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 Aircon Discussion V3, Home Appliance

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SUSceo684
post Apr 5 2021, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(kucingfight @ Apr 5 2021, 01:25 PM)
thanks sis (not bro-i'm aware) , for the detailed feedback. did sort of see you @ FnF topic, but now at home reno

lol..basically, stick with the well known brands.
a) besides the features, are this BTU thingy mainly on paper? would the actual fact that it's running on inverter, power consumption would be around the same?
b) are AC these days have easy to remove blower model? i usually like to DIY cleaning unless there's a big issue that i cannot solve.

thank you
*
a) Thanks smile.gif

In practical terms it is a matter of time only before the AC cools down to target temp for the same heat load.
As 1 BTU/hr is the heat energy needed to increase 1 pound of water by 1°F.
Assuming that the AC is properly sized for the room, at the same airflow (fan speed), if a 8000 btu/h AC may take 1hr to cool down the room to 22C, then a 9700btu/h AC may take just 47.25 minutes to cool down the room to 22C. (assumed values pluck from the sky to compare for btu and time taken only, not actual representation of time to get to 22C).

This is where most people complain the lesser-btu AC is slow to cool down the room (as the time difference expands for lower target temp say 18C)..

If you set it around an easy-to-achieve warm temperature like 25C on a not-so-hot weather day, time difference to achieve the 25C not very big.

On a super hot summer day where outside is 38C and target temp is low say 18C to cool that 20C delta might take very long with a small btu performance aircond.

If the room has high heat sources like kitchen or server room then it may take longer to achieve the target temp.
If the aircon is undersized such as trying to use a 1hp for banquet hall, it will not save power as it can never achieve the target temp in a reasonable timeframe even though it is running 100% all the time.

Power consumption generally about the same since it will slow down to the slower setting once target temp is reached, assuming all else equal but smaller compressor motor in the 8000btu unit.

besides the additional features like ioniser or fine filters (nanoe nanox, titanium filter etc) - Overall power consumption will be the around the same for inverter (given the same heat load).
Whilst inverter is essentially a gearbox for the aircon, nominal btu is measured assuming the AC operate on normal mode (not turbo mode).

Turbo mode variables will be how much one can redline the compressor motor (heat pump) and IDU fan blower safely without blowing up, usually limited by the either the motor design and/or cooling coil thermal performance.
Generally turbo mode adds 10pc btu capacity to the nominal btu; but this is "generally" as some AC already quite close to redline even on the nominal btu so the diff between nominal and turbo btu may be very small.
Some mfg turbo cool mode are timer limited to say 20-30mins so that it minimise wear and tear on these parts.

b) Most of them are fairly easy to clean for the filter.
For the blower, aka "merry go round tube". Most AC need to remove the IDU plastic cover with few screws to access the blower fan.
For the angle fins, Mitsu Easy clean is pretty easy thumbup.gif
For the IDU cooling coil some have Frost Wash/self clean mode. But for AC with fine filter (PM2.5) like Daikin Smarto, Pana Nanoe, they prolong the interval that you need to clean the IDU coils.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Apr 5 2021, 02:03 PM
boulala
post Apr 6 2021, 02:29 AM

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hi sifu. need help. Panasonic XPU18WKH(RM2900) vs XU18VKH(RM3200). does it worth it to spent the extra for XU18WKH? or should i go for Daikin FTKH50(RM3380). Price after cashback with installation.
kucingfight
post Apr 6 2021, 12:27 PM

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credit where credit's due. hats off.
u sound more like a HVAC technical person in person

Anyways i went for midea inverter MSXS-10CDRN8 and N13 . off course, price was a factor



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SUSceo684
post Apr 6 2021, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(boulala @ Apr 6 2021, 02:29 AM)
hi sifu. need help. Panasonic XPU18WKH(RM2900) vs XU18VKH(RM3200). does it worth it to spent the extra for XU18WKH? or should i go for Daikin FTKH50(RM3380). Price after cashback with installation.
*
XPU18WKH
19,000 (3,750-21,200) btu
1,550 (290-1,850)W
nanoe™X, nanoe-G, Inverter, ECO+A.I., R32 Refrigerant, AEROWINGS

XU18VKH
18,500 (3,750-20,500) btu
1,440 (290-1,700)W
AEROWINGS, nanoe™X, nanoe-G, Inverter, ECONAVI, R32 Refrigerant.

