Seriously, you are the most confused person.. your post holds no technical merit with zero basis..

Wtf is "ramp down state" ?? Something you made up?

you're right ..

Cost wise its the DOL (direct online starter) with its start and run capacitors and various contactors and on/off nature of electrical motors that consume the highest amps (6 to 10 times of run amps)..

The inverter circuit board (which is the only difference and what you're paying extra) can modulate the voltage and frequency to vary the motor speed (i.e. variable speed) so you don't get that heavy current draw of the DOL..

First a technical reply that makes sense..

ok.. your AC clamp meter measures RMS AC current which isn't the proper way to measure inrush current i.e. ac motor starting amps..

Please watch this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rM2EtkXCbE its a youtube video by mjlorton..

I've watched it and do not pretend to understand his whole technical explanation but the gist of it is an ac motor inrush current* cannot be measured with a hall effect type clamp meter (the basic clamp meter we all know and love) which can only measure AC RMS amps

rather you need to have an oscilloscope to capture/record/playback the dc and ac inrush current form as basically he says this is where the 6x to 10x inrush current is present.. It's almost an instantaneous current spike at the peak of your ac sinosoidal voltage .. mmm.. maybe getting too technical here ..

basically he captures the inrush at above 22amps with 4amps being the run current..

but anyway have a look at the video and see if you can agree..

As a side note the EER of an inverter type motor will always be higher than a typical DOL start/stop as the input power gets lost as heat during the start/stop stage..

An inverter circuit bypasses this with its ability to control the frequency/voltage i.e. starting motor starting torque thus variable speed drive of the motor..

On any motor controlled via a thermocouple sensor (like your ac unit) having an inverter circuit is a no brainer as it pays for itself very quickly as we live in a hot humid country..

edit* typed motor when it should be current

This post has been edited by Richard: May 4 2016, 05:55 PM

ok.. here's the thing with electrical/electronics reliability its heat that destroy the components(shortens its life)..

An inverter circuit cuts down your current draw meaning reduced heat losses, smaller cable..

Discrete electronic component are to control voltage/frequency/current and the 90% main failure is poor installation and low quality source material.. The other being poor design and where Made in China gets a bad name..

But seems like they improving due to to the copy/produce from brand name manufacturers.. which is a good thing as we all can buy German design Made in china goods.. lol

it's more the start/stop nature of the air con motor that differentiate an inverter unit cost savings to non-inverter..

An inverter only functions for starting a electrical motor with lower amps, lower torque and lower losses.. once on full load it has no relevance.. its out of the picture..

but for an aircon unit controlled via thermocouple (temperature sensor) an analogue device, that's where your inverter units gets back saving money matching power input to the load..

a conventional motor will stop/start .. there's no inbetween.. wasting heat during starts every single time..

wow.. sorry to offend you.. you're 100% correct..

bro.. There is no newer inverter design.. i only repeat what i know

Read this maybe a better explanation than me.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_conditioner_inverter

motors can be ac or dc ..

Read this maybe better for you..http://www.ohioelectricmotors.com/2015/07/what-is-the-difference-between-an-ac-motor-and-a-dc-motor/

What i mean "by pass the inverter (aka leave the inverter out of picture), and take in incoming AC current to run the motor" is just that take an inverter aircon you take the 240V 50Hz AC voltage direct to the AC motors contacts..

What you will get is a non-inverter air conditioner.. And I'm refering to both the electrical fan motor and the electrical Compressor motor.. I realise I'm explaining basic electrical systems to non technical people so I'd leave out most of the details as you need a solid electrical background to continue this discussion..

Anyway understand what you will its just that Inverters whether AC via variable frequency or DC via PWM (pulse width modulation) both improve efficiency which is otherwise loss as heat..

