Yup thats really true, its really hard to find competent, experienced, IT staff. This has been the case for every company that I've been with so far.

For fresh grads its a different story, its hard to get a job because not many companies are recruiting freshies compared to experienced staff. Take a look at jobstreet and jobsdb, look at all the ads, most of them will have a minimum years of experience. But that said, a fresh grad should really not complain about the minimum wage they are getting, personally I also feel that the average wage we offer here for IT fresh grads are a bit low (around RM1.5k on average isnt it?), but just do your time, after 1-2 years of experience you will get increases pretty easily, even if your current company doesn't offer you, a lot of others will.

Yeah, a lot of I.T. or C.S. graduates now have no idea which type of job they want to go into. They just head blindly in for the first reasonable offer they get, whether its a position as sysadmin, network admin, software developer, QA, etc. and find out later its not their cup of tea. It helps to at least narrow down which field and technology you want to build your career around. As an example, you might want to be a software developer using Microsoft/Sun related languages, etc. Switching specialization latter would mean you're almost starting from fresh, which means you just wasted a lot of your time and is not contributing anything to your career.

In fact, as you suggested, the university is a good place to find out. During the course of your studies, a student will no doubt be expose to the difference aspects through the subjects they take, i.e. networking, programming, etc. which is a good way to find out which one sparks the most interest.

That why I said, the mentality in Malaysia is all wrong in regards to the IT industry. As I said, its a vicious cycle, most of the management had it the same way, thru luck and perserverance and some thru hardwork they were promoted to management, so after years of getting whiped now its their time to give it, not because they are bad people, because they are technical people and the only management knowledge they have is the one they participated in when they were managed, so to them management means whipping at programming slaves as they were once whipped before. That is why management is really bad here in the I.T. industry.

Forget about hiring experienced managers, because all the managers i've met so far came thru from the same path. I've never met any I.T. managers here in Malaysia that were actually trained management professional (i.e. got a degree or some diploma in management) and started out in a managerial position (either as a management trainee or assistant manager) rather that started out in a technical position and then got promoted. The scenario is almost impossible in Malaysia, because the mentality is that any form of managerial role means 'Boss' and no one becomes 'Boss' without jumping thru hoops and doing the full circus act. This mentality is really stupid and archaic, in reality managers and technical staffs all play a very important role, each complementing another not one whipping the other.

actually employer do appreciate the IT devision, but only when they can see the result, ie improved network traffic etc coz they can feel it fast, etc
but they never never appreciate on how we constantly monitor, think for solution etc, with are consuming brain-cells n time, n whats-more propose to upgrade hardware (pay peanuts, want king class facility kind of mentality =__= )

*talking from network engineering POV

Here are some tips when writing a resume

1. Emphasize the skills related to that particular area that you want to work on
2. DO NOT EVER wrote MS-Office as one of your skills!!!
3. Write ALL your RELATED work experience in details, the tools you use etc...
4. If you want a job for programmer for example, DO NOT EVER write your work experience in say, waitress. Employer DON"T CARE. In fact we might think that you're a lousy programmer who cannot get a job.

This post has been edited by ergo_etc: Nov 2 2006, 10:04 AM

there're a lot of job sux too. ppl who study IT at least they're aiming for an IT job. many ppl who study random course assigned by government(yeah) in public U apply jobs blindly.

but then u seldom see them here bcoz they seldom make good use of forum. in fact almost all of us here doing computer related job. no?

On number 4), actually it does not hurt, especially if you've taken that kind of job on a part time basis during your undergrad years. One thing that needs to be kept in mind is, IT alone for the sake of IT is useless. Its how you can apply IT to be used into other areas that's where IT will have its value in.

If you're applying for a company that does POS terminals. Having worked as a waiter or waitress might be an advantage, as that might give you an insight to the issues that retail places have or are grumbling about when it comes to their POS systems.

^- they starting to value u after u becoming no life, workaholic and just do everything and say "yes" to anything, staying damn late for company sake. still they value ur hardworking only and think that u one person can do multiple jobs, still never value ur skill.

a good and skill person wont always stays back as they already know wat they need to do and therefore accomplish things very fast, still these ppl are not good in employers eyes, as these guys oftenly leave on time and since finished things fast, they are consider "free" most of the times and get "more" jobs to do.

Actually, doesnt that also apply to work in all fields and not just IT?

^- yeap might be applied to all fields, but i can see IT the worst, i have quite some friends work till next day 3am den go back and start working again 8am -.- ..... this not for a few days but weeks... and usually they went off around 10 - 11 pm ....

like that better change job as other job....there are many jobs outside....pro or non pro jobs...see u can take your pride to work as hawker, hair stylist, etc...

work just part of our life, appreciate your life and the one you love, family...

Seriously lar, all fields are equally as bad. I've seen ppl in marketing doing the same type of hours as you had mentioned. Not to mention, auditors too, being flown from one place to the next without being able to take a break at all.

A friend of mine just joined an advertising firm a few months back. Same thing too. Its in the company culture, finishing work at 3am everyday and so forth.

