with any heat insulator which I think is impossible because singapore will bad such bad things.

I am using 35L, 3000watt storage water heater, once it reach the preset temperate 70c, it take at least 1/2 day before the reheat take place and it only take like 5mins to reheat.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 9 2015, 11:08 PM
SUSkimsim
post Jul 9 2015, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 9 2015, 11:07 PM)
You have to understand, the reheating don't take up so much time. If the temperature is to reboil at 60, and cutoff at 70c (usually), it will take shorter time from 60c to 70c. Unless you have a leak in the one way valve where hot water is always move out from the storage than your storage will operate 24x7.  Or your unit is so lousy that it doesn't come with any heat insulator which I think is impossible because singapore will bad such bad things.

I am using 35L, 3000watt storage water heater, once it reach the preset temperate 70c, it take at least 1/2 day before the reheat take place and it only take like 5mins to reheat.
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the bill is charge to me and not your, that is what I paid for, if each day I turn on 24 hrs to be extra charge, do you care about it?

Talk is simple thing, please do a proper calculate on morning time the 1st power on to be boiling will be clock on how many kWh do you record down? After reboil how many kWh? Again keep warm and How many KWh per hours?

If never turn on the power from morning till evening and where is the extra charge from?

Maybe your is inverter and using lesser power like 250w only
weikee
post Jul 10 2015, 07:53 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 11:20 PM)
the bill is charge to me and not your, that is what I paid for, if each day I turn on 24 hrs to be extra charge, do you care about it?

Talk is simple thing, please do a proper calculate on morning time the 1st power on to be boiling will be clock on how many kWh do you record down? After reboil how many kWh? Again keep warm and How many KWh per hours?

If never turn on the power from morning till evening and where is the extra charge from?

Maybe your is inverter and using lesser power like 250w only
*
Why you so ku ku one? Maybe ignorance is really a Bliss. No all thing using inverter will save money. Heating element is one . I am using two 35L storage, and been testing it before I move it. Left it switch on over night, it uses ~3.5kwh, I purposely do this to check the insulation and valve have any problem.

When the storage is with room temperature water, it take only 1.5kwh per storage to heat up the water, this i Measured too. It work out pretty close to what in the spec as it state required 30mins to heat the water to 70c from room temperature.

Many occasion we forgot to switch off the storage and when we came back from work only notice. Still the usage are only extra of 1Kwh at most.

If your storage have valve leaking, yes it on more frequent. And if you have doubt, just put a watt meter in between to monitor. Simple.
SUSkimsim
post Jul 10 2015, 08:14 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 10 2015, 07:53 AM)
Why you so ku ku one? Maybe ignorance is really a Bliss. No all thing using inverter will save money. Heating element is one . I  am using two 35L storage, and been testing it before I move it. Left it switch on over night, it uses ~3.5kwh, I purposely do this to check the insulation and valve have any problem.

When the storage is with room temperature water, it take only 1.5kwh per storage to heat up the water, this i Measured too. It work out pretty close to what in the spec as it state required 30mins to heat the water to 70c from room temperature.

Many occasion we forgot to switch off the storage and when we came back from work only notice. Still the usage are only extra of 1Kwh at most.

If your storage have valve leaking, yes it on more frequent. And if you have doubt, just put a watt meter in between to monitor. Simple.
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Ok you have your right reason for turn on 2.5 days but just charge on 2kwh only.

That is just for standby or maybe, you never write the on others usage like mixer tap for use on hot water or take rain shower in the morning time.

Maybe you are right.. The meter is located on outdoor my unit.
Usually won't clock that much, just only a while and forgotten and meter run few more kWh, that is very simple for who didn't turn off water storage tank only.

If like that then you just tells your customers can be able to turn on power n even not in used for water storage tank and see how they feedback you the right answer?

If the water storage tank won't draw a higher current and won't be burned on power socket at all.
weikee
post Jul 10 2015, 08:31 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 10 2015, 08:14 AM)
Ok you have your right reason for turn on 2.5 days but just charge on 2kwh only.

That is just for standby or maybe, you never write the on others usage like mixer tap for use on hot water or take rain shower in the morning time.

Maybe you are right.. The meter is located on outdoor my unit.
Usually won't clock that much, just only a while and forgotten and meter run few more kWh, that is very simple for who didn't turn off water storage tank only.

If like that then you just tells your customers can be able to turn on power n even not in used for water storage tank and see how they feedback you the right answer?

If the water storage tank won't draw a higher current and won't be burned on power socket at all.
*
What do you mean by "Ok you have your right reason for turn on 2.5 days but just charge on 2kwh only."? I never mention 2.5 days nor 2kwh. And I really CANNOT understand what you trying to say!


And I did not say Storage don't drain power. Storage heater drain power, but for a short period of time when it reheat the water inside.

Also, I never say leaving storage switch on is not going to use extra energy, I am proving to you leaving it on does not take that much energy that you calculate. You can understand or not? Your calculation are wrong and misleading.

This post has been edited by weikee: Jul 10 2015, 08:32 AM
SUSkimsim
post Jul 10 2015, 08:44 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Jul 10 2015, 08:31 AM)
What do you mean by "Ok you have your right reason for turn on 2.5 days but just charge on 2kwh only."? I never mention 2.5 days nor 2kwh.  And I really CANNOT understand what you trying to say!
And I did not say Storage don't drain power. Storage heater drain power, but for a short period of time when it reheat the water inside.

Also, I never say leaving  storage switch on is not going to use extra energy, I am proving to you leaving it on does not take that much energy that you calculate. You can understand or not? Your calculation are wrong and misleading.
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Then I said if forgotted to turn off power from morning till evening have extra 5-8kwh and what do you input from previous post?

Said my storage tank are lousy lah and heat lost of never do a insulation else..

Doesn't meant won't draw much power at all.

I guess you just used for instant heater only.

I really can't understand where you compare from? Just 2kwh only for whole day.

This post has been edited by kimsim: Jul 10 2015, 08:45 AM
idoblu
post Jul 10 2015, 10:37 AM

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QUOTE(kimsim @ Jul 9 2015, 10:49 PM)
Water instant heater won't drink the energy lah, just you press the button then heat up only

But water storage tank is different story.
Once you power on may cook & boiling the water and keep it warm until temp are drop to be heat up again.

Again 2500w = 2.5hp + 1hp Aircon power input watt
user posted image

Very simple work.. A day from 7am to 8pm in between has 3 time of boiling, on each boiling to be 2.5kwh x 3 times = 7.5kwh.. Maybe you wanna try to understand the work out
*
you are wrong again
instant heater needs full power all the time
storage heaters has conserved heat from previous usage and therefore do not need full power all the time
nobody ask you to leave the storage heater on 24x7. Just turn it on before you shower and turn off after use.

btw my storage heater is turn on 24 hours but mine is a heat pump storage heater la...

This post has been edited by idoblu: Jul 10 2015, 10:37 AM

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