FTKH50AV1LF
19,000 (6,000-21,200) btu
1,570 (420 – 2,200)W

Go for the 19k btu either Pana XPU18WKH or Daikin FTKH50AV1LF for better cooling.
The XU18VKH more power saving but max cooling performance lose to the XPU18WKH. Only diff is whether the ECONAVI worth 300 more over ECO AI (to me is nice to have only)

Since price XPU18WKH cheaper go for this. thumbup.gif
boulala
post Apr 6 2021, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 6 2021, 12:28 PM)
XPU18WKH
19,000 (3,750-21,200) btu
1,550 (290-1,850)W
nanoe™X, nanoe-G, Inverter, ECO+A.I., R32 Refrigerant, AEROWINGS

XU18VKH
18,500 (3,750-20,500) btu
1,440 (290-1,700)W
AEROWINGS, nanoe™X, nanoe-G, Inverter, ECONAVI, R32 Refrigerant.

FTKH50AV1LF
19,000 (6,000-21,200) btu
1,570 (420 – 2,200)W

Go for the 19k btu either Pana XPU18WKH or Daikin FTKH50AV1LF for better cooling.
The XU18VKH more power saving but max cooling performance lose to the XPU18WKH. Only diff is whether the ECONAVI worth 300 more over ECO AI (to me is nice to have only)

Since price XPU18WKH cheaper go for this.  thumbup.gif
*
Thank you boss for the recommendation.
Ecomajestic909 P
post Apr 6 2021, 07:23 PM

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Aircon sifu

There is 2 BTU rating for Mitsubishi aircon ... which should I refer to ?
Mitsubishi aircon any good? Is there a better choice. Looking to buy 2 x 1HP + 2x 1.5HP and 2 x 2.0HP all Inverter R32

user posted image

I appreciate your advise..... biggrin.gif
mhyug
post Apr 6 2021, 08:25 PM

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thanked as a bro since i myself not sure if the "male /female " tag accurate or not but either way thanks for the in depth points. Did you study HVAC back in UNI or something biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by mhyug: Apr 8 2021, 11:25 AM
SUSceo684
post Apr 6 2021, 11:06 PM

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QUOTE(Ecomajestic909 @ Apr 6 2021, 07:23 PM)
Aircon sifu

There is 2 BTU rating for Mitsubishi aircon ... which should I refer to ?
Mitsubishi aircon any good? Is there a better choice. Looking to buy 2 x 1HP + 2x 1.5HP and 2 x 2.0HP  all Inverter R32

user posted image

I appreciate your advise..... biggrin.gif
*
The 8871, 9554 btu one ie the rated capacity is the (nominal) btu
The one with (lowest-highest btu range) is the operating range - where the highest figure here is what we refer to as "turbo" mode or essentially redlining the AC for fastest possible cooling.

Usually for comparison we'll see the nominal btu as running the aircon on turbo mode 24/7 does wear out the components (compressor, IDU blower motor) prematurely (also this is why mfg put a countdown timer so the max on turbo is around 20-30mins then it will switch back to normal mode).

QUOTE(mhyug @ Apr 6 2021, 08:25 PM)
thanked a s a bro since i myself not sure if the "male /female " tag accurate or not but either way thanks for the in depth points. Did you study HVAC back in UNI or something biggrin.gif
*
Most welcome, not a bro, actually not in the HVAC line myself but I do have friends working in/worked before in OYL, Danfoss, cold chain logistics, solar powered aircon systems with the solar panels and the like.
In the past I used to sell sensors and inverters for industry/production lines. There one needs to pore over spec sheets a lot to propose something usable for "like for like" replacements (especially for sensors).
Ecomajestic909 P
post Apr 7 2021, 11:16 AM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 6 2021, 11:06 PM)
The 8871, 9554 btu one ie the rated capacity is the (nominal) btu
The one with (lowest-highest btu range) is the operating range - where the highest figure here is what we refer to as "turbo" mode or essentially redlining the AC for fastest possible cooling.