It holds true for electrical motors or also LED lamp drivers.. (i.e go for a PWM driver rather than a linear voltage regulator driver)

Is this you expressing a personal opinion or quoting an actual data reference ?

ok.. inverter vs non-inverter is inverter has extra circuitry, most are dry components but capacitors are basically wet,

Electrolytic capacitors (the main contributors to failed circuit boards) are sensitive to heat and moisture.. over time they dry up and starts acting crazy usually killing a transistor or at least contributing to oxidizing his next door neighbour

dust and moisture build up on a circuit board then you get stray voltages.. this small lightning strikes from surface stray voltages around that part of the board.. again hurting his teen aged neighbours

but all in all you just need to replace them ..

if you know how.. hehe..

What is the confusion?

If you are looking at initial selling price, consider this ..

Based on their Energy Star rating, for the same 9000 btu/hr cooling load, a non-inverter unit uses 1000kWh units more annually than an inverter unit. Cost wise thats (at rm0.50/kwh DM1 tariff charged by my SESB) thats rm500 more a year..

Putting it another way you save rm500 a year using inverter, that should give you enough reason..

In terms of reliability, Panasonic has a long history(more than 50 years) of good consumer products be it Air conditioners, refrigerators or ceiling fans.. They're also known as National Panasonic which is reputable and known reliable brand in Malaysia.

This guy definitely talking out of his ass.. Every single thing he types is totally unfounded or basically technically wrong..

A real danger to those of us looking for factual data to better understand our local market availability and save some money..

All of his post shows a person with no technical foundation, lacks the ability to understand and accept published online data by reputable authorities and a real danger in the way he vomits out nonsense as if its the gospel truth.

Please look up the Wikipedia definition of "Idiot" and compare it to his post.. "Supersound" = this definition..

Seriously..

I quote his past post..



Talking about EC .. Energy Commission (Malaysia)

This is wikipedia's article for our EC..

The Energy Commission (Malay: Suruhanjaya Tenaga), abbreviated ST, was created under the Energy Commission Act 2001 as a new regulator for the energy industry in Peninsular Malaysia and Sabah. The Commission was established to ensure that the energy industry is developed in an efficient manner so that Malaysia is ready to meet the new challenges of globalisation and liberalisation, particularly in the energy supply industry.

The Energy star Label for 5 stars..
Guideline on Energy Efficiency Labelling for Electrical Appliances
Based on Electricity Regulation 1994 (Amendments 2013) Regulation 101A (3)
"Any equipment that meets all the requirements of efficient use of electricity under subregulation (1) shall be affixed with an efficiency rating label in such form and manner as may be determined by the Commission."

The lab which does all this test is SIRIM.. SIRIM answers to EC and this guy is talking about EC's accuracy??!!!

Can't even string sentences for a proper answer or sequence a logical line of thought and still talk shit..

WTF ?? !! Really nonsense...

This post has been edited by Richard: May 6 2016, 04:14 PM

well said..

As pointed out per Energy Star label eg. Panasonic 1hp inverter (vs non-inverter) saves 1000 kwH a year (at 8 hrs/day, 365 days/yr), at RM0.45/kwH (>300kWh for SESB tariff DM1) that works out to RM450 savings annually.

Even if you don't use the same number of hours my opinion you will get back the cost difference within 3 yrs and then start savings from then on.. its a no brainer..

Depends on length of the copper pipe.. More refrigerant means basically higher cooling capacity which might overload the 1hp compressor..

If you experience compressor thermal overload this might be one reason..

Yes.. I actually given up trying to explain to this forum..

My English very poor.. I have trouble in communication.. i get too technical or too aggressive ..
Sad.. so I keep quiet most times..

Sizing based on rule of thumb (standard 12' high ceiling)= area x 60 btu/hr
Add 20% for large windows or glass walls exposed to sun light.

9000 btu/hr = 1 hp..

What's your room size, ceiling height, number of people in the room and heat sources into the room?

A correctly sized and located air conditioner will cool the space within 10 mins..

Means the compressor is now under sized, it has a higher volume of gas to compress making it run hotter than normal..

Yes.. keep the copper piping as short as possible..

If you're in kota Kinabalu relocation Non Inverter 1HP is rm180-rm200, Inverter is rm220-rm250..

They might just relocate the blower unit only unless you clearly instruct them what you want..