^- if its like that, i really wondering wats happened in our country working culture. wat i can say is employees fault, those so called hardworking or workaholic employees actually started this kind of culture by staying late as of employers will look on them, slowly those employers expect such employees although its clearly against the law.

really like some multinational company or overseas working culture. they come on time and leave on time, if u wanted to stay back, u need to make a report and state down the reasons for the manager. staying back MEANS either u are not efficient enough or something wrong with their schedule.

those ppl that willingly stay back just for the sake of staying back are quite selfish i would say, one stay another follow and stay later, and then become culture, so later all work from 9am -10pm (assume 9am-5pm standard hours) and then later all work until 12am and so on, later and later by your children time i think they do not even need to sleep next time they work if this keeps going.

I am so enlighten after reading all the professional comments here written by veteran pros. Even though I do not have as much as 8 years of exp in IT but I do have some humble views.

It seem like theres a conflict of interest among education and industrial line. One blaming others for not giving changes for freshies to gain experience, the other one blaming that they are not getting the people they want.

Education system is being praised for teaching the students the way of thinking and learning. But in truth, how many of these students are as good as what they expect? Or, what the 'customers' expect? Students is like a product here, and the customers are those employers who seeking out capable employees. After all, after 20 years of education, most of the students are just doing what others(parents, gov, etc) what them to do, and there are barely any learning/thinking process, they are forced to memorised exam tips and print them down on answer paper during finals. And after 20 years of primary, secondary and tertiary education, many failed to understand common sense.

So, is this the exam system to be blamed? Is our education system up to the standard? Did our students really doing the right thing? Did our kids being exposed enough to be able to make decision on what they want or they are just overprotected? Or it is just our culture of being mass producing everything without focusing on quality?

The industrial lines are surely a very demanding lines, we cant blame them for being choosy on what people they want to use, because in the world of business, every seconds would means winning or losing a business which also indicate do or die for a company. They simply do not have the room for these freshies to play around, or spending valuable time to train these new people up about what they are expected to know, or spoonfeed them like what most education line did. And many companies who once dedicated on training up new people would learn a hard lesson that whenever they trained up a guy they would frog jump to a better offer, loosing not only human resource but also the valuable time which you would make millions. If spend a bit more can hire a guy that require no training and can take care multiple task, why not? Time = money.

Should we blame the industrial players being selfish? Or should we blame the job seekers not initiatives enough to learn more about the required skill? This is a chicken and egg problem, I dont get the job, I learn the skill for what? You dont have the skill I hire you for what? And the industrial players being selfish also due to tough competition by OTHER industrial players which tends to dig capable workers from competitors(like banks).

I worked as part of the support team for a conference about collaboration between education and industrial(sth like that), the education representative said they will make sure the students going into industrial training(attachment) will get the correct job scope otherwise they will warn the employer, the industrial rep have opinion that they are simply some cheap labour to operate the photostate machine.

How is that job really is actually depends on the student self, is he/she the one who always making its-note-my-job complaints, or he/she is the one who can accept any given task and perform? The first type will only conclude the employer whether they want to take this person or not in the future, the second type will be the one who make good impression.

Mindset is the key. Even only doing photostating job or cleaning toilet, you can also score a few thumbs up, showing how dependable you are.

Who would give you an expensive server to maintain if you cant even do a simple task?

My really humble 1/2 cents.

How true, taking the MS office off my resume right now

Anyway, always customize your resume according to the employer, if Java is what they want, show them the codes if necessary.

This post has been edited by rexis: Nov 2 2006, 11:25 AM

Yes... I experience this before... Project base. However if you company treat you good then another story. Like OT kao kao (alot) and appriciated your effort for bonuses and increament.

^- how if its not project based and u need to do so everyday with NO extra bonus and low increment?

You have a too narrow definition of IT.

You guys think there's a problem with the IT field, you should come and experience it in KK Its no where close to the level you guys are at (Which is bad)

How true this is, a respectible industrial player always said that he is not looking for 9-5 staff, they are just barely some mindless workers, they are looking for those who can dedicate themselves fully. Sort of like selling your soul to your company.

Well its really doesn't matter if it is your own project or at least you think that way, if you have to be so calculative then its better you off the job.

That what I do. If i must trade off my personal time for nothing but some dont-be-so-calculative sh!t, we are done. We the least is that I cant find any passion to continue being a mindless worker.

This post has been edited by rexis: Nov 2 2006, 12:17 PM

IMO, both Darun and Rexis comments hit the nail on the head on this one.

It is not the IT field itself sucks, it is pervasive bad corporate cultures (and some level of old boys club mentality) that sucks in Malaysia.

What do you think of the government role in this and its "policy" towards so called 'K-economy'?
Does it help or hurt this sector?

What about the so-called "Multimedia Corridor" that was created 10 years ago?
Supposingly, it should generate interests, investments and create thousands of jobs available and make Malaysia a regional IT hub (supposingly better than Singapore or India and model of an East Asian version of Silicon Valley). What happened now?


This post has been edited by netfan: Nov 2 2006, 12:22 PM

hmm does that means that a mindless worker, workaholic with totally no life apart from working life will one day become very successful and rich person and therefore everybody should follow just for that sake?