Usually for comparison we'll see the nominal btu as running the aircon on turbo mode 24/7 does wear out the components (compressor, IDU blower motor) prematurely (also this is why mfg put a countdown timer so the max on turbo is around 20-30mins then it will switch back to normal mode).
Most welcome, not a bro, actually not in the HVAC line myself but I do have friends working in/worked before in OYL, Danfoss, cold chain logistics, solar powered aircon systems with the solar panels and the like.
In the past I used to sell sensors and inverters for industry/production lines. There one needs to pore over spec sheets a lot to propose something usable for "like for like" replacements (especially for sensors).
*
Thank you for your advise... much appreciated...... notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif

Mitsubishi can buy or totally avoid ?
SUSceo684
post Apr 7 2021, 12:49 PM

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QUOTE(Ecomajestic909 @ Apr 7 2021, 11:16 AM)
Thank you for your advise... much appreciated...... notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif

Mitsubishi can buy or totally avoid ?
*
(1.0HP)
MSY-JS10VF 8,871 nominal / 9,212 turbo btu / 920W rated power confused.gif
MSY-JS10VF2 9,554 nominal / 9,895 turbo btu / 910W rated power
MSY-GR10VF 9,554 nominal / 11601 turbo btu / 770W rated power

There seems to be two model of 1.0hp JS series - MSY-JS10VF and MSY-JS10VF2 https://www.mitsubishielectricmalaysia.com/...ochure-bpzw.pdf

https://www.mitsubishielectricmalaysia.com/...ochure-bpzw.pdf


Comparing with Hitachi RAS-XH10CKM BTU/h : 9,210(3,070-11,260)
nominal 9210
turbo 11260
800W rated power

Comparing with Sharp AHX9VED2 9700 (3070 - 10000)
nominal 9700
turbo 10000
890W rated power

The Mitsu GR can buy, the JS seems to be almost redline already even in normal mode.



JS without VF2, nominal btu looks underpowered. It will work but cooling may take longer if your room is large. If the room after putting a bed no space to walk around then still OK.
MSY-JS10VF2 with VF2 looks more correct.

This post has been edited by ceo684: Apr 7 2021, 12:58 PM
Ecomajestic909 P
post Apr 7 2021, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(ceo684 @ Apr 7 2021, 12:49 PM)
(1.0HP)
MSY-JS10VF 8,871 nominal / 9,212 turbo btu  / 920W rated power  :confused:
MSY-JS10VF2 9,554 nominal / 9,895 turbo btu / 910W rated power
MSY-GR10VF 9,554 nominal / 11601 turbo btu / 770W rated power

There seems to be two model of 1.0hp JS series - MSY-JS10VF and MSY-JS10VF2 https://www.mitsubishielectricmalaysia.com/...ochure-bpzw.pdf

https://www.mitsubishielectricmalaysia.com/...ochure-bpzw.pdf
Comparing with Hitachi RAS-XH10CKM BTU/h : 9,210(3,070-11,260)
nominal 9210
turbo 11260
800W rated power

Comparing with Sharp AHX9VED2 9700 (3070 - 10000)
nominal 9700
turbo 10000
890W rated power

The Mitsu GR can buy, the JS seems to be almost redline already even in normal mode.
JS without VF2, nominal btu looks underpowered. It will work but cooling may take longer if your room is large. If the room after putting a bed no space to walk around then still OK.
MSY-JS10VF2 with VF2 looks more correct.
*
Thank you for your valuable insights... this certainly helps....
mhyug
post Apr 8 2021, 11:28 AM

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just before i start paying for the sharp ones, any other fellow members have experience with the sharp air conditioners? hows the reliability?

i know reliability is much tied to how we in turn use the equipment, maintain the equipment etc. so what's the other user experience on it.
Bestsolution
post Apr 9 2021, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(Jo@NJS @ Mar 27 2021, 02:39 PM)
Good idea bro, gonna test it out tonight. I have stuffs like Tower fan, lamp light and 2-3 others all connected to wifi...By the way, how did u connect yours? Manually or scan barcode? I checked the barcode inside the unit, cannot scan...Warranty car also cannot haha
*
I was browsing through youtube for the guide and found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9cKEFpPXUo

one of the reply by daikin to connect is

scan from warranty card

1. Power supply to aircon is switched ON
2. Bluetooth on your Phone is ON
3. Location on your Phone is ON
4. Using Network 2.4 GHz only (Cannot use 5G Network)
5 Key in 2.4 GHz Network name manually without clicking the search network button.



This post has been edited by Bestsolution: Apr 9 2021, 10:08 AM
justapawn
post Apr 9 2021, 10:18 AM

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QUOTE(mhyug @ Apr 8 2021, 11:28 AM)
just before i start paying for the sharp ones, any other fellow members have experience with the sharp air conditioners? hows the reliability?

i know reliability is much tied to how we in turn use the equipment, maintain the equipment etc. so what's the other user experience on it.
*
In my opinion, Sharp is a very uncommon brand.
If you want reliability, you can choose common brand like Daikin/Panasonic/Samsung....
If you want cheaper, go for China brand like Midea/Hisense/Gree.....
Musikl
post Apr 9 2021, 10:33 AM

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May I know what's your take on a good btu for a 2hp?
Also getting mixed recommendation from sites on what hp to use on the living room 3.3m(w) x 8m(l) x 2.7m(h). some say 1.5hp, some 2hp.
Thinking just to get a 2hp cause will only use when guests are around, so possibly 4-8ppl in the space.


» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
justapawn
post Apr 9 2021, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(Musikl @ Apr 9 2021, 10:33 AM)
May I know what's your take on a good btu for a 2hp?
Also getting mixed recommendation from sites on what hp to use on the living room 3.3m(w) x 8m(l) x 2.7m(h). some say 1.5hp, some 2hp.
Thinking just to get a 2hp cause will only use when guests are around, so possibly 4-8ppl in the space.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Hi, Musikl, this is a very good calculator for cooling load estimation. Please find the link attached below:

https://www.daikin.com.my/heat-calculator/
boulala
post Apr 9 2021, 11:08 AM

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QUOTE(Musikl @ Apr 9 2021, 10:33 AM)
May I know what's your take on a good btu for a 2hp?
Also getting mixed recommendation from sites on what hp to use on the living room 3.3m(w) x 8m(l) x 2.7m(h). some say 1.5hp, some 2hp.
Thinking just to get a 2hp cause will only use when guests are around, so possibly 4-8ppl in the space.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
im getting 2hp as well. compare between panasonic, daikin and acson series. end up buying the Panasonic XPU18WKH. cheaper. meet all features i want and BTU is 19000. but really difficult to find stocks nowadays.
SUSceo684
post Apr 9 2021, 11:54 AM

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QUOTE(justapawn @ Apr 9 2021, 10:18 AM)
In my opinion, Sharp is a very uncommon brand.
If you want reliability, you can choose common brand like Daikin/Panasonic/Samsung....
If you want cheaper, go for China brand like Midea/Hisense/Gree.....
*
Samseng for reliability? laugh.gif
You can judge from the shopee listings and reviews that Sharp isnt that uncommon. Or can survey around the neighbourhood if you are in a high rise.

Reliability wise also need to be taken with pinch of salt as shops will want to push whichever brand give them better rebate and commission.

There are also diff target market, some just buy for the badge but on paper spec the product is below par e.g. the D cheapest series 9000 btu only.. price like ferrari but not much diff from kancil 660.

Some product series also built for pricepoint only (extreme cost cutting for lowest possible cost); some series are better built with better spec will never win on pricepoint comparison.
SUSceo684
post Apr 9 2021, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(Musikl @ Apr 9 2021, 10:33 AM)
May I know what's your take on a good btu for a 2hp?
Also getting mixed recommendation from sites on what hp to use on the living room 3.3m(w) x 8m(l) x 2.7m(h). some say 1.5hp, some 2hp.
Thinking just to get a 2hp cause will only use when guests are around, so possibly 4-8ppl in the space.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
As close to 20000btu as possible for a true 2 ton aircon laugh.gif
2hp sometimes on price performance older R410 inverter can be a better deal as R32 2hp can be crazy expensive.
19k btu will be a good starting point.
18k btu entry level.

Do note 1.5hp is so called, in true performance 1.3 only.
2hp will be better to cool down the room with guests (more warmth from humans); typical 1.3hp is usually inadequate unless run in turbo mode. For best in class 1.3hp btu turbo about 14330 btu only. Any 2hp easily beat those 1.3 hp.
StevenL
post Apr 9 2021, 02:55 PM

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QUOTE(mhyug @ Apr 8 2021, 11:28 AM)
just before i start paying for the sharp ones, any other fellow members have experience with the sharp air conditioners? hows the reliability?

i know reliability is much tied to how we in turn use the equipment, maintain the equipment etc. so what's the other user experience on it.
*
I've used non inverter Sharp for almost 10 yrs and it gave no problem until I replaced them with inverter ALSO sharp last year. These are installed in bedrooms only which means daily driver. Units are serviced once annually and in between just make sure filters are cleaned every quarterly

Am staying in almost 2,900 sqf 2 storey house. Electricity bills has reduced by as much as 56%

QUOTE(justapawn @ Apr 9 2021, 10:18 AM)
In my opinion, Sharp is a very uncommon brand.
If you want reliability, you can choose common brand like Daikin/Panasonic/Samsung....
If you want cheaper, go for China brand like Midea/Hisense/Gree.....
*
I beg to differ, see my comments ab ve

This post has been edited by StevenL: Apr 9 2021, 02:56 PM

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