Actually God is just using the failures of Man to magnify his Grace. That is the point, not so much for David's Sake but for his only begotten Son's Sake, Jesus who personify Grace.

If you study the Bible; in the linage of Jesus Christ, God uses people who have stigma of Sin for his Son to come through. Why is it, God never uses more honorable people who are of integrity.

One of the Linage was a prostitute another was because of Lust, and Murder.

Yes just like our churches, who nowadays only care about investing in expanding the kingdom but not care about church welfare and community.

Just look at marriage and family ministry, nothing is invested into this? They think marriage counselling course is going to cover. Where are the marriage and family programs? We still need to ensure our kids are trained and counsel well in the ways of God.

Then nothing is mention about unity of the church. I feel like I am going to an alien church, I know nobody there, even people I worked with there, after a few months they forgotten who I am. We are a community, we need to stand together. We are relationship humans, we need to feel belong to a church. By saying this, means we need to be able to go to church and feel comforted by the fact we are with friends and Godly family. Only then our service of serving will be greatly improved.

But I suppose "serve, then you will be rewarded" edict seem to be the church order of the day. But they took it out of context, people of those days serve because they love Jesus not wanting something back. But churches like DUMC, are brainwashing telling people if you serve, you will get your prayer request from God, answered. Like the life partner you wish for, or the child for the barren couple, or the individual who so badly want to be a doctor. Serving won't reward you with this, serving itself is the reward. Its ridiculous to expect to find a life partner by merely serving, you need to invest time to go out and seek, if you're always serving in the weekends then what are the probabilities of you succeding in finding a life partner?

Cell group is so important but DUMC has multiplied all cgs that it is of miniscule size. Every meeting I go, there's only 4 of us. I don't even feel like I am in a community.

Still around.

My cg leader ask me to join the church membership, I refuse because I am against the church policy and I still want my tithes to go to para church organization, I don't want to make an oath to contribute all my 10% to the church who doesn't know how to fully utilise it. I was treasury for the church before, so I don't like the way funds been distributed around.

Looks like no church wedding.

sorry for being rude here, but i'm kinda depressed for these few days, my phone gone haywire for no reason it hang alot well phone already old about 3 years old already...........expected major concern no phone as most of my contacts are in that phone       

Well most of my contacts are in google drive,

Talking about Samsung kinda dislike it, the call function is not user friendly

Depends on the Church but yeah, generally you have to be a member.

Most churches. They are smart, they know they want to pressure new couples to join the church so they can pressure them to make an oath to give tithes solely to the church.

Most christian couples would feel out of place, if they don't have a church marriage. Not me, I don't give a damn. I don't even have many friends at church anyway.

DUMC are close friends with SIB, so they follow the SIB marriage policies.

I believed most churches have swayed. They all want to have big building policy without even considering raising better and equipping christians. Going to church is like going to a big shopping mall filled with strangers.

Yeah at first i thought the cg church policy is so good solution to the big hall problem. But not until DUMC deliberately multiply the cgs to death. Now each cg is the size of 6 to 8, minus the family kids. I want to be in a community, feel belong to a church...why make a cg so small and not diverse?

hmmm not too sure which Church allowed that, maybe some other Christians reading this, can help suggest?

hee hee, I was like intimidated the first time I went there but I prayed for God to open the doors for me and Praise God, He opened the Choir Ministry.

Now I'm officially a member of the choir and member of the Church. It wasn't easy at the beginning because there's just so many people in there, had to respect the seniors there.

Actually just takes time. Time for them to get to know you and for me to know them. After that, we're all friends.

Dumc cgs r dead. Size 5 to 8...no diversity.

Every friday the leader delibrately ask thought provoking questions end up we all in argument over whats right then i kena indoctrinated. No fellowship..cg leader delibrately not organize new year...cny...n xmas dinner. Sien.

Every friday feel like going to debate class.

nah, I'm sure there are bigger church than ours in SEA.

Your friends can try St. Andrews church

http://standrewschurch.org.my/resources/wedding-guidelines/

It's a lovely place and many choose it as a wedding venue

He ask that way, because he wants to find out what makes me tick. Then when I say something, then his wife will have a big debate with me, she trying to change me to their ways. I not saying she is entirely wrong but its her strong personality, she is quite strong willed. My cg leader is a very successful businesman, he is rich but he has trouble dealing with his wife at times, because she is very opiniated. But i can say she has good intentions.

Change start with me? I been doing that since day 1. Sian already. Feels like a lone wolf. Calling up fellow single chrisitan guys at church for yam cha, praying for them, in turn they just treat me like ATM, tell me off to pay the restaurant bill, what cheapskate. So much for camarderie.

Have set of problems also doesn't mean they can blast it at other people. What are they? 10 yr old? I know one cg leader, just because his gf left him, he go behave like anal all over. Go into his new car, have to bath first after cycling, this one cannot, that one cannot. Then makan with him, he go and spit the satay on the table, no table manners at all, he say its the fat he don't want to eat. I belanja him satay, ask him how many he want to order. He say lets order 15 sticks. Then he eat only 4, he say "nah the rest is yours". Blady hell, is this the kind of brotherhood spirit church is expousing these days?

Yes thanks for your understanding. This is what De Luffy has been missing my point.

Yesterday I was at church, and Pastor Chris delivered yet another sermon, which makes my eyes roll. He said serving would heal us from our pains. As what you've said, if serving takes our eyes from the problem, then what's differentiate serving from going to the gym and work your body out until you can't lift your hand? Many people go for under distractions, like I know a school friend who is suicidal but he goes to the gym and works very hard to forget his problems, he work so hard, one day, he accidentaly tore his muscle, when he could not go to the gym, his hands were trembling for him to cut his own wrist.

So in the same sense, a dude relying on gym to distract him from his problems, is no different from those guys I know who serve 110% at church to forget about their own problems. The problem is still there, they are just not taking it head on. Not figuring why is there the problem in the first place. As I know one dude at church, he is a socially awkward guy, he speaks openly about jumping down from a high rise building or other means of suicide. But you know what? When the members all hear, nobody took action, just sat there during gathering and ignored him. I reported this to the leadership, they just tell me to not take him seriously. Instead, they think by putting him into serving ministries, will heal him from his problems. Apa ini man? What happen to us lately?

Have we turned into a community of uncaring and uncountable brothers and sisters towards each others?

Then there's that borderline between forgivesness and having a big disagreement with the church?

Does forgiveness mean, being a YES MAN? Become one of them? Just drop all my assertions and believes and values for the sake of being submissive to the leadership of the church? Even though its eating up my soul? Agree with them and shut my mouth?

I had an interesting discussion during bible study 2 years ago, when a long serving christian at a prominent church in Damansara Heights, was part of the treasury committee in charge of funding the new building (apparently in bukit jalil). He told us that he had a big fight with the church, because he felt the church funds wasn't able to fund the new building and the funds could be use better for other ministries such as helping the poor. But everyone at the committee was a YES MAN. They approves the project. And you've read the papers, that church in many years struggled to build that new facility, and put the church into debt. Many years it was delayed. The dude who disagreed with them, left the church. Even today, people question the waste of money use to build this white elephant because they only use the building once a month.

And I haven't even bring up City Harvest.

Somehow at yesterdays sermon, the pastor missed the mark by 1000 miles. Yes I agree with him, the great commission, he wants to expand the church to 15000 people, wants to do church planting and want the church to be a blessing to the unbelievers, want to be a community light house, salt and light of the earth !

But what about looking inward? He talks about church planting and expansion but this cannot be achieve if he keeps on stretching the cell groups. Do you know what he calls the cell group? SMALL GROUP ! Now he's like making our cg size 3 to 7 people. I heard of the saying, WORK HARD and PLAY HARD. What's wrong with having a 20 person cg? Where's the diversity? Where's the comaderie? Instead I having to go to cg meeting every friday night, and only meet up with 3 people sitting at a sofa. It feels more like shrink therapy than a cg session. And you know how the cgs r instructed to conduct the cg session? Every friday, my cg leader would come up with very thought provoking questions aftern the sermon, end up heated debate among the few of us. Then I feel like I am being indoctrinated, 3 vs 1, to come back to the "good" side. I can only say without love, the church won't win the hearts and minds of its congregation. We may just say yes to them, but we all be like a robot and just take instructions, things are not going to be implemented right.

The cg groups have already been stretched thin, and the pastor still want to multiply. Is he dreaming or what?

When I mean stretch thin, I mean not the work nor the commitments we are all taking. In fact, we would be glad to take up more and more serving at the church. But please don't take away the fellowship of the cg, for goodness sake. Why multiply the cg every 2 years? Before I even have the chance to blend and connect with others, they are already in the other cg. Shouldn't we deserve to have some fun at church, some laughter, some friendship?

Instead of having to come to cg lonely? No chinese new year dinner or celebration, we just come every friday are debate.

Forgiveness doesn't mean agree everything with the church. And how far do we submit, before the damage is done? The kind of damage that City Harvest have done. If anyone were to question the church policies, that person is regarded as a rebel, an argumentative and divisive persona and a distruptor who doesn't understand the bible.

I. Existence is in itself an essence of substance.
II. Proof is logical essence. (Explanation: Proof assumes logical essence)
III. Existence necessarily proves its essence. (Explanation: Essence is attribute of existence of substance)
IV. It follows from (III) that for substance to exist there's no condition for it other than its very essence.
V. It then follows from (II) that to prove existence of substance; logical existence is assumed. Therefore logic only proves substance of essences of the same nature of it.
VI. Therefore substance existence is of logical essence.
VII. It then follows from (III) and (VI) that substance existence couldn't be proved if it weren't of logical essence.
VIII. God (as infinite substance) is logical and its essence is proof of itself.
IX. Therefore God exists.

I think we just leave his thread alone for now n fellowship in our own lounge.

Yeah he sleeps early. Dunno, could be an overgrown adult kid.

May I know what is DUMC?

Yeah you have to type command like:  go east, go north, Look at Well, Pickup Ring, Use Ring.

Just type eat food. 

the amazing thing is the size of the games are only in megabytes, very small.

Some only couple of floppy disks.

Hack no.
On the later part where they came out with RPG monitor, there are a few nice game with graphic i.e. 4~8 color.

One of the popular one is King's Quest. You need to type in command like what unknown warrior said, i.e. go east, go north, pick this, take that.

Another one which I can't remember the name of the game, if you got frustrated and you type in the 4 letter word, you will be lock in a certain scene and cannot escape and you need to restart the game, seriously!

I got to work tomorrow.

Time to zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
see u guys again.

Just off and on your PC and reload the game. 
But you can still continue from your last journey.

Good nite
Goodnite